Time to get organized.. stop the b.s. and get some stuff done.

[amber]

the problem is that it seems not many new people still feel "terrified to get in someone's way" like many of us did. I always feel more secure knowing that somenoe is "keeping an eye on me" just in case.

[oldschool]

ya' I am old school but here is how I have seen it done and got it done ...

ya' see someone who is irresponsible you just have to have some nads, go up to him (or her) and say you are a danger to yourself and others and get off the beach

I have seen this happen on the back side of the skyway once and at Desoto (and I really respected the kiters that stood up and did it)

we have a couple kooks that kite periodically in SRQ and Venice and we just tell 'em to go home and get lessons

this swill piss some kiters (newbees) off but it is the simplest and most immediate way to GET RID of a problem

OS/Sarasota

[bryanleighty]

oldschool..

problem w/ that is that you dont know who is the newbie or not..
2 seasons ago i knew everyone at every launch i did..

last season I might have recognized 25%.

its a zoo out there.

i think a single color to signify "competent" & single color to signify "mentor" would be fine..

new riders would not have a band .... would never want to put a "newbie" band on anyone and no one would want it that way.

i am thinking something that attaches to the back of the harness or clips to the safety leash.

basic scenario would go something like this:

you are at the beach.. see someone rigging and they dont have a color band / harness clip thingy and you simply go up and talk to them..
they say they are visiting from somewhere and have been riding for 2 years then you say .. cool have fun..
no band needed..

or..
they say they are local and just got lessons and you tell them about the color bands and let them know that once they are up to competent level they should get one so that they are not questioned every time they show up at a beach.

if they are backside you might say "hey .. this is not a place for beginners.. you should go to ***** instead.. "..

if this is a positive thing for all, it will more accepted. if its used as a way to discriminate against new riders, then its absolutely pointless.

we would need to agree on who could distribute the bands.. should not cost anyone a single cent.. just something they can wear to show they know what they are doing so us old folks on the beach dont have to wonder about every single unfamiliar face we see.

we might need to get a handful of locals together at the undertow to talk specifics..

[Wolfie]

I think the labeling system is a kick ass idea and will help however I can! I too would be happy to provide my limit knowledge to anyone and help out anyone who looks to be in trouble. I will sign up to be a "mentor" if we are going to get this thing going.
As for fixed signs at Skyway...who would you even ask? And is it worth asking the DOT to have one there? I'm not sure I would temp fate on that one quite yet. East beach might be easier, since the rangers there seem to be comfortable with us and we are more "legitimate" there.

Hey oldskool..thats a bad idea. If im doing something wrong show me the right way to do it like someone showed you. You come over and tell me to get off the beach your probably gonna get your ass kicked. This is the wrong way to go about this. Most of us are adults and will welcome constructive critisizim(?) But telling someone to get outa here......not so good.

[TampaBay Noob]

you could just laminate some green paper and put some symbol or signature on from whoever hands the cards out. Then just put a metal clip on it and walla. Should be cost effective and the signature could verify authenticity.

[TritonKiteboarding]

id be happy to help eat the costs with the school funding we got for the club this year, including but not limited to signs at beach, Locals Bands/ Distribution, built in air compressors @ EB and Skyway, Safety Clinics for local officials, St. Pete Beach Police, ECSAR, St Pete Police, Local Coast Guard, Desoto park Rangers, ect...

If anyone has local contacts with people to coordinate these things it would be appreciated, I already have the ECSAR, and police contacts covered.
-TritonKiteboarding.com

[DanB]

I support Bryan 100% percent - It is getting worse every year.

My suggestion is we draft a simple charter 1 page - we can borrow from many I have seen on-line and get the colors down and what type of band thing.

We don't have to wait and get everyone on board if enough of us start it then we can use the upcoming season to promote it.

I also would think some bumper stickers would work well to promote and identify anyone who is part of the organization.

Eckerd College Search and Rescue seems like a winner for sure. They don't have any real authoritative power to tell us what to do, but at the same time could offer great assistance in a time of need.

