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  #51  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:05 PM
Skyway Scott
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Kevin, I can't remember you offering positive or useful input to this forum for over 2 years. It's always some anti-authority speech when we are trying to reach agreements amongst ourselves. Can you just do us a favor and let us discuss this without interruption? If you don't want to follow the agreements we reach the one day a year you come out, that's fine.
Just let us discuss what we are going to do the other 364 days that we interact as a community without your presence. Thanks.
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  #52  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:06 PM
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BigR BigR is offline
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Kevin Wrote:
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My father is a firefighter/ems and my mother was a nurse,
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The fact is, just because you have that piece of paper, doesn't make you any better than an instructor that doesn't. Doesn't mean your any worse either.


Cool, Does that mean that I can go ahead and fight fires and tend hospital patients right away? I prolly don't even need to take any more school exams since thats just a waste of paper. Jeez, how stupid could I have been to get a degree?
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  #53  
Old 08-21-2007, 10:21 PM
popeye
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We can't have a debate without a few people disagreeing and that's just how it is. Accept it, tell them you disagree, or to zip it, but lets not make it personal with insults and name calling. That isn't helping anything or anyone and it makes it hard for everyone to take us seriously.

Besides, OptionRyder does have one good point (whether or not he said it this time). The rules are not enforceable. You can ask and you can refuse to launch or land someone's kite but that's about all you can do legally. Fortunately I think most people would rather accept the (agreed upon) rules than stand there all day getting the stink eye waiting for a launch.

Just so you know there have ALWAYS been kiteboarding rules. You should have learned them during your first lesson(s).
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  #54  
Old 08-21-2007, 11:08 PM
Optionryder420 Optionryder420 is offline
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Niether is a scuba C card... but that doesn't mean it's worthless.
This is one thing that came to mind when I made that statement, my parents scuba dive, but I'm not into it and know nothing about it.


BigR, you missed my point. Firefighting is and nursing are monitored by the government, as is driving. You need certain licensing and qualifications to do both of these. Teaching kiting, is NOT. If you get caught nursing without a license you will be in trouble. You won't get a job as a firefighter without being an EMS or Paramedic first and then attending the firefighters academy. You can teach kitesurfing without a license and nobody will give it a second look (besides you guys).

Scott, I'm out a lot more often then once a year, although I'm only out for an hour and I stay WAY the hell away from everybody due to these conflicts. And as you say I'm always in here disrupting THESE types of topics... maybe there's a reason? You know, maybe I strongly disagree with what everyone is trying to do. I believe I'm still in America and have freedom of speech and Rick hasn't said anything to me or censored me (it's his forum he can do as he wishes) so I think I'm entitled to my opinion just as much as everyone else.

I never said any of that stuff doesn't pertain to kitesurfing, but I know there are probably TONS of kiters that have no idea of any of that stuff and they're proficient riders. Certain warnings to said conditions are definitely needed, but I don't believe there's any reason to go so in depth of such conditions that someone should have to take notes. Honestly Steve, can you go over all the formulas related to the Coriolis effect? I think not.

I hope you guys realize the only step that can be taken to regulate kiting is an all out ban. If you really want to help take a step towards that, be my guest, I can afford tickets to kite, it's no big deal to me.

Talking inexperienced kiters down I'll agree with. If I see anyone inexperienced trying to launch and Scott, Steve, or anybody I know tries to talk the person out of it, I'll have your back on the issue. Most likely I won't see it though, I get to the beach, pump up my kite, rig up, and I'm gone. When I get back, kite is down, packed up, and I'm gone in less then 10 minutes usually. (Maybe another reason you never see me Scott)

But like Tom said, past that, there's nothing that can be done. I won't help intimidate a rider out of going, or cut someone's lines, or anything that can bring legal action against me. If you think you're saving our kiting spot by intimidating someone or doing anything that could involve the police, you better believe that spot will be gone so fast there won't even be time to post about it here.

I mean, what do you guys plan to do if someone disagrees with you about kiting and decides to go anyways?

Nothing you can do, so either pack up and leave the beach, or wait around to call the paramedics.

I'm just not sure of what you guys are even trying to get done, especially since like I already said, there's nothing that can be done.
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  #55  
Old 08-22-2007, 06:34 AM
popeye
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Well, I woke up and things really seem to be settling down and coming together.

Good job guys.
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  #56  
Old 08-22-2007, 11:58 AM
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bryanleighty bryanleighty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optionryder420 View Post
I hope you guys realize the only step that can be taken to regulate kiting is an all out ban. If you really want to help take a step towards that, be my guest, I can afford tickets to kite, it's no big deal to me.
Sorry man.. but this is complete and total BS.

come to Hood River.. I am amazed at how the community of kiters and windsurfers have got their shit together and made "rules" on how to kite safely.

Now.. enforcing these rules is another thing. I dont see any kite-cops out here.. but its more a taught mindset that "this is how WE do things around here.. and if YOU want to be a part of it you need to take the responsibility"

its not a "i am better than you" thing.. its a "we are all better if we do things this way".

I still have seen newbies doing dumb things, I have heard of 1 major kitemare here (guy has been in hospital for 4 days now).. and have witness 2 major kite-related accidents and took 30 minutes myself to drag a fallen rider back to the shore .. in fact.. i saw a guy fly a second kite to shore.. not drag it or rescue.. the dude was flying his kite while holding the CL of another kite and flying it at low altitude.. amazing.

