An Idea To Avoid Bans?

[ricki]

I have a theory about kiters that threaten our access to ride often by riding too close to shore, bathers and in out of bounds swim areas. They largely fall into three categories and I hope constitute the vast minority of kiters;

Tier 1: Experienced often mature, sometimes young, even pro rider hard cases who know better, have been warned perhaps for years, are aware of the consequences of poor kiting behavior but still do it anyway, because ....? (I have no clear idea why.) Kite looping over the beach & landing in inches of water in restricted areas and showing little concern for bystanders or the future riding prospects for the rest of us. Tier I largely through the kiting culture encouraged at times by the Industry have been role models for other kiters for years. I hope their numbers are FEW, to be determined in time.

Tier 2: Newer kiters, with a fresher outlook perhaps copying Tier 1's poor riding behavior and bringing even more heat down on our ability to ride free and at will. They may have been following other more advanced kiters lead and may not have thought about the trouble certain riding habits will bring down on all of us. There may be more of these type of riders but I HOPE they are more likely to rethink things based upon reason and some pretty strong arguments.

Tier 3: Largely clueless newbies who have done little research, taking little to no pro lessons (quality lessons perhaps not at all) and are out "experimenting" with full sized kites on the beach and water, rigging way too big in strong winds, bashing kites down among bystanders, lacking harnesses, largely trying to get hurt or at least hurt all our abilities to ride. They are clueless and perhaps they may not know any better and will succumb to reason and persuation (we can hope).

Then there is the rest of us, the VAST majority I hope, who don't cause problems knowingly or even unknowingly but still stand to lose our privilege to ride by the actions of the trio listed above. We are losing it right now in fact.


So, the idea consists of the following:

A. Shoot video and post clips of Tier 1 excesses and poor behavior. Identify place and time, leaving out identities (?) or maybe not. If identities are given they had better be easily identifiable in the video. Ideally, let the video do most of the talking. Show points of reference, i.e. buoys, shoreline, bystanders, etc.. to help tell the story visually. Please provide raw, unedited video clips to provide a record of what actually happened without embellishment. Do not make claims or complaints that are not supported by video as that won't go anywhere except perhaps to the discard pile. This puts a burden on the videographer but without a picture saying a "thousand words" I think the exercise could easily degrade into a he said she said pissing match which won't be tolerated on here.

B. Hopefully after drawing attention, likely global attention the stars of these videos might start to think things over. Peer pressure can be a hard thing to deal with when it is pressuring you to change for the good of all. Also, it is likely in time, perhaps not too far in the future either that some may be arrested and/or fined by the authorities further adding weight to things.

C. Tier 2 would be reasoned with and perhaps even included in the video clips described above. Ideally many will see the light and alter habits to keep us all flying through simple reasoning without any staring role in a video. If not, there are always potential legal consequences for them as well.

D. Tier 3 would be dealt with in a similar fashion to Tier 2, ideally with a bit more orientation. I would even be happy to generate some telling handouts highlighting some of the realities of our great sport particularly when taking on in a vacuum of knowledge and training. The handouts would establish the stoke and also the critical need for Quality Pro Instruction. Specific instructor identities would not be provided in the handout but resources on how to find and interview instructors would be included.

No one wants anyone to get into trouble with the law, deal with fines or public ridicule. Then again, if a person knows the consequences of their actions, has been warned, understands how it may severely harm the rest of us and still shows poor riding behavior(i.e. breaking the law riding inside swim zones, etc.), it seems only fair to let things go where they will. It will be a challenge for the videographers to get good, compelling clips without influencing rider behavior during filming with a huge side benefit of improving the odds that we all will still have a reasonable quantity of places to ride in years to come. Also, NOTHING in this is against extreme, responsible riding, just the opposite. Kiters are encouraged to go extreme within their abilities as long as their actions don't harm others directly or otherwise, ideally well offshore. If there wasn't a problem, none of us would have to think of solutions or even consider stuff like this.

It is just an idea, but what do you think?

[ricki]

Another possible downside is the video clips might be used by antagonists and authorities against our sport. True. Then again, in Pompano right now there are at least two residents making a second career out of video documenting and taking copious notes on "offenders." This information is likely deluged on authorities to go along with what may be a continuing stream of complaints. I suspect this may be done elsewhere it doesn't take much to document things if you are motivated to do so. So what is better? Going hands off, like we've been doing or trying something different?

Also, I don't even like bringing this up but creative video editing to create damning circumstances as opposed to merely documenting them would be very bad. It would bring the whole effort down like a house of cards and perhaps our access with it. So, don't bother editing this stuff, ok? Some video experts may well be looking in on some of the clips to try to keep things fair.

[ricki]

I would think one way this might be done would be to upload clips to youtube with few key words to limit the ability to find the clip by searching (and unwanted attention) and then post the links here. Is this idea worth pursuing, as is, with modifications? What do you think?

I think we need firm agreements first. A video of a behavior that hasn't been firmly agreed to as "non-acceptable" will lead to the "what's wrong with what I did" responses, I think. Kind of like Man lifting (proper term?) videos and those responses.

