FKA Kiteboarding Forums  

Go Back   FKA Kiteboarding Forums > St. Petersburg/Tampa Bay Forum > Let's Ride!
Connect with Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/rick.iossi
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2008, 09:09 AM
Tom Stock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddjb View Post
Coach, thanks for sharing this account. It is something that scares me about bridled kites (which I fly) and your post will give us all a chance to think. What would we do in this situation? How can we prepare for it?
A good handlepass leash with disconnect ... like this one is a good start. Any brand is fine as long as it works.

  #2  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:25 AM
Erick's Avatar
Erick Erick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Stock View Post
A good handlepass leash with disconnect ... like this one is a good start. Any brand is fine as long as it works.

Tom,

Correct me if I’m wrong here but I've noticed that the SS leash makes more sense to me than the one you shown before why?

I believe that when somebody is in trouble (or in deep sh*t being pulled by the kite), a natural human instinct is to pull instead of push to activate the quick release.

See pics (sorry, i know the rider drawing looks very crappy)
__________________
Champions use adversity like a kite uses the wind;
rising against it, they soar to new heights.

Last edited by Erick; 02-28-2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason: typos all over the place
  #3  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:44 AM
Gator Gris's Avatar
Gator Gris Gator Gris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 66
Default Chime In

Bill,

Colin called me to tell me what happend -that evening. It was surreal for me, because I saw you at East Beach earlier that day and the wind shifted SW. Myself and a group went to Passagrille and you obviously went to Skyway West.

I was going to try out a waist harness. I think I will stay with a seat harness for now. Is there anyway to prevent those waist harnesses from spinning around?

On a positive note, if it takes a while longer to get the right conditions for the Kitemasters Race, you could make that hopefully!

Glad you are alive and relatively well! When I was brand new, you were very supportive. Thanks again for being the man!

Gris
__________________
Gris

Keep it real!
  #4  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:47 AM
skempthepimp's Avatar
skempthepimp skempthepimp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 60
Default

First off bro no apologies needed whatsoever. You were in the land of the bunny rabbits and understandably so.

Ok. The lines of the kite definitely were grabbed by the tree and the kite drilled the top of the fence. The tree grabbing the 2 lines probably are the only reason it didn't completely clear the fence and go in the road because when the kite looped they shortened the distance between you and the kite and allowed the kite to hit the fence. After telling you that "you lived, just relax" I broke the kite down ASAP to get it off of DOT's hands. Outta sight outta mind ya know. The left side of the kite was torn a little and the LE was deflated, so I think your bladder is done. The bridle was well tangled in the top of the chain link, and as I was deflating struts I noticed there was a torn bridle line that looked like it broke from tension. This line was on the same side of the kite as the tear. The other 2 lines were in the tree and stayed there for about ten minutes. They were well tangled and I tugged pretty hard to get them free. I was careful to roll up your kite without tearing it any more, so there may be some salvage potential. All struts were inflated after the incident was over, so they are good.

When you did hit the QR, the kite was definitely stopped and you crawled a half crawl and released it in about 4-5 seconds from stopping.

Also, that slab of concrete was not alone. There were others that were just submerged and were out a little from the beach. I think those were the ones you hit. It happened real fast though bro.

How are you feeling today?
  #5  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:06 PM
toby wilson's Avatar
toby wilson toby wilson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Palmetto, FL
Posts: 1,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Gris View Post
Bill,

I was going to try out a waist harness. I think I will stay with a seat harness for now. Is there anyway to prevent those waist harnesses from spinning around?

Gris
Gris,

The only reason he got spun around is because his leash was attached to the handlepass leash attachment point on the mystic waist harness. The harness didn't actually spin around his waist but rather spun BILL around from the pull of the kite. Just FYI.
  #6  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:19 AM
Tom Stock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Tom,

Correct me if I’m wrong here but I've noticed that the SS leash makes more sense to me than the one you shown before why?

I believe that when somebody is in trouble (or in deep sh*t being pulled by the kite), a natural human instinct is to pull instead of push to activate the quick release.

See pics (sorry, i know the rider drawing looks very crappy)
I don't believe there is any natural instinct for pulling a safety release.

The reason i don't use the pull release is that I've accidentally released it while climbing the leash to recover the kite after letting it go unhooked.

What it comes down to is just having one which works and which you are used to. Push or Pull, your own preference.

Last edited by Tom Stock; 02-28-2008 at 12:34 PM.
  #7  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:42 AM
Todd RT's Avatar
Todd RT Todd RT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pinellas
Posts: 253
Default

Coach,

Sorry to hear about your kitemere man. That really sucks!

I just started riding in May. I only ride SB2's right now. (got a 16 and a 12)

I had a slight scare last week, where the line INSIDE the black plastic that holds your chickenloop to the inside lines, simply SNAPPED.

Cabrinha, and my instructor, said to hook my leash to this same center line, right under the bar.

When my center line snapped, I was no longer attached to the like, the leash was not connected to anything, and I was trying to control my 12M in like 25mph while it was looping and bouncing off the water. FORTUNATELY I was in waist deep water. I was able to finally get the kite hangin' on one of the outside lines to maintain control (and make a birds nest of my lines) and I was safe, the kite was undamaged.

The question I have here is...

