More newbies making bad decisions at the Skyway

[shogun1204]

Yeah I washed my phone out with Fresh water and letting it dry off. I am hoping that it will be ok, but I am planing for the worse. I already bought another cell phone. I have a feeling that my phone is toast. Its one of those PDA phones with the big touch screen LCD. Those screen really dont like water for some reason. LOL Like I said no big deal, I would destroy my phone again to help a rider out. I am just glad no one got hurt and everyone is ok.


I did get some great pictures of there kitse all tangled up. (They are funny to look at now) LOL

Oh yeah and some picture of E-bone doing his new signature move. I like to call it the "E-Bone Entrance Only" LOL. Bascially Ebone unhooks. Turns around shows his favorite Entrance on his body to the 50 year olds guys sitting in there cars on the beach! LOL

[toby wilson]

Tom, I am just describing what I saw. Let me ask you a question...Does your Wife kite? I already know the answer is no. Well I had Amber on the water (well upwind) at the same time. She is almost ready to be set loose on her own. Now imagine your Wife attached to a kite that another newbie tangles with and all of the sudden they start to get drug. Would it be such a laid back mistake then? Probably not.

Make low blows all you want, I am the first to admit my faults and have even done so in this thread, jokingly downplayed by Bryan but a rider error nonetheless. If I remember correctly, I also posted a thread MYSELF about my looping experience on the beach at the backside into the tree. I posted them criticizing MYSELF Tom, no you didn't post it nor anyone else. Just like I post ALL of my dumb moves out here in hopes that someone might learn from my mistakes before making the same ones themselves. How do you know we all lost our boards in the Gulf? Because I manned up and posted it. Plus you don't seem to have all of the information because I didn't lose my board in the Gulf. I had 2 QR malfunctions and lost my KITE in the Gulf and the 2 riders I was with lost their boards trying to help me retrieve the kite. One was retrieved and I am helping the other guy to get a new one (financially) because it was seen being "stolen" from the water. I am pretty sure that most other kiters would just say "that sucks" and be done with it.

You weren't there so I see no reason for you to throw low blows at those who were and are just describing what happened. I have plenty of newbie perspective, I was one just last year and Amber is one this year. If the 2 guys who were helping to retrieve the kites say the situation was dangerous, it was. Scott was watching from the beach.

If I remember correctly Tom, you are the one who was questioning a local instructor's abilities and mocking his qualifications. Take a hard look in the mirror before criticizing a thread of this nature my friend.

Both kiters in question were anonymous to all until Scott named one of them...I didn't call anyone out but rather described a bad situation that easily could have been worse. The intent was not to discourage anyone. Just ask Dale Alexander, a newbie who is coming out with his Wife to learn...I am all about newcomers...SAFE newcomers. If Scotts friend was safe other than this, that is great. Fact is, a mistake was made and I hope both kiters learn a lesson from it.

Originally Posted by toby wilson

Make low blows all you want, I am the first to admit my faults and have even done so in this thread, jokingly downplayed by Bryan but a rider error nonetheless.

Nah, it wasn't a personal attack...I said this is something we ALL go through including you. Read it again, slower this time.

If I remember correctly Tom, you are the one who was questioning a local instructor's abilities and mocking his qualifications

What qualifications? He's been riding for a year! Should he be teaching kiteboarding professionally for a local shop? *I* don't think so, but my opinion is different than everyone else's so I accepted that and moved on.

I am all about newcomers...SAFE newcomers.

Safety starts with the instructor. After that it's something they build on from experience.

The flat glassy water and SS glides in the photo are fairly telling. Wish I was there.. looks like a nice lazy cruising day.

The newbies don't need to take this thread as a shot at them. That's not been the tone of this thread. What is being noted is a bad kiteboarding decision and the possible outcome of same. What we have done here is discuss why tangling kites is a bad idea and what can be done to prevent it. As a community, we should be able to talk about these issues.