For me personally Rick, I feel that the distance issue is our Achilles heel and the one that needs the most discussion and agreements. I really want to hear what yourself, Neil, Kent and others have to say tonight about that issue. I think each scenario is different, but in places like FL, HI, TX, where multiple users are in the water and swim zones exist, those scenarios need some further discussion (for FL anyway).
I think many of us are looking for guidance and inputs from guys like Neil et. al. that have been around forever and seen it all. I feel like this a real turning point in time and literally have my fingers crossed for positive outcomes.

[ricki]

Hope to get some input on this from Neil, Kent and others in the Industry. I would like to hear their thoughts on this as well. We'll likely talk about it in tonight's Podcast.

I am concerned about Florida right now and am not concerned about a bewildering glut of clips at present either.

The most common problem that I have heard about worldwide for years leading to bans is riding in out of bounds swim areas. Not all nearshore areas are out of bounds or contested however. More often than not they are in guarded or restricted areas and are COMMON knowledge with local kiters. If in doubt, focus on that.

I don't want to suffer paralysis by analysis, a common engineer's malady with pursuing new ideas however. If in doubt, throw up a trial and see how it flys. For all concerned though it should be a good one, as unassailable as possible.

Over to the rest, what do you think?

[OttoNP]

I think you guys need to get it down to the individual level. Have the city start giving tickets to kiteboarders who are dangerous. A similar analogy is waterskiing/wakeboarding on inland lakes, if a person skis too close or jumps someone, they get a ticket. Do the same for kiteboarding, easy enough...and it creates revenue for the city. I'm sure the city has some kind of boat they could use to jet out and ticket the offender, as long as the ticket is expensive enough, the city will make money on it.

I would guess that cities go to the ban approach because it is easier for them and they don't care, but pointing out the money they would make in tickets may help change their mind. If they do enact a ban, how do they enforce them, same way right? so either way, they have to patrol and without a ban their income will likely be better. Everyone wins...

I think the other ideas are good as well, but this would be the most effective if the city agreed...

Nick

[b-rad]

Kiteboarding needs to be regulated like other water activities.

Boaters (in Florida) must be 22 years of age or have a Safe Boater's License to operate a boat (anything over 9.9 hp) within state waters. IN ADDITION, boat operators must adhere to all safety rules and regulations...no wake zones, no motor zones etc...

PWC's have a section in Fla law devoted to them: among other things: must wear a uscg pfd, must be of age or have boaters license AND must adhere to all waterway laws and regs.

Kiteboarding is still free reign because it is still new. It will be eliminated if the users (us) don't get with lawmakers in order to regulate our sport.

We don't really need a bunch of video slamming ourselves and our sport...I just think that will do more harm than good...and it WILL get into the wrong hands...

We work with the "Near Shore Water Committee" here in Islamorada to educate lawmakers as to the needs of our sport and to ensure that there is space for kiters in Islamorada.

Rick...you are the man to do this (or at least lead the charge...we will all help). We need to sit down with FWCC and propose some basic regulations. If we wait and let them do it...it will suck. (like the deal in Hawaii right now...that wasn't proposed by a kiter)

The regulations need to be simple and easy to enforce. They need to be enforceable by non-kiters...just as pwc laws are enforceable by non-pwc users.

For example:

No kiting in clearly marked swim zones. (ticketable offense)
No unsafe Kiting (just like no "unsafe" boating)
No intoxicated kiting etc...you get the point.

What I think is best right now...is...to self regulate our sport, but from a state level...not the bro beach level...it's not working...

If municipalities knew that FWC was on it...they would relax...

FWC has divisions for different water users...maybe we would benefit from a kiteboarding division? or advisor...like you, Rick.

All big sports are recognized on a lawmaker level...it doesn't limit the sport, it allows the sport to continue...

people might say no...I don't want to get a ticket for kiting wrong...but at least you were kiting...

[b-rad]

maybe kiting is really growing up-

[ricki]

Interesting proposition Brad, one worth looking into more deeply. Still, how long do you think it would take to get something like that into existence with officers trained, rules encoded and distributed and necessary public awareness established by government? None of this is to say it isn't worth pursuing but to suggest that it may take some months or longer to bring about. In the interim what about trying something like the videos. Videos are already being used by parties hostile to our sport. What about using them to try to protect our sport? I'm not married to the idea of videos but feel we need to do something effective, soon. Set up the videos online to where they can't be copied, even list restricted terms of use. If the idea doesn't show positive results in a few months, delete the videos and perhaps the threads too. It doesn't take a bill, or governmental delays to do something at the grass roots. It just takes a common desire and activism. Time seems short at least for our area.

[b-rad]

true...

I'm all for "catching someone in the act" as long as we protect it and get it into the right hands...and use it only for our good...maybe we should just kind of do it and not really promote it...kiters will spread the word of someone messing up just fine...


And as for FWC...I don't think it will really take that long...

Are you familiar with their "Temporary Boater License" program?