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  #31  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:02 PM
popeye
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Originally Posted by toby wilson View Post
Creating drama on a forum because you are bored is something completely different than showing genuine concern for someone's safety Tom. Stop complaining about it on the forum as has been done on countless threads and actually PROVE that you are CONCERNED by showing that concern at the beach.
Toby, I don't know why you feel you need to single me out and make it personal attack every time I voice my concern about safety.

If you aren't disagreeing with me why exactly did you choose to single me out on this thread?

If you actually showed up to ride once in awhile you'd see that I usually spend more time helping beginners, recovering boards and launching and landing kites than I do riding. I've learned some hard lessons myself and am always sharing stories with beginners to educate them about the dangers of kiting.

You just can't agree with everything and expect to make a change at the same time. We definitely cannot promote safety by nodding and giving the thumbs up to everything under the sun while some newb launches himself into the black void.

[edited, i got the Steve's mixed up]

Btw, I agree instructors should be certified... but it is obvious that the training required for some certifications at the moment is not quite up to the level it should be. That IS a problem, but it's a problem of the certifying agency, not the certification itself. And of course there are some great instructors who are not certified... but that is usually because they let their certification lapse, not because they were never trained to begin with. There are still a few who are just good at teaching anything... but there is no way for a beginner to recognize that without some form of certificate.

Last edited by popeye; 08-21-2007 at 12:57 PM.
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  #32  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:06 PM
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shogun1204 shogun1204 is offline
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Well I hope the guys is ok. Sucks he got hurt, and accidents do happen. Skyways a sketchie launch and really should not be ridden by newbies. Yeah I learned at Skyway when I first started but I didn't know any better. If I did, I would never have taken lessons with the person that gave me lessons there. Maybe if people are asking about lessons you should refer them to someone that does not teach there? No offense to anyone that teaches there, but if they do they are just trying to make money for themselvs. Start looking out for the riders that want to keep the launch open and refer them to someone that you know does not teach at Skyway. This will prevent a lot of these newbie riders from ridding there, because most guys that dont teach there tell there students it's not a good spot until you know how to ride.

I have to say after comming back from Hawaii, Kaulia Bay in Oahu make Skyway look like the best newbie Launch in the world! LOL The beach is about 20 x 20 for Kiters maybe! Then when the beach ends it just HUGE freaking Trees!!!!!! The spot to set kites on the beach has space for maybe 6 kites and that is pushing it! On top of that there is about a MILLION freaking people just hanging out on the beach! It hard to launch your kite because everyone is in the way! On Oahu this is consider the safe spot to launch! LOL Just glad to be in Florida where our beaches are big, and no reef!

Also on a another note! If you are tired of the crowds you should move up to Panama City, FL! There is about 8 of us here the kite regularly! The only good spot to learn is only accessible by boat only! I have seen a few guys who are newbies try to learn how to ride on the beach here when it's blowing 25 and the waves are 3 feet overhead! Let just say you usally see them ONCE and then usually not again! LOL If you do, they are up and riding by then!
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  #33  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:23 PM
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toby wilson toby wilson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Toby, I don't know why you feel you need to single me out and make it personal attack every time I voice my concern about safety.

If you aren't disagreeing with me why exactly did you choose to single me out on this thread?

If you actually showed up to ride once in awhile you'd see that I usually spend more time helping beginners, recovering boards and launching and landing kites than I do riding. I've learned some hard lessons myself and am always sharing stories with beginners to educate them about the dangers of kiting.

You just can't agree with everything and expect to make a change at the same time. We definitely cannot promote safety by nodding and giving the thumbs up to everything under the sun while some newb launches himself into the black void.

Steve-O is now saying the same thing I got flamed for last season... remember when I said instructors should be certified and I questioned his experience? Remember how you flamed me for it?

I got roasted pretty bad and even apologized to Steve-O for it in person. But hey, it turns out he got certified and has gained a lot of experience, and I respect him for that. He's been doing a great job as far as I can tell and he's a pretty nice guy. It also seems he shares my opinion now regarding certification, imagine that.

