Injury at Skyway

Originally Posted by toby wilson

Creating drama on a forum because you are bored is something completely different than showing genuine concern for someone's safety Tom. Stop complaining about it on the forum as has been done on countless threads and actually PROVE that you are CONCERNED by showing that concern at the beach.

Toby, I don't know why you feel you need to single me out and make it personal attack every time I voice my concern about safety.

If you aren't disagreeing with me why exactly did you choose to single me out on this thread?

If you actually showed up to ride once in awhile you'd see that I usually spend more time helping beginners, recovering boards and launching and landing kites than I do riding. I've learned some hard lessons myself and am always sharing stories with beginners to educate them about the dangers of kiting.

You just can't agree with everything and expect to make a change at the same time. We definitely cannot promote safety by nodding and giving the thumbs up to everything under the sun while some newb launches himself into the black void.

[edited, i got the Steve's mixed up]

Btw, I agree instructors should be certified... but it is obvious that the training required for some certifications at the moment is not quite up to the level it should be. That IS a problem, but it's a problem of the certifying agency, not the certification itself. And of course there are some great instructors who are not certified... but that is usually because they let their certification lapse, not because they were never trained to begin with. There are still a few who are just good at teaching anything... but there is no way for a beginner to recognize that without some form of certificate.

[toby wilson]

Originally Posted by popeye

Toby, I don't know why you feel you need to single me out and make it personal attack every time I voice my concern about safety.

If you aren't disagreeing with me why exactly did you choose to single me out on this thread?

If you actually showed up to ride once in awhile you'd see that I usually spend more time helping beginners, recovering boards and launching and landing kites than I do riding. I've learned some hard lessons myself and am always sharing stories with beginners to educate them about the dangers of kiting.

You just can't agree with everything and expect to make a change at the same time. We definitely cannot promote safety by nodding and giving the thumbs up to everything under the sun while some newb launches himself into the black void.

Steve-O is now saying the same thing I got flamed for last season... remember when I said instructors should be certified and I questioned his experience? Remember how you flamed me for it?

I got roasted pretty bad and even apologized to Steve-O for it in person. But hey, it turns out he got certified and has gained a lot of experience, and I respect him for that. He's been doing a great job as far as I can tell and he's a pretty nice guy. It also seems he shares my opinion now regarding certification, imagine that.

Btw, I still believe instructors should be certified... but it is obvious that the training required for some certifications at the moment is not quite up to the level it should be. That IS a problem, but it's a problem of the certifying agency, not the certification itself. And of course there are some great instructors who are not certified... but that is usually because they let their certification lapse, not because they were never trained to begin with.

You may want to turn on ABC. I think the soap operas are starting.

Exactly... enjoy.

[Steve-O]

For the record....Randy called the shop today. Apparently he was knee deep in the accident and has this kids kite.

We take down all information of customers that buy kites for warranty purposes....and we don't have any record of this kid buying a kite from us.

For what it is worth, anyone can get gear at any time and go try and fly. It is the self policing at the beach which is going to make the biggest impact of all.

I think we all can agree on this.

Thanks for the info... any idea of what happened? (Equipment failure or not)

[Woodson]

Steve-O,

I agree.


We should handle this without emotion and as a business while being as proactive as possible...

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by toby wilson

You may want to turn on ABC. I think the soap operas are starting.

I've been on these forums as long as you have, and it's always you instigating things and then bitching about it afterwords.

Just let it go... he has a personal problem with me, it's obvious, and thats fine. I just need to learn to ignore it. I got suckered into responding.

[amber]

Part of why its taken me a year to feel comfortable without someone definitely looking out for me is because i was reading these posts and seeing the scares and kites in trees at the skyway, etc before i picked up the trainer kite. I did take a lesson at REAL as well as with Steve after he was certified and learned some safety stuff, but my main instructor as you all know was Toby and although we argued a lot, the majority of it was based on the fact that safety was always BOTH of our main priorities Him being worried about me and me being scared to death that something bad was going to happen . It wasn't about speedy progression or learning to jump right away. It was about getting to know my kite and my control of it. The IKO instructors ARE required to LEARN and DEMONSTRATE TEACHING many safety skills including self rescue, etc. If they are not implementing this into their curriculum, that is their choice. I beleive that no one should even be able to BUY a kite without previously proficiently flying a trainer kite and be able to talk about wind window, safe launching practices and body dragging. Kites are a great way for people to make money but as in this instance demonstrates that it can come back and bite you in the A$$ if that is your objective.

