fatality in SPI

yeah it happens a lot. I self launched in the dark at lassing in 25mph+ and my bridle caught the tip. Kite went to 12:00 and looked ok, then immediately looped. I got jacked. Punched out on impact and it looped again on my leash... jacked again... grabbed the leash release, timed it right and released as the kite was level with the trees (going into the third loop). Released the kite into the trees intentionally to avoid anyone getting hit beyond the trees.

Total distance tumbled, about 150-200 feet.

I've seen several people tangle a bridle in the water after a bad fall, and I've done it myself also after a bow kite inversion.

Also, more frequently, the bar gets tangled with the leash causing the exact same scenario but often you can't depower so in my opinion it's even worse.

In this case it was my completely fault. I landed to launch a buddy and then did a quick self launch without double checking the bridles first.

[ricki]

Thanks for the input Tom, glad you reacted well and quickly. I've been trying to get stories like this for some months. Suspicions about problems absent actual incident details don't go very far. What would you guess the wind speed was and what type and size kite were you using? What other sort of kites have you seen doing this? That is with wingtip tangles. You can tangle a bar on any kite going to my knowledge. Then again, maybe some bar designs are more prone than others?

[WindRyder]

Yes, it was a scary moment. It was probably blowing 25 with gusts over 30. Surf was building, and was probably 4-5ft at the time. It was getting to the point where people were leaving the beach because they were getting sandblasted.
Rick, yes, I was getting pulled by my leash only. At the time, I had it secured to the ring on the back of my seat harness, so when I was getting pulled, I was getting pulled backwards and under water. It is a Cabrinha release, so it was easy to grab and punch out. Now, I have moved it to the spreader bar, so if I do get pulled, it won't be backwards.

Originally Posted by RickI

Thanks for the input Tom, glad you reacted well and quickly. I've been trying to get stories like this for some months. Suspicions about problems absent actual incident details don't go very far. What would you guess the wind speed was and what type and size kite were you using? What other sort of kites have you seen doing this? That is with wingtip tangles. You can tangle a bar on any kite going to my knowledge. Then again, maybe some bar designs are more prone than others?

9m 2008 waroo, 25-30 knots (confirmed by ikite). My only experience with bridle tangles has been on 06,07, and 08 waroos. I've experienced the looping kite via tangled bar many times on both C kites (even with a 5th line) and bow kites. So there are many reasons a kite can go into the death spiral and it is not restricted to modern bridled kites. Any kite can do it, but bridles make it more likely.

We are fortunate these days to be aware of it and have QR's on our leashes. These days I do not hesitate to ditch the kite... not good I know but we don't have many options do we.

[ricki]

Originally Posted by WindRyder

Yes, it was a scary moment. It was probably blowing 25 with gusts over 30. Surf was building, and was probably 4-5ft at the time. It was getting to the point where people were leaving the beach because they were getting sandblasted.
Rick, yes, I was getting pulled by my leash only. At the time, I had it secured to the ring on the back of my seat harness, so when I was getting pulled, I was getting pulled backwards and under water. It is a Cabrinha release, so it was easy to grab and punch out. Now, I have moved it to the spreader bar, so if I do get pulled, it won't be backwards.

Thank you, you anticipated my next question. That was the point of attachment. I saw Andre Phillip pulled backward almost into a rock jetty with shortly after suicide leashes started being used at the Velocity Games in 2003. The idea of being pulled backwards at lightspeed is disturbing enough, being submerged and still setting the kite free is a very good thing. Well done! Don't blame you for moving the least attachment.

[ricki]

Originally Posted by Tom Stock

9m 2008 waroo, 25-30 knots (confirmed by ikite). My only experience with bridle tangles has been on 06,07, and 08 waroos. I've experienced the looping kite via tangled bar many times on both C kites (even with a 5th line) and bow kites. So there are many reasons a kite can go into the death spiral and it is not restricted to modern bridled kites. Any kite can do it, but bridles make it more likely.