Btw, I still believe instructors should be certified... but it is obvious that the training required for some certifications at the moment is not quite up to the level it should be. That IS a problem, but it's a problem of the certifying agency, not the certification itself. And of course there are some great instructors who are not certified... but that is usually because they let their certification lapse, not because they were never trained to begin with.
You may want to turn on ABC. I think the soap operas are starting.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:26 PM
popeye
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Exactly... enjoy.
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  #35  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:27 PM
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Steve-O Steve-O is offline
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For the record....Randy called the shop today. Apparently he was knee deep in the accident and has this kids kite.

We take down all information of customers that buy kites for warranty purposes....and we don't have any record of this kid buying a kite from us.

For what it is worth, anyone can get gear at any time and go try and fly. It is the self policing at the beach which is going to make the biggest impact of all.

I think we all can agree on this.
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  #36  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:37 PM
popeye
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Thanks for the info... any idea of what happened? (Equipment failure or not)
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  #37  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:41 PM
Woodson Woodson is offline
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Steve-O,

I agree.


We should handle this without emotion and as a business while being as proactive as possible...
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  #38  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:42 PM
Optionryder420 Optionryder420 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby wilson View Post
You may want to turn on ABC. I think the soap operas are starting.
I've been on these forums as long as you have, and it's always you instigating things and then bitching about it afterwords.
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  #39  
Old 08-21-2007, 01:05 PM
popeye
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Just let it go... he has a personal problem with me, it's obvious, and thats fine. I just need to learn to ignore it. I got suckered into responding.
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  #40  
Old 08-21-2007, 01:13 PM
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amber amber is offline
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Part of why its taken me a year to feel comfortable without someone definitely looking out for me is because i was reading these posts and seeing the scares and kites in trees at the skyway, etc before i picked up the trainer kite. I did take a lesson at REAL as well as with Steve after he was certified and learned some safety stuff, but my main instructor as you all know was Toby and although we argued a lot, the majority of it was based on the fact that safety was always BOTH of our main priorities Him being worried about me and me being scared to death that something bad was going to happen . It wasn't about speedy progression or learning to jump right away. It was about getting to know my kite and my control of it. The IKO instructors ARE required to LEARN and DEMONSTRATE TEACHING many safety skills including self rescue, etc. If they are not implementing this into their curriculum, that is their choice. I beleive that no one should even be able to BUY a kite without previously proficiently flying a trainer kite and be able to talk about wind window, safe launching practices and body dragging. Kites are a great way for people to make money but as in this instance demonstrates that it can come back and bite you in the A$$ if that is your objective.

We've discussed this many times before. I am no great rider, but i have walked up to someone i didn't recognize at the beach, introduced myself and intiate a conversation about their kiting background. This is nonconfrontational and an effective way to judge if the person is ready for our sacred launches that we don't want to lose as well as a great way to meet some cool new people. I am ALWAYS referring people to some of the local instructors that i have seen with my own eyes with a focus on safety and that includes matt and mike, steve and steve-o, and a few others. Learning from my boyfriend didn't make me a risk to everyone on the water because we always tried to be smart about it.

I think this thread needs to end soon because we are all on the team here and all want the same ultimate goal and its just getting ugly. Safe, fun, stress-free kiting!!

So for those of us that frequently read and post on the forum... i expect that next time we're at the beach and people are either inquiring about lessons or after discussion clearly haven't been trained in the safety aspects of the sport (and this includes going by the rocks, the bridge, etc) we politely tell the person that they NEED lessons before they should ride here because people have gotten really hurt and that good lessons can provide some of the skills to save their a$$ one day too.

So... season is coming...we're all cranky cuz we haven't ridden in a while, most of us haven't even seen each other in a while. We are a team and we need to follow the same pattern CONSISTENLY when dealing with the inevitable new riders. take the 5 minutes to talk to them on the beach. It gives the chance to save you or your buddy.

Till then, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the water with all of you. I'm ALMOST going upwind (i know...slow progression) but i'm finally having fun and not having to trudge thru the muck anymore and appreciate people "keeping an eye on me" as I will for all of my co-riders as well. Whether its equipment failure or knowledge failure or just a very fast accident, we look out for each other. Period.
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