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  #51  
Old 02-28-2008, 02:10 PM
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Erick Erick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRyder View Post
One of my friends does not use the ring on the back of the harness to secure his leash, and instead attaches it around the spreader bar. That way he does not get pulled backwards when the leash is the only thing attaching you to the kite. I was getting pulled backward last week past the second sand bar and had to reach back to fully release the kite after I had pulled the first one to stop the kite from looping. Another buddy got dragged several hundred feet, and he was pulled backward as well, as he had attached his leash to the back of his harness. I am planning to move my harness attachment to the spreader bar as well.
I believe that makes full sense to me if you are not into doing handle passes.
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  #52  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kent View Post
Todd,

Thanks you beat me to it. Having refreshed myself with the older manuals, they do clearly indicate how to avoid accidents like the instance here. Tom, yes of course all of Cabs manuals are online and easy to download.
Kent
fwiw, it was Scott who was asking about the manuals.
  #53  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:21 PM
WindRyder WindRyder is offline
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Hey, Erick. It's Scary Harry who I was referring to. And he does not do handlepasses.
  #54  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:35 PM
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kent. thank you for sharing your expertise with us. I know I learned something out of it. I think that (at least for me) the general feeling about it being unavoidable was not the injury, but the equipment failure/kitemare. It seems the "world class athlete" had done a thorough job at inspecting his equipment before riding, making the bridle snap "unavoidable".

As for what transpired after that, it turns into fight or flight that is when the practice will hopefully default as "instinct" when its time to use the safety systems. Perhaps people should have an order of which saftey to deploy when.

Your candid approach is backed by a lot of education and experience, making it even more influential to those that have learned something from this. Thank you for your suggestions and insight.
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  #55  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRyder View Post
Hey, Erick. It's Scary Harry who I was referring to. And he does not do handlepasses.
Oh ok, not for me baby! LOL
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  #56  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Gris View Post
Bill,

I was going to try out a waist harness. I think I will stay with a seat harness for now. Is there anyway to prevent those waist harnesses from spinning around?

Gris
Gris,

The only reason he got spun around is because his leash was attached to the handlepass leash attachment point on the mystic waist harness. The harness didn't actually spin around his waist but rather spun BILL around from the pull of the kite. Just FYI.
  #57  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:07 PM
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Sorry Kent...do I know you? I am an educated and intelligent guy who happens to hold a masters in sports psychology as well. Your pseudo lecture and reprimand of my actions taken in an extreme situation are certainly not appreciated, even with your attempt to disguise them as concern or to "educate" us "less qualified and less experienced" kiteboarding enthusiasts.

Either you are a complete moron or you have issues with writing correctly. You should either take your post off the forum OR edit it so it reads properly to avoid a lawsuit IF you do indeed have some affiliation with Cabrinha. A couple of the most experienced and dialed in riders/instructors I just spoke with agree.

#1 The Mystic harness with the handle pass system, is set up as your QR system AT THE HARNESS. I relocated mine to the front of the harness, on the spreader bar attachment per two professional riders and two professional instructors. It is functional and serves in place of the QR on the leash, at the harness. I use CAB leashes for all of my other SBs and Best leashes for Best kites and SS for my Fuels. I know a dozen guys who ride hooked up the same way as I do. And I have never had a problem. The harness spun around, taking the QR on the harness of the Mystic in back of me, not readily accessible under the circumstances.

I just did a test with my knife from the Mystic harness. It took me 8 seconds TO CUT THROUGH MY LEASH. And this was in perfect, stand up, not stressed out, no water being pushed down my throat and no impending doom of death looming near the highway, being dragged at 25 mph. No chance you could do it this fast in the situation I was caught up in.

#2 Your second point here is confusing and poorly written. IF you represent or work for Cabrinha, then YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T RIDE CABRINHA KITES, or you simply can't convey your points properly. This is an SBI - Hooking in ABOVE OR BELOW QR makes no difference when the kite is doing fully powered up loops and the leash is stretched out about four feet (I just measured it). YOU CAN NOT REACH THE QR AT THE CHICKEN LOOP EITHER WAY. The difference between hooking in ABOVE OR BELOW as you said is exactly 1 and 1/2 inches from each other. IF you are hooked in BELOW - WHERE I WAS HOOKED IN and WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE - YOU STILL CAN NOT ACCESS THE QR WHEN THE LEASH IS STRETCHED OUT FOUR FEET AND PULLING LIKE A TRUCK AT 25-30MPH. Your biggest mistake is that hooking in ABOVE the QR as either you are attempting to say (it's very unclear here) is death. Try it yourself. I just did. I attached the bar to a tree, got in my harness and unhooked, with my leash attached ABOVE the QR as you said. I already knew what would happen and you should too. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTIVATE THE QR BY SLIDING IT FORWARD/UP/TOWARDS THE KITE AS THE ARROW INDICATES, AS THE FORCE OF LOAD FROM THE KITE PULLING ONE WAY AND THE LEASH PULLING THE OTHER PREVENTS YOU FROM PUSHING THE QR RED DISK AWAY FROM YOU. And that is IF you could climb up a 4 foot leash powered up with all the force of the load pulling away from you. Clarify this or remove it. You may very well get someone killed otherwise.