I know you have concerns about anyone jumping too close to shore.. I agree 100000%.. I have done it myself and do my best to keep my distance.. there are a couple riders here that not only jump.. but throw down handle passes and loops right on the crowded shoreline.. I agree this is another thing that needs to be addressed.. but first thing is def. the new riders and identifying them and making them feel comfortable to come up and talk to others that are willing to take the time to help them. if they could identify US as being someone there to help, I think it would be a great start.

signs on the beach, rules, etc.. those are things that will have to happen.. it works in many places..
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  #57  
Old 08-22-2007, 07:28 PM
jim jim is offline
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I am stating the obvious but the skyway is a dangerous place to ride. I rode there for my first time last night, and it immediately struck me as an area where potentially nasty things can happen. There were only a few people out , but immediately off the beach was really congested, and trying to get upwind was hard while getting out of other people's way. a few times my kite was flying over cars and people and i really didn't like that. A little farther out was a lesson going on and the inherent unpredictability of falling kites and out of control riders.(And thats fine I understand thats Randy's livlihood). Not to mention deep water with rocky shorelines on both sides of a really short riding area,and a major highway within easy striking distance of an out of control kite.
I can only imagine the freakshow that goes on there on a windy weekend. too many people riding a small congested area. It is a lot more fun to be at a place where a bunch of other people are riding , but i think part of the problem is everyone wants to go there as it is convenient. Spreading out to EB or other places that work on an east wind(I assume tampa bay has lots of options) would help the situation, or designating the immediate off the beach water to be for launch and landing and not riding.
I think the certification idea is really good and self policing to keep it safe of dangerous individuals is paramount, but the very nature of the sport(the amount of room a kite and lines takes up,the power involved,violent wipeouts) and the density of people riding will there will continue to create accidents.
I spent much of this first season of my kiteboarding in sarasota bay kiting from a small boat. Big areas of flat water with no one else around to run into, and no hard objects. I would not even conceive of the idea of going out into the fray unless fundamental skills were solid, I hope for everyone's sake that likes to ride around here that no more accidents occur!
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  #58  
Old 08-23-2007, 09:38 AM
Woodson Woodson is offline
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Views great from Lassing... Ready for a steady Sea Breeze and getting back out to the Gulf....

Triton! When's the paaaaa-rty, bra!?!?!
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  #59  
Old 08-23-2007, 01:29 PM
Roadancer Roadancer is offline
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As I'm a noob to kiteboarding and Randy is my instructor of choice, I'm inclined to pitch in here. And yes I was there when this crash happened; I was getting my 15m ready for a lesson.

This guy had asked Randy for a lesson, from what Randy had said earlier, and still decided to go out there when Randy was booked. From first hand knowledge going kiting without instruction is a Darwin act waiting to happen. I know the desire to "get out there" when the wind is shit most of the summer.

As for places to learn; sorry but most of the places where the wind is great, everyone is at. Everyone here was a noob at one time, and from what I was told kiters are a pretty great bunch of folks, so let's not get into where to and where to not teach. The skyway has it's perils, one of guys I've met while writing the article on kiteboarding, I'm currently involved with, almost had his "in the rocks" experience and used it to make sure I knew where he had problems. Randy took time to make sure I was way out so when I did face plant, (several times) I did not take out a kiter or wind up with a dangerous situation for myself, mouth full of Tampa Bay excluded.

You can buy a kite anywhere; no salesperson will sidestep a $1000+ sale because there are people too stupid to realize what they are doing. While it would be great to require a card to get a kite (I need to show my card before I can get scuba tanks) I don't see that happening soon enough.

-Roadie

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Originally Posted by Unimog Bob View Post
I think part of the issue is you can buy a kite and get a lesson right at the skyway. This is not a good beginner spot! If you are under close supervision by a good instructor maybe, but to get one or two hours and a new 15M kite and expect to ride there safely is insane!!! There is some implied permission that it is a learning spot if you got a lesson there. If you can't confidently water start and go directly upwind you have no business riding at any skyway launch unless you are under direct supervision.

I admire Randy and Cindy for working hard to create a successful business. I see them both as friends, since they don't post here I'm going to try to talk to them about encouraging their customer to practice and develop their skills at other sites. I can't imagine what kiting would be like if we get banned at the skyway, but unless we change the way it is being used it will be and soon.

Oh, and having a certificate doesn't make you a good instructor and teaching is about more than making money. Having the knowledge and skills are much more important, and more so to genuinely care about the student and creating a positive outcome.
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  #60  
Old 08-23-2007, 01:53 PM
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Steve-O Steve-O is offline
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Road dancer....I can appreciate your view, but remember you are new to the sport and your view is limited.

The concerns are this....the Skyway is not a place for a beginner. Many have been taking their chances there and finally someone got bashed. This is not Randy's fault and I don't think anyone is saying it is. There are some concerns that he is teaching there, but if his students are educated to use East Beach after their lessons then alot of problems solved. I have put myself in danger many times rescuing a new rider getting dragged into the rocks. I think people are just getting sick of it and many knew an accident was waiting to happen. Well it finally did.

East Beach is much more forgiving but many don't want to take the extra 10 minutes to get there. East Beach had half the kites that Skyway had Monday night and 10 times the room. It's a no brainer. East Beach pretty much works on the same wind direction as Skyway Northeast so the majority of kiters on this forum agree that new riders should go to East Beach. It is just safer. It has it's hazads, but nothing like the Skyway does.

So I don't see the confusion. Go to East Beach....less crowded....more space....safer spot.
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