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  #41  
Old 08-21-2007, 02:20 PM
Skyway Scott
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In the future, if I see a kiter who I deem a threat to his own safety, I am going to politely approach this kiter and talk with him. I have done this since day one.
Before I approach him, I usually look for 2 other kiters that I believe have the same thought process as myself and ask them to help with the "safety speech" to persuade the rider not to ride, to take lessons, (whatever that scenario holds).
I know a few who I can depend on (including Raul, Tom, Steve S., Scott W., Toby and others) to tactfully help in this type of scenario. Steve S. noticed a total novice about a year ago at the backside, asked me to help him "give the speech" and we helped stop a problem before it happened in a very positive manner thanks to his observation and actions.

Anyone who believes in this approach of politely policing our spots, just tell Raul, me, Steve etc. next time out. We will eventually have a group of responsible riders that cooperate and in a tactful and civil manner assure continued access to our spots.

This isn't a gestapo statement, btw, pretty far from it. I don't foresee shutting down every newb out there or doing a full body search prior to riding. That's not what this is about. It's about shutting down the totally incompetent rider quickly and effectively before they end up embedded in the side of a truck with their kite headed toward the interstate.
It's easy enough to spot them most of the time. The thing is, often decisions have to be made very quickly after the rider's clueless-ness is determined. (b/c it is often not obvious until they go to launch improperly or crash the kite 4 times in a row right near shore immediately after launching) etc.

It'd be nice to know very quickly when responding to these scenarios who we can depend on to "jump in" and help quickly by just yelling their name and knowing they are going to follow your lead and help (kind of like who is on the volunteer fire fighters squad or something) as opposed to having them question your actions.
Helpers would be helping secure the person, the kite and then help with a polite but firm speech. This, imo, should never approach anything close to a fight or intimidation. At the same time though, I can tell you from personal experience that giving the "speech" alone while others sit and watch passively is moderately ineffective without raising your voice and acting aggressive for some, because some interpret the apathy of other kiters as indicating that the one guy giving the speech is some kind of safety whack job with extreme views that aren't agreed upon among the group.

Anyway, if you think you would be interested in helping out, just approach me next time out there and we will begin to get a group of friendly but persuasive helpers as an alternative to suicide by kite. I hope this scenario only happens 3 to 10 times all season. It'd be nice if we successfully responded to each one before a possibly bad outcome. In the past we have been a little lax, imo, about stopping a problem before it happens.

If you don't want to be involved, no worries, just don't volunteer.
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2007, 02:26 PM
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amber amber is offline
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That was well put Scott. I may not be the best rider on the water but after years of instructing students in other watersports and two years of being on the beach watching it all, and living it all (try to live with Steve S, Toby and Mira for a while and trust me....I can tell you more about kiting and all that accompanies it than a lot of people!

i feel confident in my ability to properly judge a dangerous potential outcome. I know I'm a girl and aren't quite as intimidating, but maybe it will become less confrontational if a girl in pigtails can explain some of the necessities of riding in this area and be able to refer them to qualified instructors if deemed necessary.
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2007, 03:15 PM
popeye
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You guys (oops and girl, Amber) hit the nail on the head.

I agree there is usually no need to be aggressive with the person who is looking sketchy ... just offering to help, asking some questions, and telling them a few horror stories is enough to get their attention.

Done this a MANY times.. the last time I did it at lassing the rider quickly made his own wise decision not to launch a 16 in 25. I offered to meet up with him later when the wind came down and keep an eye on him (for help not judgement).
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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I’m all in for helping to make things safer in a positive way. I think an arm band to signify basic skills or above to ride skyway sounds good, but you know some will take the option to object, and you need to have some one as an administrator distributor.

I do feel bad I didn’t take the time to talk to the injured rider when I saw him struggling on the water in very light wind. He had a large Monkey kite and a mid size liquid force board with too much rocker. Frankly he was doing better than four other new riders right up near the beach and I thought he’d get tired before it picked up. I was getting off the water just as it started picking up because I had a time limit and I did talk to another lower skilled rider launching a 16 Cab and warned him it was going to pick up.

My point is that our informal safety and access group would have been busy yesterday. I would have liked to been part of, no exaggeration, seven conversations regarding skills and judgment in the two hours I was there. It doesn’t leave much time for kiting but if it helps us keep our access I’m willing to help.

Bob
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  #45  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:18 PM
t_twotone t_twotone is offline
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Everybody seems to like Randy, but if the Skyway is not a place for beginners to kite, lessons should not be taught there. It's only going to embolden them to kite there. Instructors should tell thier students not to kite there until they can consistently go upwind. Which usually takes a season so they will naturally be experienced in many aspects of kiting by then. They should tell them not to learn jumping there, because it's way too dangerous and they may get us banned. Usually a newbie is gonna be apprehensive and a couple of concerned words this may not be the time and place for their skill level will be heeded, especially if you redirect them to East Beach.