Several people, especially E-bone, have brought up some valid points about self-regulation and the exclusion of outside authority, hence the term self regulation. E-bone's view, if I remember correctly, was that by inviting the authorities (people with the power to pass regulations) to the table, we are potentially inviting regulation on our kiting activities that might vary from what we actually would like (a ban for instance). His points seem valid and we might want to consider in greater detail having discussions with the police. I don't know. I obviously have talked to some authority figures in the past, and as I recall, caught hell for it.

It might be a good idea if we successfully figure out how to police ourselves and prove how responsible we are to ourselves before we try to include outside authorities. Just a thought. I don't know the right answer.

I kind of like the band idea, but am a little unsure on it's final goal. The "problem" at hand, that several of us have agreed to it seems, is that riders that can't consistently ride upwind probably shouldn't be at the SW and they pose a threat to themselves and our access. Is that the consensus?

If so, how are we going to make sure that riders that can't sufficiently hold ground and maneuver around riders not ride at the SW?
Isn't that one of the primary self policing issues? A sign seems cool, but it just sits there. Ultimately a real live person enforces what the sign says, right? Who and how is that going to happen?

Telling a totally clueless person to put down their gear is black and white and quite simple for me to do. Telling a person to hop off the water due to a qualitative judgment gets trickier.

Or do I have it totally backwards? Are we going to basically all take on one kiter under our wing each session and make sure they get back to the launch area at the SW after they drift to the rocks? Are we each going to wrap up their "lesson" to the point that they are somewhat competent?

There has to be a reasonable approach in there somewhere. Don't instructors often evaluate their own students and give them some sort of skill level ranking? Maybe we could have a SW level ranking. It gets tricky fast, no doubt.

[Optionryder420]

The people that are going to cause problems at the beach past having a few people just talk to them, are always going to cause problems.

If having someone talk to that person and tell them they really shouldn't be riding and it's a danger and they blow them off, how is a colored piece of cloth, or a sign going to help?

The furthest that we should have to go is to have someone or a few people tell the person they're a danger and they need more lessons.

Having signs out there wouldn't solve anything. Because if there are signs there stating rules, and somebody breaks the rules and gets hurt, wouldn't it open up liability for the land owner? You know, since there's nobody there enforcing the rules, it's that persons fault.

For instance, take east beach for example.
We place a sign.
New guy comes out doesn't see it. Gets somebody to launch the kite, or launches it himself. Someone stops the person, tells him about the sign, and he goes and reads it.
New guy decides he's above the rules on the sign (which we all would be anyways since it's just a random sign we concocted and placed without actually having any legal rules).
New guy launches anyways and gets hurt.
He could claim the rules were there, but he didn't see them or there was nobody there to tell him they were there.
New guy decides to press charges against the park.
Park is pissed, bans kiting.

The only way I'd support a sign or any of the other stuff is if it was official. Which I wouldn't want either because if the rules are being enforced, people would be caught breaking them all the time and sooner or later the spot would be banned.

We want to police ourselves without being noticed. A sign is a bad idea. The wristband idea isn't bad, but I don't see it as really working. There are far too many kiters to get them out to everyone whom rides.

I'm not even worried about the beginners so much as the guys whom are jumping WAY too close to shore and jumping in other people's way constantly.
This is an issue that REALLY needs to be addressed. If a new ignorant guy whom has never taken lessons gets hurt, it can be seen as just the guy who grabbed a huge kite and tried to do something stupid. Now, if a more advanced rider goes out and gets hurt/hurts others then we will be more viewed as a whole.

Take for instance Josh (I'm not picking on Josh, I actually never see him jump really close to shore hence why I'm using him).
Let's say Josh is riding off of Redington Beach, jumping close to shore, throwing mobes, showing off for the ladies, and just having a great time. Then on a jump really close to shore something breaks, or something goes wrong and he smashes into a girl, a really hot one even. How will it make us look that one of our Best riders caused such an accident? People will pull for a ban on kiting because if such a competent rider can still cause such an accident then nobody will want ANY riders near them.

Just my $.02