anyone see..

[bayflite]

i respect and admire your view H.
i hear ya...freedom can b messy.
but freedom without rules is annarchy
i'm just a selfish dude that hates the idea of losing access due2 kitemares perped on beach go'ers.
if we show the willingness to to self regulate, that may be all we need to convince THE MAN that we will do whatever it takes to keep non kiters safe. THE MAN could care less if we hurt ourselves.
we're all in this together.
L8

[Kiteboarding Tampa Bay]

The cert. I was speaking of is something anyone can do after a few hours of training. Its really no big deal, but does create a standard to enter the sport.
I know that a test or cert. card won't prevent an accident, that guy could have been a pro, or an Ebay kook. It doesn't matter cuz its worldwide news and now the image of our sport...
Kiters have no leg to stand on when facing a ban.
A few standards would go a long way.

Self regulation creates personal responsibility for one's actions.

The only ones I can see having a problem with that, are people who ride like assholes.

Peace

[b-rad]

Originally Posted by Kiteboarding Tampa Bay

The reason you disagree is that you are a retailer, all other retailers will say the same thing you did. If you didn't have a stake in the kite biz, you might see the other side of the fence.
Nothing stops retailers from selling them a kite before they're ready. It happens all the time up here, even by non-kiters at the rest stop on the interstate. I kinda see that as a problem....
A skills test or certification card from a non retailer who is independent of the industry solves that problem.
Maybe we could sit down and chat sometime, that would be nice.

Nothing stops anyone from selling anything: guns, heavy machinery, chemicals, ultralight aircrafts...that's not the problem!!! I'm kind of tired of some people blaming kite retailers for kite accidents...that's a bunch of crap...

Any retailer selling kites would have "a stake in the biz" and need to sell stuff to keep the lights on...so respectfully, that doesn't make any sense...

It's up to the student to believe his instructor or not...if he lies to try to sell certain gear...then he sucks anyway...that's a whole different issue, and good instructors will prevail in a free society...

And if the cert. you are talking about "is something anyone can do after a few hours of training" then how useful would that be?...because after a few hours of training NOBODY is ready to go buy gear and give it a whirl. So Jonny Newbie gets his cert and goes down the road to the local (non-instructor affiliated retailer) flashes his card and buys whatever he wants with the feeling that he has the green light to fly?! Nonsense...with all due respect...

[noel]

I am going to have to agree with Brad here. WOW!! Did I say that? Anyway. I have been in this buisness for a long time and can say he is 100% right.I know a few shops that you guys all respect greatly that will sell a kite as long as you have cash in hand. I can sell you a car but I don't have to make sure you are a good driver. The shops can only relie on what is said to them. After that it is up to the individual.

After some thinking I agree with brad and noel, it does seem dumb to point the finger at the retailers when it is the person with the kite who makes a bad decision. We can buy a kite just about any where, ebay, ikite.

The person who was hurt in the storm made many mistakes that even a beginner like myself can spot in a short blurry 30 second film.

kite above head when overpowered is one error but riding during a tropical storm is clearly very dumb. As some others pointed out like Steve, Scott and others, coming into shore was probably a mistake in itself because thats where the buildings are. I think testosterone should be banned as us ladies don't have these problems haha.

One thing I don't understand is why everyone including our accident expert is saying this was unavoidable when it looks entirely avoidable by anyone with proper training and common sense?

[bigairal]

yes you are right the accident was completely avoidable

[H]

Originally Posted by Kiteboarding Tampa Bay

The cert. I was speaking of is something anyone can do after a few hours of training. Its really no big deal, but does create a standard to enter the sport.
I know that a test or cert. card won't prevent an accident, that guy could have been a pro, or an Ebay kook. It doesn't matter cuz its worldwide news and now the image of our sport...
Kiters have no leg to stand on when facing a ban.
A few standards would go a long way.

Self regulation creates personal responsibility for one's actions.

The only ones I can see having a problem with that, are people who ride like assholes.

Peace

Stay tuned, I'll expand on this later, but I'm flying out in a couple of hours and have to go.

I appreciate what you guys are doing for the safety of the sport, but in my experience tight regulations actually result in less personal responsibility. It also has great potential for causing those that don't ride or learn responsibly to distance themselves from those who do, making it harder to influence them. Also without getting the authorities involved, which would be a really bad idea, the certification wouldn't really have any teeth. Desoto could probably go to a banner system like in Miami, with our contacts in the rangers, but other beaches would not, and legally you'd have a hard time keeping uncertified people off the water. Anyway, I gotta run, but I'll share some experiences and more on this later.

H

[Kiteboarding Tampa Bay]

I look forward to it H, I respect and value your knowledge and opinion. Have a good trip!

My reference to retailers had much more to do with the non-kiters operating out of their cars- with no respect, knowledge, or concern for the local scene.
Seeing gear being sold up and down the beach at non kiting related businesses(surf shops)should be a concern of everyone. Surf shops can blow out gear to anyone and have nothing to lose if we get banned.

[jim]

Ok who saw the GMA piece? It was not good. Glad Kevin's doing better but that did not paint the sport in a good light or kiters as responsible individuals. Saying he'd do the same thing again(kite in squally weather) but just come in a little earlier, and the reason he was out in a tropical storm was the summer was really slow for wind. OUCH

[Tony]

speaks for itself - not good

http://abcnews.go.com/gma