Rickenbacker BANNED

[Whitey]

I am very sorry to hear about this ban. but "call the IRS"?????

@ Bimini Kiteboarding

How would you feel after setting up shop at your location that in a time frame of 6 months you loose your concession, and thus your income. Great spot waves and water, but someone ****ed it up, your next riders meeting will be where ...

You could be forewarned !

BSO post pictures of those in jail with mugshots.
http://sheriff.org/about_bso/admin/m...pk=149&sType=N
We would like to know who ruins it for us ! Just because the moderator "feels" it is not right, we do not know these people. Instead having an open database, we now must rely on "worth of mouth". And that worked as it showed. Let the internet finally work in OUR favor !

I want to know which clown I am riding with, and especially if he does not have the same interest in the spot I frequent.
Due to this lack of pro activeness, we are loosing spots instead of winning the authorities over and getting approval for more spots to ride.

Soccer bans players who do not behave. Many sports have public interest and hence have public "hangings". NFL surely patrols there players on and off the field. Baseball, basketball, golf etc all work to set role models and do not tolerate those who do not fit in. This sport is too big and has so many riders that we need more access. So many business have been created in the last 10 years in South Florida that rely on kiteboarding as primary income. Any further loss of access will certainly hurt their bottom line.

Maybe it is time to protect our limited resources and see a brighter and bigger future. This IS the time to find out so we know !

!

[Unimog Bob]

I don't get it either. Apparently the internet has no purpose in terms of self policing. After all, "they know who they are, and so do those who give a damn".

Imo, anyone truly interested in protecting spots that are in obvious danger of being lost needs to make efforts to work with authorities to set up some basic rules and work to give the authorities the ability to impose fines on individuals, as opposed to ban an entire group. I can't see the cops passing up the ability to make a few hundred a day myself (or have a non-problem if people don't break the simple rules). In this case, it's clear that no one was suppose to be in the swim zones. Why not just let authorities profit from the few who break this simple rule? It's probably harder than this, but maybe not.

I personally am not a fan of cops, rules or regs. BUT, if it starts to become clear that a spot might be lost in St. Pete, I would be the first stating to the authorities that most riders pose no threat to others in the area and that maybe we could reach a compromise to a ban. I did that once years ago, and if necessary, will do it again.
In the case of local beaches with "beach cops", discussing very basic rules with associated fines seem like the best approach. Primarily because it pays for authorities' time to deal with yahoos and gives them incentive (money) to deal with individuals as opposed to banning groups.

Again, not a huge fan of talking with authorities, but if a few well spoken and responsible riders do this proactively, then it seems better than having the least well spoken and least responsible rider cussing at an authority person after they rode like a jerk. At this point in time, I see no problems in St. Pete and therefore have begun no discussions.
As I said though, about 7 years ago we got banned from North Beach (Ft. DeSoto) and it seemed like East Beach was next. I talked to the park ranger and and it turned out well. Primarily because he was level headed.
I think when presenting such an argument, it is important to persuade the "guy in charge" that indeed a vast majority of kiters pose no threat and policing of them would be relatively easy. If you can't do that, your argument is doomed.

[Whitey]

If you attempt to use the authorities to enforce your rules and the idiot is disrespectful to the authority while he is doing the enforcement, you see what you get. You get banned all together. It's easier for them to ban you than put up with crap from the bad apples. If the local riders approach him and he gives them crap your not banned.

[Unimog Bob]

Is it not also possible to simply have that idiot fined and then asked to leave? If a true arrangement involving legal regulations/fines was made between the authorities, that is about all they could do legally is fine the individual breaking a law. The last time I saw a person break a law driving, the cops didn't take away my license or shut down that road forever.

In addition, the last couple times I have approached local instructors jumping kids or whatever (with 3 to 4 other kiters by my side making the same plea to stop), we got blown off and no change in behavior occurred. Why? Some people don't respond to rational pleas, they only respond to punishment. I would argue that not having legal authority over obviously improper actions sets us all up to fail b/c of the actions of a few. Some riders will just keep "doing what they do" until a kid is landed on or similar.

I understand the "approach authorities and lose all rights" arguments, though. When I approached the Ft. DeSoto authorities after NB was banned, most local riders told me I was making a huge mistake and many were pissed (there were about 15 of us back then). I did it anyway. Why? Well, we were a week away from being banned altogether. Not much to lose, imo.

Again, if it looks likely that a ban is likely to occur locally, I know I will be in there talking to someone. Primarily because I feel I speak (and listen) better than most and am willing to roll the dice on my abilities, rather than leave it up to someone else or fate. I would also hope that guys like you, Steve S, Steve-O, Scott W, Danny and many others could agree to get together for one day, remain calm, and present ourselves well.

I hear your concerns, Craig. Trust me, I do. I have heard the argument a hundred times. In addition, I am a guy that has been wronged by authorities, so I am not a big fan. However, sometimes the lesser of two evils in some situations must be made.
The way I see it if a spot is in serious jeopardy, sitting back is sending the authorities the "white flag/surrender" signal. By doing nothing, this almost insures they will choose the easy road, which is banning us all. That is the easy road for them, btw. Talking and showing that a group is willing to stand up makes it apparent that the easy road does not and will not exist for them.

I hope it's obvious my discussion is in regards to fending off an obvious ban, not willy nilly begging for rules from cops.
To be honest though, I do wish the beach had a few very simple and enforceable laws. Not because I love laws, but because these laws could greatly limit the odds of a bather getting really hurt by a kiter riding less than 30 feet from shore. When this incident does occur, it will increase the odds of the authorities having a knee jerk reaction and banning us all.
If a no-ride-close-to-shore law already existed, I suspect the kiter that hit the bather would be totally screwed (unfortunate) and the rest of us might be okay.

-Scott

[BigR]

I don't know why the very minority few bad apples in Miami are soo agro towards the lone authority figures that are in charge of maintaining access to our best spots

[ricki]

There is a good chance this site wouldn't have been banned if there had been some fines issued along with the efforts in the kiting community to keep Hobie open. You can only go so far with self enforcement in a large transient metropolitan area like Miami. We can only ask and reason, the authorities can fine and arrest. No one wants to see another kiter deal with a several hundred dollar fine or the consequences of arrest. Still, if they refuse to see reason and act responsibly placing the privileges of the kiting community at risk, as has been the case, it would be worth trying. To my knowledge no such fines or even arrests have happened at Hobie unlike some other areas like Crandon Park. We asked for enforcement but were not given encouraging responses. Cutbacks in public funding is perhaps one reason, still I think a few cases might have helped keep this place open.

With our legal system, unless folks want to pony up several thousand dollars, or more, into a defense fun, we need to go without names. That still leaves a lot of things that can be effectively done. Just the way it is.

[kent]

Clearly Hobie wasn't closed this weekend. There were quite a few kites out Sunday so the process must be on going.

I agree with you Rick, it's kind of like banning all driving because of a few drunk drivers. I'd have hoped that the cswy people would have been more proactive and taken advantage of some of the suggestions that were made by all at the last meeting.

Kick out and fine the illegals and post a slow speed sign for inside the buoys. I'd also suggest that kiters riding that fast near swimmers and the beach could be considered to be operating at an unsafe speed and could be guilty of endangerment.

We need help and the J-offs will leave.