We are fortunate these days to be aware of it and have QR's on our leashes. These days I do not hesitate to ditch the kite... not good I know but we don't have many options do we.

Thanks for the additional info, it is important to get into details like this, I appreciate it. I had heard some of the earlier Waroos would sometimes wrap a wingtip. I thought the tendency was reduced by the redesign of the bridle in later models. Still, you went through this recently with a 2008? I too have tangled lines on bars although the last time was years back on a C kite. I called what resulted the "corkscrew of death."

I wonder if flat kites and the new super depower C kites pull a lot harder and faster than comparable traditional C kites back in the day? If the angle of attack control works with these new kites there is no question you can carry a substantially larger kite easier in higher wind than with old C kites. Still, if that new kite enters into a high aspect radical turn in a powered looping state I wonder if the forces and speed are a lot higher than in the past? Might explain some of these rare cases of riders being looped to death. Guys would be pulled inverted and submerged even with two line kites, had that a few times myself. Still, I don't think the forces were quite as extreme.

Input on this? Also, more stories of looping newer kites would be very much appreciated. Until the industry is made aware of a problem it is unlikely that there will be much uniform resolution development.

I've been dragged by looping kites several times (unfortunately).
It sounds like Bryan may have seen the last one, about a month ago at EB.
I was trying to do megaloops all day (not so successful on most), and one time I pendulum'd under my kite so much the lines went slack momentarily.
I was steering the kite so hard that it allowed one of the rear lines to wrap around the bar. When the line went taut again, I was now attached to a looping kite that couldn't be steered (not so great).
It looped about 5 times (it wasn't ever going to stop because of the diameter of the loops) before I could Q'r out of the CL.
I was getting dragged in pretty fast (thank Goodness I was at least 200 yards out to start). Once I QRd the CL, the kite was dead momentarily. But, it then litt up again. When it did, I pulled the QR on the leash instantly. Matt was right next to me and saw most of it.

It was blowing 25 or so. If I was close to shore, I would have been injured very badly, no doubt about it, because I was basically body surfing until I QR'd due to the power in the kite.

I have had kite lines/bridles get "stuck" on the struts most near the wingtip of a kite after it crashed, Rick, and then start looping.
The worst offender (of the kites I have ridden) was the 2006 Ozone Instinct. It did it at least 3 times to me. I am confident Ozone fixed the problem in 07 and 08's kites. It was a real concern for me on the 06 though.

[ricki]

Originally Posted by Skyway Scott

I've been dragged by looping kites several times (unfortunately).
It sounds like Bryan may have seen the last one, about a month ago at EB.
I was trying to do megaloops all day (not so successful on most), and one time I pendulum'd under my kite so much the lines went slack momentarily.
I was steering the kite so hard that it allowed one of the rear lines to wrap around the bar. When the line went taut again, I was now attached to a looping kite that couldn't be steered (not so great).
It looped about 5 times (it wasn't ever going to stop because of the diameter of the loops) before I could Q'r out of the CL.
I was getting dragged in pretty fast (thank Goodness I was at least 200 yards out to start). Once I QRd the CL, the kite was dead momentarily. But, it then litt up again. When it did, I pulled the QR on the leash instantly. Matt was right next to me and saw most of it.

It was blowing 25 or so. If I was close to shore, I would have been injured very badly, no doubt about it, because I was basically body surfing until I QR'd due to the power in the kite.

I have had kite lines/bridles get "stuck" on the struts most near the wingtip of a kite after it crashed, Rick, and then start looping.
The worst offender (of the kites I have ridden) was the 2006 Ozone Instinct. It did it at least 3 times to me. I am confident Ozone fixed the problem in 07 and 08's kites. It was a real concern for me on the 06 though.

What size and type were you using at EB? Once again, quick correct actions saved the day. Five loops in that speed of wind isn't much, your reactions were good. What do you do to prepare for this sort of thing?