We've discussed this many times before. I am no great rider, but i have walked up to someone i didn't recognize at the beach, introduced myself and intiate a conversation about their kiting background. This is nonconfrontational and an effective way to judge if the person is ready for our sacred launches that we don't want to lose as well as a great way to meet some cool new people. I am ALWAYS referring people to some of the local instructors that i have seen with my own eyes with a focus on safety and that includes matt and mike, steve and steve-o, and a few others. Learning from my boyfriend didn't make me a risk to everyone on the water because we always tried to be smart about it.

I think this thread needs to end soon because we are all on the team here and all want the same ultimate goal and its just getting ugly. Safe, fun, stress-free kiting!!

So for those of us that frequently read and post on the forum... i expect that next time we're at the beach and people are either inquiring about lessons or after discussion clearly haven't been trained in the safety aspects of the sport (and this includes going by the rocks, the bridge, etc) we politely tell the person that they NEED lessons before they should ride here because people have gotten really hurt and that good lessons can provide some of the skills to save their a$$ one day too.

So... season is coming...we're all cranky cuz we haven't ridden in a while, most of us haven't even seen each other in a while. We are a team and we need to follow the same pattern CONSISTENLY when dealing with the inevitable new riders. take the 5 minutes to talk to them on the beach. It gives the chance to save you or your buddy.

Till then, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the water with all of you. I'm ALMOST going upwind (i know...slow progression) but i'm finally having fun and not having to trudge thru the muck anymore and appreciate people "keeping an eye on me" as I will for all of my co-riders as well. Whether its equipment failure or knowledge failure or just a very fast accident, we look out for each other. Period.

In the future, if I see a kiter who I deem a threat to his own safety, I am going to politely approach this kiter and talk with him. I have done this since day one.
Before I approach him, I usually look for 2 other kiters that I believe have the same thought process as myself and ask them to help with the "safety speech" to persuade the rider not to ride, to take lessons, (whatever that scenario holds).
I know a few who I can depend on (including Raul, Tom, Steve S., Scott W., Toby and others) to tactfully help in this type of scenario. Steve S. noticed a total novice about a year ago at the backside, asked me to help him "give the speech" and we helped stop a problem before it happened in a very positive manner thanks to his observation and actions.

Anyone who believes in this approach of politely policing our spots, just tell Raul, me, Steve etc. next time out. We will eventually have a group of responsible riders that cooperate and in a tactful and civil manner assure continued access to our spots.

This isn't a gestapo statement, btw, pretty far from it. I don't foresee shutting down every newb out there or doing a full body search prior to riding. That's not what this is about. It's about shutting down the totally incompetent rider quickly and effectively before they end up embedded in the side of a truck with their kite headed toward the interstate.
It's easy enough to spot them most of the time. The thing is, often decisions have to be made very quickly after the rider's clueless-ness is determined. (b/c it is often not obvious until they go to launch improperly or crash the kite 4 times in a row right near shore immediately after launching) etc.

It'd be nice to know very quickly when responding to these scenarios who we can depend on to "jump in" and help quickly by just yelling their name and knowing they are going to follow your lead and help (kind of like who is on the volunteer fire fighters squad or something) as opposed to having them question your actions.
Helpers would be helping secure the person, the kite and then help with a polite but firm speech. This, imo, should never approach anything close to a fight or intimidation. At the same time though, I can tell you from personal experience that giving the "speech" alone while others sit and watch passively is moderately ineffective without raising your voice and acting aggressive for some, because some interpret the apathy of other kiters as indicating that the one guy giving the speech is some kind of safety whack job with extreme views that aren't agreed upon among the group.

Anyway, if you think you would be interested in helping out, just approach me next time out there and we will begin to get a group of friendly but persuasive helpers as an alternative to suicide by kite. I hope this scenario only happens 3 to 10 times all season. It'd be nice if we successfully responded to each one before a possibly bad outcome. In the past we have been a little lax, imo, about stopping a problem before it happens.

If you don't want to be involved, no worries, just don't volunteer.