Shouldn't my leash be attached to one of the outside lines on a SB2 or SB3 for that matter??? (Then if I pull the emergency release on the center line, the kite will be hangin' from an outside line. Or if the center line breaks again, the kite will still be attached to me, not just holding the bar for fear of loosing my kite.)
  #8  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:52 AM
kent kent is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 430
Default

Glad to hear that you are ok. I still don't like to think that any accident is unavoidable. I won’t comment on the bridal wear issue or the inspection, but like it or not, bridal wear will be prevalent on any kite with good use and I would assume that this is also the case with your 2-3 year old kite if you have not changed them. Let’s assume that as you said there was no visible wear and that an inspection was done, then I too agree that unseen breakage can and will happen from time to time (as stated just above). We all know that pulleys break, lines can have unseen cuts, etc. Unseen and unexpected breakage is unavoidable. I agree.

While I do understand that you feel that this was not a case or rider error, I think that we should review 3 issues that to me are clearly areas for improvement. Addressing any of these issues would have helped you and others to avoid similar issues in the future. The reason for bringing this up is not to question judgment, but in hopes that others will learn from this.

#1. The choice of leash with out an accessible QR was totally avoidable. Using a leash with out a QR could be considered the first and most glaring instance of rider error. It’s a bad idea under all circumstances. Getting caught by another kite, catching a boat, or being dragged by a wave would have had you in poor condition in all cases.

#2 I'd like to know is where exactly was the leash attached to the depowering system? Was it above or below the QR? I am assuming that it was below the QR given that you stated that the secondary, disk shaped release was out of reach. There would have been no reason to deploy this if your leash was above the QR, and attaching a leash above the QR if the leash doesn’t have a QR is unadvisable.

#3. If the leash was connected below the QR, unhooking could be seen as the third error. At this point, unhooking just negated having a breakaway system, thus putting safety out of your reach. If you leash was attached above the QR, then you MUST have a QR that is a part of your leash and is with in inches of your harness. Mine for example is attached to a steel ring at the back of my harness. I can get to in under all circumstances. It is important that your release in this area is one that is pulled AWAY from the body for release and not TOWARD the body.

Because I too have had a similar situation that I was fortunate to have walked away from, I have trained myself to carefully analyze my equipments safety features and have my action plan clearly thought out. I always attach my leash below the QR when launching and landing. Once safely offshore, I many times move the leash above the QR to avoid accidental releases. At this point, I have a good safety barrier similar to what you had. The difference is that because I always use a leash with a good and accessible QR, I simply would have used it. I have practiced using it and know exactly when to deploy it.

In short, it sounds as if you may have had a possibly undetectable catastrophic equipment failure. It seems as though you were on the correct size of kite for the conditions and that you have ample experience to have handled most situations that could have arisen. If this happened to you, no doubt it can happen to others. I am hoping that the 3 possible mistakes outlined above will be considered by others to avoid this in the future.

Just as any launch that is less than perfect is a BAD Launch, any equipment failure that causes an uncontrollable situation is catastrophic and the secondary release should be the PRIMARY thought. All riders need to carefully consider all 3 essential release mechanisms and understand when and how to deploy them quickly. While I am very happy to see that a bullet was dodged, it is important for all to know that this was an avoidable bullet irrespective of the failure. Equipment failure for any reason it not a reason to automatically get hurt. I’m sorry to have been so direct, but after reading so many posts indicating that they too agree that this was an unavoidable injury, some further education is definitely in order.

Kent
  #9  
Old 02-28-2008, 12:56 PM
Skyway Scott
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kent,

Most companies make all kinds of nice marketing videos and pretty much zero safety vids (how to safely operate gear). I can't help but think a video/CD explaining how to react in this situation, how to self land if necessary, etc, could help riders. A video showing this clearly would really help.

Is a useful video showing how to attach leash, QR, self rescue on particular kites ever going to happen?
I am still amazed how little info is released to kiters through manufacturers in this regard. Every time something like this comes up, you can easily hear 5 different takes on what should be done. Yet, I don't see a company take on "best safety practices" in a useful video with SS or Cabrinha or Best or whatever kite. Is it because you guys are afraid of lawsuits? Or do you think companies just don't want to take the time to make the video available? Anyway, videos are more useful than words for most things and don't take too long to make. Just curious.

Last edited by Skyway Scott; 02-28-2008 at 01:44 PM.
  #10  
Old 02-28-2008, 12:59 PM
Tom Stock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I like options. Here's my 2007 best bar. The ring below the bar fully depowers kite on front lines and releases the stopper ball. The others are for full tilt bailout. The front line ring will self land your kite like a champ.

[EDIT]: Not suggesting anyone replace their bar with a best bar ... but if you don't have enough options consider adding some additional rings. The front line ring is an addition on my bar and probably the most useful.


Last edited by Tom Stock; 02-28-2008 at 03:11 PM.
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Do not advertise outside of [COM] Forums.
Do not show disrespect for others in your postings.
Users can be denied access to this Site without warning.
FKA, Inc., it’s officers and moderators are not responsible
for the content of the postings and any links or pictures posted.

Report Problems by PM to “administrator” or via email to flkitesurfer@hotmail.com

Copyright FKA, Inc. 2004, All Rights Reserved.