friday am?

Originally Posted by jim

........ The way to self launch as shown in the ozone video I think is sketchier in that the leading edge will take lots of abuse raking over shells and sand as it pivots, and at least in this video the launch seemed more powered up or hot which has attendant risks.

Believe it or not, if done properly, the kite barely gets any abuse. It takes off pretty quick.
I probably self launched and landed my RRD last year 50 times.
I have zero LE issues with it, no tiny puncture wounds or anything. Always rock solid bladder. On shells and stuff it might get some abrasion.

In terms of safety with a hot launch. - The kite is at the edge of the window, so it's the opposite of a hot launch. Sometime I have to walk upwind, to make the kite more downwind, just for it to launch. It's not anything like launching a kite in the water, LE down, downwind of you.
The biggest risk, by far, with self launching a bridled kite is a bridle tangle. If it is tangled, as you launch it could do some bad stuff. I recommend making sure your lines are "clear" before launch. That's the real threat with this method. I have only had bridle problem once in maybe 150 launches, but it could have been bad if I didn't have my finger in the QR, ready and waiting, during launch.

On a fine sandy beach, this method poses zero threat to the kite, imo.
If done right, I personally prefer it to leaving a kite tied to an anchor.
To each his own, though.

[Sean B]

I self-landed my 16m the other day at Sand Key and it shredded the leading edge. Unless it's powder, the LE is gonna take abuse. I need to acquire some sail tape just to patch all of the cuts up, which are now leaving the bladder exposed. Best way to self-launch/land, IMHO, is to attach your CL to a fixed object via an extra leash of sorts. That way the kite doesn't move around.

That sucks. I have self landed my RRD at bare minimum 50 times, probably more like 150.
Never close to a problem (as in bladder leak or pin hole or anything in LE), let alone shredding the LE.
I've done at least a thousand self landings though, so I have it fairly dialed by now and the landings are very soft.

I have noticed using a front line for self landings provides a MUCH softer as well as controlled landing than using a rear line.
Most kites require some sort of mod to the bar to use this technique though.
That's too bad. What kite was that?

[Sean B]

My '06 Green/Red Waroo. That kite has been used and abused. Maybe you can teach young grasshopper the ways of a soft landing?..

I can show you next time out.

Let me take a pic of the front line mod (it's very straightforward). Should be done in a few minutes.
Just make sure the front lines end up exactly the same length after the mod.
Quite a few of the local guys have modded their bars like this.

All the mod requires is a ring at the end of one of your front lines, as in the pic. I usually look around for an old pig tail or something similar, and use it with a ring you can get at West Marine.
Don't forget to make sure both front lines are exactly the same length.
It's easy to do this on the Best bar, because of the mini-leader with knots, and the fact you can untie and make knots different lengths.
You could just use the existing semi-leader with the ring, but I like to avoid any knots that might get hung up. (ignore my Q-line, btw, it's just what I use. It's not necessary at all for the mod)

With the mickey mouse ears of the Best bar, it doesn't matter which "side" you modify.
It's a good idea to put a piece of tape or dark line on the other end of the line you modded. That way, when rigging, you can attach it to it's proper side without any confusion (right or left). It does matter which side you attach it to when rigging, as it will determine to which side you can land the kite on.

Always attach the modded front line to the wingtip which is going to be highest in the sky (not bottom) when self landing your kite. If your kite is off to your left (as in a port tack) when landing, this would be the right front line that you would have attached it to prior to launching, so you can self land on that side.

It won't work if you try to land it on the other side with the right front line "slipping through the ring".

The whole process will take 2 minutes to show and a half hour of words.
Not really wanting to waste that many words.
Get the mod and then you're half way there.

All it is is an o-shit approach on a front line.

[BigR]

hmmm....

the cabrinha's have had this mod built in all along.

must be I mistook what they were actually for all along..... Duh!!!!

[inferno]

naish had a front line release a few years back, thats how i used to self land my C-kites

Yeah, I think you are right Raul, Cab has had this from the get go on their bows (nice)
I am definitely not claiming to be the "inventor" of this "mod".
The fact we even have to mod bars made for bridled kites to have this does sort of puzzle me (??!!)
I guess self landing isn't a high priority in design for most, although front line for safety makes more sense to me as well. (but that's just me)

I think I do know (at least one of the first) who thought of this though -- Jeff Weiss.
He showed this modification to me about 7 years ago, back in the days before the Cabrinha Black tip, and just before the Wipi Airblast was released.

It was obvious as a better choice for self landing C kites the first time I saw him use it. Still though, landing with the rear O-shit on a C-kite wasn't all that hard (front and rear line attachments were fairly close, and both on the wing tips of the kite) so I just stuck with that approach.

The difference is ten times more obvious using the front line as opposed to rear line for self landing of the bridled kites vs. the C-kites though (at least to me) and I wouldn't even try self landing a bridled kite without the front line technique (in terms of keeping my kite 100% injury free).
The placement of the front line on a bridled kite is ideal (more toward middle of LE than on the old C-kites) for self landing, compared to a rear line. The front line attachment pulls the nose of the kite down to the ground and points the kite into the wind.

The rear line just pegs down the back of the kite, letting wind under the LE and not pointing the LE into the wind.
The only way I feel confident landing with a bridled kite with the rear O shit is to "crash" the kite and force it to stay, not so good for your kite.
Maybe that's what is happening to you on your landings, Sean.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I fully anticipate seeing you guys carrying your 3 foot tent stakes and doggie anchors out to the beach still!

[Sean B]

Originally Posted by Skyway Scott

Maybe that's what is happening to you on your landings, Sean.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I fully anticipate seeing you guys carrying your 3 foot tent stakes and doggie anchors out to the beach still!

Yeah, pretty much. I'll give that mod a try, but I still plan on using doggie anchors for the most part! haha