It seems most of the memorable cases of this have happened in higher wind. The only time I had it happen was with a 16 m 2006 Waroo in real light wind upon solo launch on the land. It looped fairly slowly and with minimal power, still managed to drag me a bit before I ditched the lot. The wind was so light, around 11 to 12 mph it flew a short distance and sat on the beach.

Please keep the detailed stories coming in.

Thanks!

It was a 9m kite in 25. Imo, once the winds hit 20, especially 25 or more is when the wind really gets powerful and this stuff is no joke (as you already know, Rick). If you haven't seen Danny get yanked out of the water in 35, check this out after he lands. He gets totally airborne twice after his botched landing. His kite isn't even doing "all that much" after he lands, definitely not looping. He is big guy and still gets pulled out of the water and goes for a ride (twice.. second one got cutoff mid flight).
If his kite looped 5 times in that... yikes...no way...... did you see how far the first one took him!?? LOL He would have covered a couple hundred yards and been going mach 2 in a death looping kite scenario http://gallery.mac.com/scottfears#100049

In terms of "practicing". It makes it hard to grab anything when your arms are getting pinned back and stuff by the pressure of the water, so it's hard to mimic the situation to truly practice it. Using Danny's clip, how to you "practice" getting yarded like that?
But, I would have to say that the faster you start trying to get your QR or unhook or whatever, the better off you are. Hesitation just steals time.
Danny did activate his QR immediately after that last teabag.

It's my opinion that some QRs should be called "good luck finding and activating me in an emergency at all Releases" let alone called "Quick".
Some are definitely more challenging than others and not as quick. Given the nature of the situation, the QR should be as easy to get to and activate as possible, imo. The situation makes things hard enough.

Imo, the ones that consist of a loop and on one side are some of the worse options. Especially if the loop is not rigid. A good example of a non-rigid loop is the Best QR. It's a bad design, imo. One step up is a very rigid loop, like Ozone, but it's still a loop on one side.
Possibly the worse I have seen, imo, is what Slingshot had a couple years ago (maybe still do) with the little red knob on one side. Finding and grabbing that while getting rag dolled isn't easy, especially if you are wearing gloves. I suspect a SS guy is going to hop on and tell me otherwise... but after not being able to grab and activate mine once, my opinion is formed.

Still my opinion, and I can state one, is that the Cabrinha/Ironheart/similar omnidirectional grab-push approach is the best. You can feel where QR is the easiest (without having to see it) and activated it easiest, imo. I was under the impression that Best was going to switch to that type this season, and they did not. I was disappointed.

I remember when I was getting dragged at EB on that day, having to visually spot my QR loop and put my finger in it. Sounds easy enough... not. Each time I was about to put my finger in it, I would get tumbled and my hand pushed back a little. Let's just say I was grateful when I finally (on the third try I think) did get my finger in it, and pulled. I don't think I had but a couple seconds until I was gonna get dragged onshore into vehicles at a decent clip. I am confident an omnidirectional push release would have been much less challenging to activate.

[kite-4-life]

I don't have any death loop stories, but I have witnessed a few. I think that kites with bigger/more intricate bridle and pulley systems are more prone to wingtip wraps. Also the amount of throw on the bar may have something to do with the line around the bar scenario, as well as making it more prone to inversion.
The kites I fly (FDK's) bridles are simple and close to the LE and I have never had a problem. I aslo use a SS Surefire spreader bar, which has a simple "slap and go" release. It is harder to hook in and out, but to me its a fair trade. If I swing under the kite and it starts to Hindenburg- I hit the release instantly. It has always given me an extra way out(on any kite) and has never failed. The spinning leash was great "technology" for a few months, but not feasible for modern shredding. One good point about the leash is that it was attached to the spreader bar and impossible to rig wrong.
I would like to see manufacturers inprove on the design and offer a Surefire type safety(with bigger hook), bungee leash attached to spreader bar, and a side to side swivel for toeside/blind riding. Using high quality, marine grade metals would be a plus also.
BTW, the slap release is on the left,and if you hook the other CL safety on the right, you have options for releasing with either hand.