When I nearly got waxed by that 9m Waroo in early 2006, I was right on the forum with an explanation of what went wrong and how it could be avoided. 4 of the 5 factors leading to the kitemare were avoidable (and my own errors) which allowed the 5th factor, a design flaw, to kick in. After getting a serious woodshed beatdown, I readily admitted to my own mistakes that led to the kitemare. I don't gloss over my own mistakes and I won't look the other way when people f*ck up in a way that can impact everyone.

The idea here is for kiters, particularly beginners, to avoid other kiters on the water. In very light wind, the results of a tangle was not catastrophic but was still bad for them and the rest of us. It ended their sessions, nearly ripped the Waroo (and I surprised it didn't rip from trailing to leading edge), led to Roy having his phone trashed (danger invites rescue, as Justice Cardozo once said, and Roy responded by trying to jump in to help), and the whole snafu caused the Bone to have a minor kitemare flashback.

This is not even a true kitemare, as some have pointed out. The photo Roy posted was from a December 2006 session but it was not very windy yesterday at the time of the tangle, maybe 12 or so, if that. I was on a Gilde and a 12m yesterday, so it wasn't honking. There was no blood, either, so I don't think this was a real kitemare. Real kitemares keep you awake and thinking for several nights afterward.

Still, the potential for carnage was there. The actual outcome here is not the only stick by which the problem should be measured. Scott and I charged yesterday afternoon in the hope for a 20mph session just before sundown--hell, we were sure it was going to go off. The wind never kicked in but it usually does, without warning, under those weather circumstances. The outcome of such a tangle had the wind jacked up could have been severe. The newbies, as well as every other beginner around here, deserve feedback regarding that potential outcome.

I have spent a lot of time within the last year pointing out newbie errors because I think that local newbies, not hotdogs, are at the most risk for being in a kite mishap this year resulting in injury or death because the new gear, when used as designed, allows for so much depower, leading in some riders to a false sense of security. When the gear is misued, however, whether through improper rigging, leash use or nonuse, hot launches, tangles, etc., you suddenly have a ton of power that is out of control.

I look forward to seeing both of these newbies, toward whom I have no animus, developing into solid members of the local crew. Still, no one, particularly a beginner, is above having his or her riding discussed by others when that riding is being done at our main kiteboarding launches.

On another note, Roy, that new trick is actually called the "Bottoms Up." Everyone can keep hating on the Bone but when I throw that trick, especially at Backside, I always end the session with lots of cash stuffed into my harness. Gotta pay for new gear somehow.

[shogun1204]

Oh sorry, that picture was from a session back in December. I got some pictures of the BONE doing is new HOT trick too. I just have not posted them on my site. I was just trying to lighten up the mood.

I should have pictures up by tomorrow of the shots I took. Got some pretty good one of Bryan E and Steve S. Remeber if you ever want a picture just yell at me when you see me at the beach and I would be more than happy to get you a little photo session. LOL

Yeah I am very sad E-Bone did pop out the Hello Kitty! I really wanted to get that on film! I have so many request for a shot of the Bone doing his infamous Hello Kitty! LOL Maybe I will get bored and have to work some magic with photoshop one day!

I would say when it all went down it was about 14 knots, but everything thought it was going to pick up to above 20. I am really glad that it didnt now.


My Bad, I will make sure that it is always called the "Bottoms UP" now. Even though I think "E-Bone's Entrance Only" has a better ring to it. Man maybe I need to bust out this move so I can get that extra cash like you so I can afford all the gear you have! LOL

[Steve-O]

Some info on Rick Day. Many of you have seen Damien's vid of him getting some huge air off of sand dunes in ????. In talking with Damien today at the demo, which Rick was at also, Damo mentioned that Rick was at the dune when Damien was attempting some crazy stuff. Rick also tried to do the same thing. There were some other pros at this spot that wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Damo tried to talk Rick out of it as well as tell his girlfriend that he was going to get really hurt if not killed. His girlfriend replied "he is a daredevil". Upon some of Rick's attempts, he took some really bad falls down the dune. Damo and company couldn't stand to watch and didn't want to be around to see death..... So they left.

