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  #1  
Old 03-13-2010, 11:03 AM
bayflite bayflite is offline
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Default chris moore, WTF dude?

who the f#*k do you think you are?
last night i was going through your "safety" section concerning the race and saw this:

There are buoys all along the coast, but the fastest lines are going to be inside these buoys. It is fair game to ride inside of them, but one must keep an eye out for the occasional swimmer or surfer that may be in the water.-chris moore


occasional swimmer/surfer?
trust me dude, with all the bad weather lately and spring break upon us, the swim zones will have more than the occasional swimmer/surfer today.

fair game to ride inside the buoys?
mother f'ker!!!

you better hope nothin happens in the SZ's out there today.
cuz it's on your head buddy.

it's unbelievable to me that not one race organizer bothered to point out this major lapse in judgment.
probably too f#*king busy setting up their precious f#*king demo day.
F#*king priceless man.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2010, 02:42 PM
uchuche uchuche is offline
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I guess I don't see where 70 kiters ripping through the swim zone is a problem It's not like anyone would notice.
  #3  
Old 03-13-2010, 04:32 PM
robertovillate robertovillate is offline
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bayflite,

Good that you caught this, and you have reason to be upset...but I am certain Chris would not have ignored this issue had it been brought to him before race day.

I'm not involved with this event, however I would like to believe this was an unintentional error. I am sure Chris Moore and others involved are trying to do a good job and promote acceptable race standards. I sent a PM to Chris over a week ago with some suggestions/concerns and he immediately adopted and coordinated as appropriate.

It is too bad this was not caught earlier. Perhaps next time these notices should be generated much earlier so people can proof-read and catch the inevitable gaff. I am sure it's a bit embarassing to have let this slip thru the cracks, but nobody is perfect - and thankfully there was probably no harm done today since the race probably never happened.

While it's pretty obvious why you are upset and that it is commonly unacceptable to rip thru the swim zone it's hard to enforce this sort of thing on a massive downwinder...unless you set up some specific turning marks that require all riders to head off-shore a bit to put some gauge between the race course and shoreline. If people round the proper marks and try to return close to shore they would surely lose the race by sailing a longer course...but then you also have to station an observer to verify everyone rounding properly...tough to do in heavy air and seas. So it will still probably boil down to individual integrity to some degree. But sending the fleet offshore a ways might make it obvious who is not racing the proper course, which would result in DQ.

(don't taze me bro! )

hopefully we have some better wind tomorrow

cheers
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2010, 06:28 PM
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Steve-O Steve-O is offline
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This thread has some important info left out IMO.


At no time should kites be flying over the beach during the race. Race officials will be scattered throughout the course to monitor this all important rule. With the onshore winds that are expected, this rule can easily be the demise of the challenge. Riders that break this rule will be disqualified.

There are buoys all along the coast, but the fastest lines are going to be inside these buoys. It is fair game to ride inside of them, but one must keep an eye out for the occasional swimmer or surfer that may be in the water. Please keep in mind that the buoys south of John's Pass are designated swim areas and riders must begin to stay outside of those buoys until the finish line.



The buoys north of John's pass are no wake zones for boater's. The maritime rules for the "no wake" buoys are gray at best.

The buoys south of John's pass are swim zones which the rules recognize.

Furthermore, the beaches were packed today but I saw no one in the water swimming except for a few surfers here and there and I was out there all day. The water was cold and beachgoers stayed out.

The best of the best were in attendance today, and no one had any concerns with the rules. It wasn't even a thought. In fact is was reminded to all riders to keep a good safe distance from shore.

Finally, let's not forget that this event is a charity fundraiser for All Children's hospital.

I will be interested to see what other opinions are out there. I am sure this will be a heated topic of discussion. I just hope we can leave out the name calling and personal attacks.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2010, 07:06 PM
Water Monkey Water Monkey is offline
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Default A great cause

Agreed Steve-O. I would like to thank Chris and the other organizers for all of the hard work they put in and again acknowledge that the race was for a great cause. Any other name calling and finger pointing is not necessary and definitely brings bad vibes to the great community of kiteboarders we have.

As for the race....MAN! I was the last one to de-rig as I really thought I would be able to ride by 3! Oh well, its the nature of the beast!
  #6  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:25 AM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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I appreciate the effort that goes into making a race, and really appreciate that the race is for a charitable reason. I think that is the most awesome choice of all made in years.

I realize this was probably discussed at the race site, but if the organizers want to insure riders don't enter the SZs south of JP, I recommend strengthening a few words on the rules page. It could just state that riders seen within swim zones south of JP will be DQ'd, much like the current wording states regarding kites seen flying over the beach. "Must begin to stay outside" is fairly vague. "DQ'd if seen within" (SZs) is pretty straightforward.
If all racers follow the same rules, it shouldn't affect the outcome of the race in terms of standings, one bit. (right?)

I do think staying out of the swim zones when going real fast with 70 riders is a good idea. What we are seen doing as a group definitely reflects to the public our (entire kiting community) attitude toward the SZs. If the public (there were thousands of people at the beach yesterday) sees 70 riders going 20 to 35 mph through the SZs as a group, they obviously draw the conclusion that kiters don't respect the SZ or people in it. Granted, there were few bathers in the SZs yesterday compared to a summer day, but imo, that's not even the point. If we make a conscious effort to stay OUT... regardless of the number of bathers in the water... we leave a strong impression of respect to our fellow beach goers (many of whom are kids)

As Steve-O stated, many in this race are the best of the best. I doubt they will struggle with some West Coast waves a whole 80 yards from shore for only 16 miles. These guys are use to 60 miles or more in much worse.

