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Old 03-22-2008, 04:48 PM
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kite-4-life kite-4-life is offline
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Default Association Discussion

ATTENTION:
Our area has one of the largest kiter populations in the state. We have a dozen certified instructors teaching, plus the self-learners, kooks, and cowboys, and guys teaching their friends and GF’s. At only 2 students per month each for 6 months of wind, 12 instructors teach 144 students. Add the rest and its possibly up to 200 more kiters per season entering our local scene. Most instructors teach way more than 2 students a month.
That is reality in our area.
I do not think this area will stand up to another season of this many new kiters hitting the water without an another serious accident or ban.
OUR SOLUTION:
A group of local kiters are forming a “club” or association for the Tampa Bay area. It is separate from our non-profit efforts, ASF/ K4L. They are separate entities with the same goals, and will work together to achieve these goals. This is our way to get things started now, before bans, more injuries, or bad press.
I have been overly open and straightforward about these goals for a long time, one of the few who have dedicated themselves to finding solutions, and put in the research to make it work. With support and compliance, it will work- without a doubt.
HERE’S WHAT IT IS:
There will be elected Board members for this association- with a minimum of 4 volunteer Board members to handle operations. (PRES., VP, SECRETARY, TREASURER) There’s plenty more positions to be filled, and the size of the Board will be determined by amount of interested leaders. (Basically, there’s something for everyone to do, and much help is needed to make this work) More leadership and more volunteer “teams”, mean more results/success.
Elections are open to any kiter, providing they have TIME, are capable of performing required tasks, and operate in the best interest of the association. With these “titles” will come real responsibilities, duties, and deadlines. If you are interested in being a leader, we need to know ASAP. If no one steps up and wants to lead the way, the positions will be filled by an existing ASF/K4L Board member, as they are already actively pursuing these avenues.

NOTICE OF MEETINGS:
We are going to have 3-4 meetings in the near future, beginning NEXT Sunday- March 30th at 6:00, and continuing each week or two until elections are done and guidelines finalized. (I will post a new thread with location and meeting agenda once we have a set location.) Things will be discussed and decided at these meetings, and guidelines for Tampa Bay kiting will follow. It will establish standards for this area and be a positive representation of Tampa Bay Kiteboarders to “officials” and the community, and attempt to rebuild relationships with fellow wind and wave users-Kiters, surfers, windsurfers, county officials and the general public. This will happen in the form of coordinated beach cleanups, multi-sport events, programs, & exhibitions, and working together to preserve access and re-open lost launch sites (Howard Park). We are looking to create “teams” of kiters to work on access, events, programs, public image, fundraising, etc. and utilize those smaller teams focus on those areas.
The reason for having several meetings is to allow everyone to know what’s going on, allow them to be heard, and allow them to participate in this association. If you want to complain about it do it here, because these meetings will be to get things accomplished and make decisions. We do not want to hear any “I didn’t know”,” I didn’t have a chance” or “hidden agenda” BS in the future.4 meetings in 4-8 weeks is plenty of notice- and time enough for discussion/modification.
BOARD MEMBERS WILL BE ELECTED AND A TAMPA BAY KITERS ASSOCIATION WILL BE FORMED WITHIN THE FIRST 3 MEETINGS-
GUIDELINES, SIGNS, AND AN I.D. SYSTEM WILL BE THE FIRST TASKS OF THIS BOARD. We will also assemble a team to work on access issues and I will share all the info I have so they can have every resource possible to regain access at Howard Park.
The meetings will be semi-formal and not be in a party atmosphere or location.
- There will be no alcohol at these meetings.
-The floor will be open for all to speak, one at a time, and all points discussed.
-2 or 3 initial meetings between the people who want to do something, and the other one or two to inform the ones who did nothing. The lazy ones, haters, and “rebels” will just have to live with the decisions of the majority.
-I will post the first meetings topics ASAP
-a report of the meetings will be posted

Let’s discuss some of this here in preparation of the upcoming meetings:
I.D. System:
If you don’t want a harness tag, it will be stickers and streamers or whatever else is suggested quick. No other detailed solution has been offered. If you have ideas or solutions, put them here and we will discuss it in a positive manner.
Possibles are harness tags/patches, streamers, board/car stickers, rashgards,and combinations of each. The artwork has to be copyrighted and or trademarked to make it official and non reproduceabe. A numbering system is very expensive to produce with card ID’s or stickers, so that isn’t an option at this time.
A patch is more expensive and requires sewing, but less apt to get lost or damaged than card.( It does solve the “swiping the card” scenario that Scott mentioned.(OUCH!)
Rashgards are cool, but expensive- and not everyone will wear it all the time.