"Before I approach him, I usually look for 2 other kiters that I believe have the same thought process as myself and ask them to help with the "safety speech" to persuade the rider not to ride, to take lessons, (whatever that scenario holds)."

The herd mentality will go a long way to discourage most newbies
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  #46  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:56 PM
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TampaBay Noob TampaBay Noob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_twotone View Post
Everybody seems to like Randy, but if the Skyway is not a place for beginners to kite, lessons should not be taught there. It's only going to embolden them to kite there.
Yep. Problem is Randy won't receive nearly as much traffic stationing himself anywhere else other than the skyway, which means......less income. That's the reason these problems will continue to occur. Noobs make mistakes. It's part of the learning process. Let's not get it twisted...upon completion of lessons, one is still considered a noob. Randy encourages something that is unsafe, so the problem will persist.
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  #47  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:33 PM
popeye
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Just want to say, I definitely think Randy is one of the nicest guys out there...

..but I agree that the skyway is not a great place for doing lessons.

HOWEVER... if forced to choose between a beach full of kids and parents, and the skyway full of just kiteboarders, I would choose the skyway.

Teaching at a crowded beach is one of the WORST place you could teach, period. Worse than that would be a parking lot.

Last edited by popeye; 08-21-2007 at 08:24 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:34 PM
Optionryder420 Optionryder420 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevil Kenevil View Post
Kevin(optionryder420)- We are all well aware of your lack of respect for authority,rules, certifications, and all that.(remember the parking situation discussion?) We will now refer to you as "Fonzie", because you really are too cool for rules. aAaaAAAYYYYYYY........... MAybe you could pound the jukebox and play a song for us, cool guy.

Mr. Fonzarelli(Fonzie),Did you explain to your student the kitemare with launching your first student? (I am sure he would be glad to refresh your memory about his trip to the hospital)
about my worthless certification-Behind that worthless paper is a whole bunch of knowledge. Would you like to discuss location risk asessments, lesson plans,teaching psychology,basic meterology and oceanology,aerodynamic principles pertaining to kites,the Coriolis force, or the Beaufort Scale? How about something really simple, such as the Venturi Effect? These things and more are all taught to instructor candidates (IKO) by a KITEBOARDING PROFESSIONAL.(IKO Examiner) They are tested with written exam(no multiple choice) in detail. Also graded on class presentations of above mentioned subjects, and live teaching situations. I almost left out ALL the SAFETY stuff, including rescue with a boat demo, and first aid/CPR certification. I have yet to take the PASA course, maybe you would like to join me so you have a leg to stand on?
So, Kevin (and a few others) the certification is only worthless to you, mainly due to your lack of respect for anything that isn't "rebel".People like you make my goal of promoting SAFE kiting MUCH MORE DIFFICULT! Its not that I am "holier than thou" its that I am more educated than thou pertaining to kiteboarding and situations like this.
I did explain to him the situation with Josh. It served as a warning to how powerful the kite is, and how accidents can happen. Not to mention Josh was NOT someone I was teaching, I THOUGHT at the time he knew what he was doing. So Technically that puts me in the same place as the person whom launched the guy at the skyway.

And did they really go in depth over the venturi effect, Coriolis effect, and actual aerodynamics of the kite? And do you really think explaining these things to students will help them, I honestly don't.

My father is a firefighter/ems and my mother was a nurse, do you really think I don't know a thing or two about first aid, CPR, and what to do in case of an emergency?

I've been riding here, sailing here, and living here long enough to know about the locations, where would be best to teach and how to go about doing it. I won't be bothering any of you with teaching my friend so there's no problems with it.

I'm not getting tons of people to pay me to teach, so that's not the issue anyways.

The fact is, just because you have that piece of paper, doesn't make you any better than an instructor that doesn't. Doesn't mean your any worse either.

Also, don't try to pull the ONLY CERTIFIED RIDERS card, because it's not even a TRUE certification. It's not recognized by any government entity so it doesn't even matter.
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  #49  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:39 PM
popeye
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Niether is a scuba C card... but that doesn't mean it's worthless.
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  #50  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
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inferno inferno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optionryder420 View Post

And did they really go in depth over the venturi effect, Coriolis effect, and actual aerodynamics of the kite? And do you really think explaining these things to students will help them, I honestly don't.
i disagree, the venturi effect is a serious matter and it scares me when i see people tempting it....

http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewt...8f81d37a2f6fbb
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