Point being, Rick will take some incredible risk with a kite. We have seen what the outcomes of his decisions are. Speaking with him today, he still seems to not take much responsibility for his actions. Like the newbies today, he kind of shrugs it off.

I am not sure where to go from here, but the next windy, crowded day on the water with Rick could be fine but could not.

I have not ridden this area for that long. Have we had any types of riders like this in the past? What has been done about it? What can we do about it? Does self regulation work?

We will all need to take the newbies under our wing and use our knowledge, experience, and skill to rescue them from a bad situation. We will need to insist more lesson time for someone that looks really shaky. We should put a little pressure on these folks that take a few hours of lessons and then try to figure out the rest on their own. It is ultimately the experiences one's that are left to pick up the mess. But what do we do about the "daredevil's" that don't see themselves as "dare-devils"?

Dennis is in a nasty situation with no easy ending to his problem. IMO Dennis got of lucky. It could have been alot worse.

Scott, you are right. The sport is blowing up....it can't be stopped. It is more fun on the water than the law allows. This sport is like buying a race car that flies and mixing new and old on a track the size of a football field.

The situation WILL only get worse not better. I think rider certification is inevitable for these populated spots. It is a big can of worms, but anyone got any better ideas? Not just anyone can show up at Sebring and ride the track. You have to join a club, sign paperwork, and prove yourself. It is a process that keeps a dangerous sport safer than without it.

Finally, I hope we don't look back after a serious injury or death and say "we could have fixed this...this could have been avoided." We all talk about self regulating the sport, but maybe it is time some serious discussion is had about our issues, our future, and maybe becoming a unified front that share the same values in keeping this sport safe for everyone....new and old alike.

It will be a tough road and already is....but anything worth doing as you know takes effort.

[bryanleighty]

Originally Posted by Steve-O

"he is a daredevil".

Not for dune jumping..

but..

For returning to local beaches after refusing to be responsible for his actions.

[toby wilson]

I'll definitely second Bryans comment...

Steve, this is a tricky situation which may get trickier. In my first post about Rick (which I deleted upon request from Dennis for legal reasons) I made it clear that newbies with a limited skill set were, imo, in a totally different league than Rick. I went out of my way to point that out and also to say that this was the first time I ever put a post up against a rider. I think posting about bad occurences rarely leads to anything and that action on scene should be taken.

There is a drastic difference between an innocent (very small, and one time made) mistake by a newbie that was made last night that may have lead to "carnage" in 20, but that actually didn't lead to much and a "repeat offender" that by all accounts, leaves a very strong impression in everyone's minds who encounters him. I believe the new riders last night won't intentionally repeat their mistake and obviously want to learn from it. I am also confident that prior to this thread riders understood that tangling kites is a no-no.

I am not convinced Rick is the same (in terms of learning from his repeated mistakes). His local forum is concerned as our we and now Damien says something. What to do? I don't know. But to me if a repeat "offender" isn't approached, who will be?

If we are going to honestly police this area, we need to (like Steve is attempting to do) agree on some basics or get a conversation going. It seems like a good idea.
However, repeated attempts have been made live (in meetings) and also made on seperate forums at making some agreements for over 5 years. Most conversations basically went nowhere. It's hard to agree as a group on anything, so I understand.

At this point I honestly believe that we are safer (as a group) than we were 3 years ago when we had less riders. The reason is that we can ride tighter with higher kites and most of the time not get tea bagged in gusts due to increased ability to spill wind.
I also think kiting is attracting respectful professional people out for a good time, so I am personally alot less worried and quite surprised at how well things are going (at least here).
3 years ago I honestly thought we had one season left.

I think what has kept this local scene so good and safe is the communication that exists at the launches and the helpfulness of the riders.

Steve-O, good post. I agree with everything you said including rider certs (which is already something that is happening).. except for comparing Rick to the newbies. Like Scott, I think Rick is something entirely different. Scott, your post is dead on.