How to pay for it? (major hurdle)
*Just throwing some numbers and ideas out here, don’t beat me up too bad!
- Could eventually get non-profit status and run from donations, grants, and fundraisers, but that is not a quick solution. Personally, I can’t shell it out of pocket and hope for the best or it would have already been done.
-It could be done with membership fees and is ABSOLUTELY the simplest way-( approx. 30.00 year?)- which would covers signs, ID system, membership package(shirt, stickers), association website, and possibly 1 or 2 local events and several cleanups. 10.00 more each would add more events. 10 bux less would leave off the t shirt and stickers. Remaining money goes to end of year party, or to “Friends of Ft. Desoto” from the appreciative kiter crowd.

-Whatever is done, it is handled by the treasurer and all public record. All funds go directly back into local kiteboarding.

INSTRUCTORS AND NEW KITERS: What I am suggesting is creating an association that is run by volunteer instructors and kiters. The instructors who are compliant and teaching a complete lesson will be advertised equally on an association website. Those who are not teaching a safe, complete lesson will be asked to not teach on our beaches. Someone has mentioned to me that skills testing would need to be done by someone other than the students instructor to make it fair. Although it makes it more difficult, I agree.
Self teaching and others would pretty much be forced to be with a qualified instructor to practice at our launches, and not free to practice alone without passing the basic skills test.
It grandfathers in EVERY current kiter, regardless of how they learned but it does draw the line for future prospects, and forces them to seek qualified instruction.

-There has to be a “penalty system” in place. My suggestion is to not allow problem kiters to attend, or compete in, association events, parties, etc…. It’s a start.

Hopefully this post made sense, and will generate some positive solutions to some of our problems. Constructive criticsm is encouraged and new ideas are more than welcome.
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2008, 05:10 PM
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Gui Gui is offline
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great initiative !
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2008, 06:39 PM
CrazyJay CrazyJay is offline
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Good job Steve. Can't wait for the first meeting.

There are 2 things I want to say:

First, If any surfers were offended by the downwinder that me and several others riders did the other day then I sincerely apologize.

Second, I applaud everyone's efforts for trying to make kiteboarding safer for bystanders. I think most riders only ride within their physical and mental capabilities. Accidents are usually caused by lack of knowledge, severe weather, or gear failure. All the signs, flags, streamers, etc are not going to change this. We cannot control the weather or a broken bridle. The one thing we CAN do is to always be on the lookout for inexperienced riders and help teach them at the beach. You can't do this behind your computer guys.

Some accidents are going to happen. PERIOD. I have been saying this for years and always catch hell for it, but you all know it is true.
Sooner or later you will get hit by a really bad gust, or break a bridle, or a chicken loop, or have a spreader bar failure. There are so many things that can go wrong.

This is why I have been saying for years that ALL RIDERS (INCLUDING SURFERS) SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST $1,000,000 IN LIABILITY INSURANCE.
Most of the people on this forum who are so "concerned" with access don't have any coverage. WHY? The fastest way to get banned is to cause damage or injury and not be able to make amends. I don't think that the county would ever ban kitesurfing if they knew that we required all riders to have $1,000,000 of coverage

Attached is a copy of my liability insurance that I have had for years. I bought it strictly to cover me and my family when kitesurfing but it covers all personal liability. It cost me an extra $375 yearly on my auto insurance. In terms of cost this is very little. How much did you spend on that last kite?

I hope all "concerned" kiters will follow this lead and post there coverage here also. If you want to us to have tags then the tags should show that we are insured.

Jayson
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2008, 06:59 PM
Kitespear813 Kitespear813 is offline
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I agree That we need to work together to Insure access, And I think the association is a good idea.
However I also Understand "KITE FREE" and don't like the idea of someone telling if I can ride or not. or who I can learn from.
I think there needs to be a compromise and as a newer kiter I think I can offer a unique perspective.
I have had lessons and to be honest with you I think they were way over priced and just about worthless,(Bad instructor) mainly overpriced though, and I think this is a big reason why people often do not take lessons, I am sure anyone would be willing to learn from an instructor if it were free. that being said I think it would be good start for the Association to offer some lessons or worshops that went over basic safety proceedure and right of way rules and lessons for anyone who needs thems. These don't have to be advanced lessons just "Safety lessons" if you will. Then at least if someone doesn't want to pay for "Advanced Instruction" they still have the knowledge to be safe.
My instructor did teach me safe set-up land and launch, conditions,ECT. but from there I taught myself, and safely. Just takes a little common sense.

