Association Discussion

[kite-4-life]

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback and PM's!
I re-read the posts and here's some thoughts:
I have no doubt that you guys are all for it, we just have to organize and follow through. Then first meeting or two will be to find out who wants to lead the way- we need ya!
Kitespear, thanks for posting a newer kiters perspective, we have several things in place locally that makes lessons more affordable-
-Steve-O has a great intro class for 50 bucks at WSW. I direct all my potential students to the class- Its very thorough and convenient, and save valuable time when the winds blowing, for both instructor and student.
- Matt has covered the college guys and girls with his organizations.
-I do what I can for the rest of the newer kiters at free or reduced rates.
- Matt and I both offer free lessons to Fire, EMS,LEO's,Marine Patrol,Parks Dept. etc. to score some brownie points with the "officials".
We're not trying to tell people where they can ride or who to take lessons from, we want to point them in the right direction to a safe, complete lesson. Guys like the kook in SRQ trying to teach is dangerous, his students will unknowingly be a danger too, despite their effort to take lessons.
Bayflite is one of the safest kiters I know, and has always set a positive example as a kiter. I cant even imagine him shreddin' too close swimmers or surfers.
The only thing we can do about the swim zones is to be on our best behavior. Newer kiters should drag out away from shore to water start, especially in onshore winds. Even at the swim buoys, crashing your kite puts you in the swim area and requires either quick relaunch or self rescue to avoid a problem. IMO, new kiters should stick to flat water until they are proficient at riding upwind, relaunch, self rescue, which is a whole lot more challenging being dragged in deep water, waves, and current. Crab trap buoys are small, but can ruin your day.
There's also plenty of areas with no water users up and down the coast, and thats where can safely shred the waves. Behind the Bilmar, or at the Undertow is a bad place to do it and will most likely cause a problem. I sometimes ride at T.I., well south of the Bilmar and there's usually not many people around, so I am also guilty of riding in the zone.
We all do it and we just have to be smart about it and appear to care more than we do now.
(...And you guys thought E-Bone was long winded? Haha)
Later

[amber]

obviously i'm in. I'm outta town from march 29th thru April 7th so i will be unable to attend the first and maybe second meeting. I'll get with steve before i leave and make sure he has my thoughts).

Just a summary of the products we discussed for people that either weren't around last year and have no clue what we're talking about, or for those that need a reminder...

Rash guard: $$, people wanting to wear whatever they're comfortable in to ride (t-shirt, jersey, wetsuit top, etc). people will forget them at home, ordering different sizes, etc.

bands: difficult to see from far away. people will lose them and forget them at home. differentiates levels but no obvious benefits from more than a few feet away.

Ribbons: will be attached to lines and/or kite. We all borrow each others kites. If Gabe (instructor) lets me use his kite, i will be flying with a ribbon giving the impression that i'm a much more experienced kiter which could lead to assumptions which is always potentially dangerous

patch: sewn on, so that's a plus because people couldn't forget it. If there was a visitor rider from somewhere else, it would be difficult to give them the product. Finding somewhere to sew the patch on that would still it allowed to be visible from a decent distance would be tough.

tags: tags would basically be a type of laminated luggage tag. inside card would be a bright color and there is a place on the back for emergency contact information. Tag can be attached to d-ring or spreader bar or handle on harness- riders choice. Attached with rubber loop that has a decent amount of stretch in it in case its put under stress. We trade out kites and bars and boards with others and self but most people will use the same harness all day, eliminating any need to move it.

There are of course pros and cons to ANY product, but with surveys and product research, we agreed as a group that tags would be most efficient.

[kite-4-life]

The sample card was bright and durable, the self sealing pouch was a little cheesy, but would work. (The included wide plastic strap broke and the card is gone.) IMO, it needs small metal keyrings top and bottom to keep it from flapping and getting pulled off in the water.
I like the patch idea but its too hard to see, no contact info, and a visiting kiter doesnt want to be sewing on his vacation.
About 1st meeting: It is to bring together the ones who have already been helping me with K4L, and people who want to start and LEAD an assn.(Its the same stuff with a little less board structure) I am having trouble figuring out how to do this seperately
and legally
any tax or non-profit experts out there?

[Galego]

how about a wrist/ankle/necklace band with bar code or RFID tag ? its small enough to not impact anything yet its connected to the rider him/herself and not a piece of gear that can be lost, stolen, borrowed, broken, forgotten. if its made stylish enough than i/people would want to wear it with pride all the time. the bar code or RFID tag could be linked to the persons name, status or level of certification and any other pertinent info. just having it on would be id enough but the info could also be read with a small hand held tag reader.

[bryanleighty]

lets keep the churning of ideas on the specifics out of this thread for now..
i think the first steps need to be taken before the wave of "whats the exact best way to implement tags/signs/etc" eats up this thread.


thats my 2 cents.

im on board for sure..