#3 The leash was attached BELOW the QR system which is ABOVE the chicken loop. UNHOOKING WAS NOT MY "THIRD ERROR" AS YOU SO ARROGANTLY AND IGNORANTLY IMPLIED. Have you ever been hooked in being pulled at 20-25 knots? IF you have, it's caos. Much more than if you are out of the hook and their is some distance and time to survey your options as you are most of the time (for an experienced rider), up on the water, porpoising and not being spun around in circles like a top, as you are attached to the power force at your center of gravity. IF YOU ARE HOOKED IN, MOST OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT PORPOISE LIKE YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE BEING PULLED BY YOUR LEASH. Unhooking allowed me face my problem head on, upright and not spinning around.

And, for reasons of safety to others in the water, on the land, on the beach and highway, I do NOT make a habit of breaking my kite away and just "letting it fly" at the first sign of trouble. Assuming the bar and lines are intact (and you don't have a cleanly snapped bridle line like I did), most riders understand that IF they are getting worked and out of the hook, that the kite will eventually crash AND stay in the water. I have been pulled a couple hundred yards in heavy winds knowing I had distance in my favor, no obstacles in my way, no other riders near and I was not going to drown or crash into something and you ride it out and wait for the kite to come down. Of course, it can relaunch a few times and work you again and again but it will eventually come down and stay down. Some times worse than others. I can tell you, however, that NOT ONE TIME, have I thought I needed to release the kite just from it looping a dozen times or so. I hang on and ride it out, get up, shake it off, relaunch and ride away. Have you ever watched Jason Orkins, Mike Hall or Bill Parker get pummeled? I have many times but I don't seem them break away or release their kites into crowded beaches.

Finally, the Mystic release mechanism for the handle pass leash is attached perfectly on my spreader bar, in plain sight and easily accessible. UNLESS, THAT IS, IF YOUR HARNESS HAS SPUN BACKWARDS FROM THE FORCE OF BEING PULLED BY YOUR LEASH AND IT IS NOW IN BACK OF YOU WITH THAT TOO SMALL OF A RED RELEASE HANDLE NOT READILY ACCESSIBLE.

I am wasting my time here but I will finish up addressing this ridiculous post. You stated - - "Because I too have had a similar situation that I was fortunate to have walked away from, I have trained myself to carefully analyze my equipments safety features and have my action plan clearly thought out." Give me a break, Kent. Let's rig you up in your gear with your "carefully analyzed safety features on your equipment, pull you behind a truck at say 25 mph while I pound on your head relentlessly and see how well your "action plan" plays out for you.

MY OFFICIAL AND FORMAL RESPONSE TO THIS IF YOU REPRESENT OR WORK FOR CABRINHA IS THE FOLLOWING:

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING AN ARROGANT AND CONDESCENDING RESPONSE TO MY KITE FORUM POST AND WORK WITH YOUR COMPANY TO PUT OUT A CAREFULLY RESEARCHED AND THOUGHTFULLY TESTED SAFETY VIDEO WHICH COVERS ALL ASPECTS OF EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTION, AS WELL AS SERIOUS RIDER SAFETY ISSUES.

A better leash with a QR at the point of connection to my harness would have served me better - AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING. I did not count on my Mystic harness safety release for the handle pass leash to be this unaccessible during the caos of my kitemare.

Thanks for the great post, Kent.
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  #58  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:36 PM
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WyndRyder...a response to your post. I am hooked into the handle pass leash on the Mystic Warrior Harness. My red loop safety is on my spreader bar, in front, easily accessible when the harness is intact and frontwards. Spin the harness around, as my kite did attached to the handlepass leash in back and the red loop safety is now IN BACK OF YOU, not that accessible. I have it set up correctly. Not sure what you are trying to say. Unlike, you, rarely if ever do I get pulled "backwards" as you say you do, as I come out of the hook right away and hold on to the leash and porpoise across the water until the kite comes down. It's controlled caos but you are upright, facing your problem and not backwards spinning out of control, not knowing which way is up. My gear is hooked up correctly. Watch Bill Parker when he comes down after a botched handle pass or something big, unhooked. If he can't reel the kite back in right away and get's dragged, it's usually in a controlled manner, on his stomach riding it out until the kite comes down. Again, I have it hooked up correctly.
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  #59  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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This is f'ing gay. You must be kidding me Amber.?. Good lord. I won't get into it with you but thanks for the sarcasm. Posts like this are the reason I never get on here with all you experts and Holier than thou types.
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  #60  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:46 PM
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Toby...thanks for the support. I appreciate it. I am done with this bullshit. My intent was to make a simple post to say thanks to the guys who were there to help AFTER AN UNFORESEEN EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTION, followed up by a scary ride. Not to have all the experts appear out of the wood work, with their superior safety practices and unparalleled knowledge and insight. I appreciate sincerity, not sarcasm and condescending words disguised as an attempt to "educate" me. See you soon Toby.
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