I think that the patch system is also a good idea, so that new riders or visitors can identify the better riders or leaders But do not think they should be mandatory.
But a patch system will not eliminate the azzols that like to ride in the swim zones, and piss off surfers.They must be dealt with differently,like Criminals.

I think we have a great group of people here in Tampa and every Kiter i have ever met here has been nothing but friendly, regardless of what my skill level was.
I own a few businesses and can offer my services @ cost to help the local kiting community,
Things Like
ID lables
custom bags
Graphic Art,
Silkscreening
and custom patches.
My cost for a Multi color, iron on or sew on patch will probly surprise you.
If I can do anything to help let me know.
Sean
www.armorbags.com
www.dockslocks.com
www.armorcertkits.com
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:52 PM
bayflite bayflite is offline
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i'd gladly pay 30 bucks a month 4 insurance.
it's the "riding out so far" thats got me pissed.
i don't feel i put bystanders at risk by ridin inside the markers.
i'm a carver.
last time i did a kiteloop it was by accident.
see...i have to show up to work 2morrow and do more than just type on the computer.<<<that's not a cheap shot i envy you "I.T." guys.
most rides i take in the gulf r on days that only surfers and kiters are in the water.
and i am super safe.
of course if i see swimmers i give a lot of room.
if i break a bridle i don't want 2 get snagged by a marker or have real long swim.
when was the last time you saw a bystander(not a surfer) complain ?
props to all who chime in.
l8r
__________________
don't taze me bro
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  #6  
Old 03-22-2008, 08:11 PM
TritonKiteboarding TritonKiteboarding is offline
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Location: Jax Beach \ Islamorada \ a red f-150
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Way to stick with this steve and my organizations fully support your initiative as you know, we'll be at the meeting and thanks for taking the reigns.
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2008, 08:13 PM
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kite-4-life kite-4-life is offline
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I agree completely on the insurance,I wish I had it. I have been working on kiter specific insurance for instructors and kiters and have some promising leads, but they all say the same thing-get everyone on the same page and into a group (org or assn) and we will find you an underwriter that is US based.
They need a standardized basic skills test to even consider writing a policy. This could hopefully make it a lot cheaper, and include similar benefits to the IKO policy.
Group rate, group instructors insurance, health, life etc. are all real possibilities in the future.
This is getting off track from my post, but I enjoy talking about it

An association with a tag,band, whatever is there to tell new kiters "This is how we do things around here".We are safe kiters and look out for our spots.
I know a little tag wont stop an accident, but a skills test makes sure they have the skills to practice on their own.
We discuss self launching bow kites all the time- let's get out there and do it together.
Let's look at all the safety systems and make sure they are rigged right and that everyone has a QR on their leash. Let's run through some safety stuff and throw down some self rescue racing. Want you GF to learn how to launch a kite? Got it covered. Cookout? Of course! There's plenty more to a day like that and I dont wanna give away all the goodies, but thats the basic concept of a "safety day". It goes hand in hand with the rest of the stuff.
I have a lot of people ask about self rescue, this is a chance for us all to brush up on our skills and share our experience with the new guys. I think the whole run through would be 30-45 minutes per kiter out of their kiting day.

We have had an "association" here the whole time. Start plugging in a few connections and contacts here and there and you will see the potential.
All it takes is teamwork.
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  #8  
Old 03-22-2008, 09:14 PM
<jason
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Steve...you know me bro... im there...peace
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2008, 09:22 PM
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Steve-O Steve-O is offline
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Steve!!!!

You know you have my support with this association.

Per our conversations in the past about our issues, I believe this is exactly what is needed to make any kind of progress. I commend you on taking something like this on, and I sincerely hope that you get a ton of support.

I think for anyone having reservations about an association should ask a few simple questions......

Is this association going to hurt our sport?
Is the association going to take away your enjoyment of the sport?
Is the association going to assist in making kiteboarding safer and be a leader in preserving access?

I don't think this process will be easy by any means, but an organization must be formed if we are going to make any type of progress with ideas that are brought to the table. The sign and tag idea fell apart simply due to a lack of organization.

Again, Steve, I commend you on your efforts of trying to bring this to reality. I for one would not have had the time to get something like this together, but I will have the time to support the association with whatever task I am given.

Steve-O
Watersports West
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2008, 09:32 PM
Tom Stock
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**** the props i'll donate $100.

do u do paypal?
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