I assume how we are perceived as a group (for various reasons, maintaining access being one) is still important? If so, just level the race for all racers and keep them out of the SZs is my recommendation.
Stronger wording is the key. If this was already agree to anyway, strengthening the language only makes it more apparent to the public that the organizers are strongly against riders entering the SZs.
  #7  
Old 03-14-2010, 11:10 AM
kent kent is offline
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Thanks to Chris and Steve O (and others) for all of the work that you put into this event. Too bad the wind didn't work out this time. I'm sure it will come around and we will get off a large scale DW race.

Not being from Tampa, I don't really know who Bayflight is, but I'm pretty she/ he wasn't at the event. Steve O and Chris put out the correct info at the mandatory riders meeting and even indicated that there were individuals posted along the course to insure that riders were staying out of the swim areas.

I totally understand the need to protect our access by conducting ourselves in a manner that portrays us as a positive addition to the local community. I think that Chris and Steve O are doing a great job and have done just this and helped a good cause at the same time. My guys feel so strongly about this that we hit the road at 4:30 a.m. to attend.

Next time there is an event like this in your area, I'd stop by to check it out. I can see how some wording in the written rules may have lead to confusion, but I'm not sure what the heck is in the water up there. The Tampa forum is the only one on the FKSA that individuals can't seem to communicate like humans. A simple PM would suffice and would keep people from looking like cavemen. If you can't get through on a PM then maybe take it to the forum to discuss with other local riders.

We have gotten pretty heated at times with access issues in Miami and we have all (myself included) acted like animals when communicating openly. I will say however that this has generally happened after several meetings, emails, etc., and parties felt the need to take it public for support. Good luck up there and filter your water.

See you guys on the newt NW wind day for the race.
  #8  
Old 03-14-2010, 06:00 PM
Whitey Whitey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent View Post
The Tampa forum is the only one on the FKSA that individuals can't seem to communicate like humans. A simple PM would suffice and would keep people from looking like cavemen. If you can't get through on a PM then maybe take it to the forum to discuss with other local riders.
Well put! I'm glad I did not post my first thoughts after reading the out of control overkill. Thank you for taking the time to put proper words to the situation.
  #9  
Old 03-15-2010, 10:05 AM
bayflite bayflite is offline
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kent, steve-o, i'm really not surprised at your reaction.

remember the 16 year old kid that zapped himself and almost broke his spine @ fred howard or honeymoon i think it was?

he bought that kite @ watersports west after admitting he had no proper lessons.
not online, right over the counter.

steve-o sold him the kite before the kid even had a clue.
then steve-o basically fingers the kid as the one to blame.
irresponsible at best.
negligent at worst.
your post after the incident was quite telling.

so kent,
you're one of those "crazy kitesurfers" that crazy effin chris and others look up to.
been to cuba on your kite, been to the bahamas on your kite.

tell me man, cuz i'm dying 2 know, what purpose does 70 kiters racing inside "no wake zone" buoys of a public beach serve?

do you need to take unnecessary risks in order to feel the stoke?

"hey guys, how about crossing the mouth of tampa bay and ending the race in sarasota"

wasn't that your idea kent?

don't you have a responsibility to us paranoid kiters and our concerns? i guess it's so much easier to make a joke about stuff in the water up here in st pete.

racing inside "no wake" or "swim zone" buoys down the shoreline of public beaches does more harm than good to preserve access. sorry to disagree with you scott.

i hope my friends billy, mike , matt, alex, and all the other st pete shredderz agree that the most important thing is to continue to lead by example.
-bryan
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Last edited by bayflite; 03-15-2010 at 10:24 AM.
  #10  
Old 03-15-2010, 10:39 AM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayflite View Post
racing inside "no wake" or "swim zone" buoys down the shoreline of public beaches does more harm than good to preserve access. sorry to disagree with you scott.
-bryan

Bry,

You lost me on this one. I have been, and continue to be against races being run inside the SZs. It's been a vocal issue for me for years, as you know. It actually caused me quite a bit of grief in years past sticking up for it on this forum (which ultimately proved pointless). It's the main reason I deleted my account from this forum.

Even so, after seeing the concern, I thought it might help to make a simple recommendation to make the language stronger in the rules so that it was clear (to all, including you) that no racer would be permitted in a SZ for the GCC. So I logged in as "Bob". Not sure it really matters who makes the rec, a good rec doesn't depend on a guy's name (I would hope not).

Instead of a few guys just saying something like "seems easy enough, just change a few words and stay out", it seems it's gotten nowhere but Kent throwing (more) names after Chase made the obvious statement that this was a bad idea, and now this.

I am beginning to wonder if someone hi-jacked your account as a (twisted) joke to get things stirred up.

Whatever, this forum has always proven useless to me at best, more of an annoyance than anything else. I won't make the mistake of checking it or logging on again.
(Scott)

Last edited by Unimog Bob; 03-15-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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