[jakester]

I KITE PRIMARILY AT SUNSET PARK, A CITY PARK IN TARPON SPRINGS.
I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST TO THE LOCAL GUYS THAT WE POST SOME
"GUIDELINES FOR SAFE KITING", SO I SUPPORT YOUR EFFORTS. IMO, GUIDELINES, RATHER THAN RULES/REGS ARE LESS INVASIVE AND WHEN A NEW KITER COMES TO THE PARK, THEY CAN BE DIRECTED TO REVIEW THE GUIDELINES B4 THEY LAUNCH. MOST OF US AT THE PARK ARE CAUTIOUS ABOUT RIDING IN THE SWIM AREA WHEN PEOPLE ARE PRESENT (AND MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER WHEN THERE ARE SWIMMERS PRESENT) AND DO NOT LAUNCH AROUND THE BEACH-GOERS.
PERSONALLY, I AM NOT THE ENFORCING (COP) TYPE PERSONALITY AND I BELIEVE THAT STRICT RULES/REGS MAY EVENTUALLY LIMIT OUR FREEDOMS WITHIN THE SPORT. IN OTHER WORDS, IT WOULD BE EASIER TO SET SOME GUIDELINES FIRST AND THEN TIGHTEN THEM UP FROM THERE, AS NEEDED.
(ONCE YOU LET YOUR KIDS PLAY IN THE STREET, IT'S HARD TO TELL THEM NOT TO NOW). I AM ALL FOR SAFETY WITHIN THE SPORT AND I AM SURPRISED AT HOW MANY KITERS I HAVE MET THAT DO NOT HAVE THE BASIC SAFETY CRITERIA I LEARNED IN THE WSW SAFETY CLASS AND MY LESSONS...IF THIS IS GOING TO BE A TAMPA BAY AREA ASSOCIATION, MAYBE HAVING THE MEETING CENTRALLY LOCATED MAY BE A SUGGESTION
(CLEARWATER AREA??) THANKS FOR ALLOWING MY HUMBLE OPINION...

[amber]

quick note (hopefully)...sorry bryan, i agree with you that there are a lot of things to work out before the specifics but while everyone's thinking about it, the reason we weren't going to settle on wristbands was because although it identifies riders, people need to be able to see from a decent distance what color the rider is. That won't work with something so small.

What else needs to be done in the meantime? As for info about the association, is anyone involved in any other local associations we could learn from? I know there are sailing associations that exist and also waterski clubs... but the clubs are governed by a nonprofit board, so that makes it complicated again.

Any legal experts who can tell us the minimum that we need to do right now in order to make this legit? I think that there's always room for details but at this point, we need to keep things as SIMPLE as possible. No need to make things any more complicated than need be this early in the game...

[kite-4-life]

I hear ya Bryan, and thanks for the support!
You guys want simple, and I will TRY to deliver.
I have spent the whole weekend trying to figure out structuring and how to make this work around my own efforts, and relay the information in the proper manner. Too much or too little info could not be good, and a lot of my research is irrelevent to an association only. I have meeting 1 outline, goals and positions/duties ready to post, but these are some VERY IMPORTANT first questions when starting an association.
It boils down to forming and operating an association legally.

1. It can be run as a regular"for profit" business very easily and pay taxes, charge membership fees for operational expenses, etc., however donations and contributions are not tax deductible for donors. I say for profit because thats how IRS classifies it, if you're not exempt, you're a "for profit" business.
2. Or, you can apply for exemption and face the scrutiny of IRS of being a non-profit public charity. Its definitely not easy, but there are ENDLESS benefits to this, and would be able to seek major funding from many sources to grow the organization in all areas. I will spare you the details, but it is HUGE.Organizational structure is the same either way and requires joining many of the same associations to get maximum support.(more on this later)

Quite honestly #1 is our short term simple solution.
#2 is my personal goal and thats how I have researched it and structured it prior to these conversations. Either way, I will still pursue this on my own, or as a group if you like my ideas.
CHOICES:
*We can do #1 only if thats what is decided. Not a problem.
* We can do #1 and evolve into #2 and it is legal. If that is what is decided and eventually obtained, the "org." would absorb ALL operating expenses of an association, and be paid for with tax deductible donations, grants, fundraising, etc., resulting in many more benefits for "members", more positive programs, and increased image in the public eye.

*I will explain some of the benefits of #2 on the beach or at a meeting, it will absolutely blow your mind! Guaranteed success and MANY, MANY sources of funding on local, state, and federal level. Also many sources of donations from existing non-profits.

I know that my personal goals are not everyones and do not expect everyone to beleive in/support them. Thanks for bearing with my long winded posts!
We will figure this out. Let's try to sort out this question and I will post relevent meeting topics and outline jobs and duties.
Later

[Kitespear813]

Kite4Life,

I am involve with a local spearfishing club that, was facing many of the same issues that you are, I talked to the President who is also a lawer, and he suggested that you start here. This is a copy of all our club records and status, He said you could use some of the documents as templates to get started, as most of them are standard format. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet...s_filing_type=

[kite-4-life]

Thanks Kitespear!
I am still seeking a location for 1st meeting on Sunday. The location I had fell through.
I will not be posting further info on the forum.
Thanks for the posts, PM's, and emails. Your support is greatly appreciated!
Happy kiting!

(813) 389-3683 Steve
steve@kite4life.org