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  #1  
Old 09-22-2010, 10:19 AM
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Danimal8199 Danimal8199 is offline
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Default Lassing Park Report for 09/21/2010

Just wanted to check in here on the forum and provide a little insight into some things i saw at lassing park last night.

This season is upon us and in terms of riding etiquette and good riding practices some people need to get "UP-on" some of these recommendations.

1) if you are new we all understand because we were all new at one point. if you are at lassing park, don't practice body drags through the middle of the riding area, please move out past the sand bar. Plus you are more likely to not cut yourself up dragging though the muck.

2) with plenty of kiters standing around on the beach there is no need to try and self launch.

3) with plenty of kiters standing around on the beach there is no need to try and self land

I really don't care about the safety of you kiting gear, if you want to crash it on the ground or drag it through the grass to get scraped up on something thats your business, but don't risk the safety of the passers by and the locals who walk their dogs/kids there.

4) We all think tricks are cool, learning them can be fun, but its more fun for everyone when you don't do it 10 feet from shore.

I know that the people that did this stuff probably aren't reading this forum but its good info to pass along and for beginners to read as well.

Danny
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:29 AM
Water Monkey Water Monkey is offline
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Default not good....

Good points that are common sense to pretty much any avid kiterboarder (hopefully!)....I say next time you tell them to take a drive to east beach. Lassing should be 'off-limits' to beginners. Its a great spot, but terrible for someone learning. I am concerned as a local kiter who would be very upset if that place got shut down.

Over the course of last season I saw more and more beginners showing up to Lassing. The close proximity of power lines, houses, people, ect....make it only a matter of time before kiting gets banned there. I definitely saw a few kites in the palm trees and a couple around the power lines....not good.

I say we make it a point to let beginners know that they should drive another 20 minutes to be at east beach and in a much safer riding area. I hate to be the kite police but unless we do this that place will be shut down soon.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:05 PM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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I hear you guys loud and clear, and agree about riding safe (for other's safety more importantly than your own) out there.

Might I also mention (you guys probably already do it) -try to be friendly with passers-by and even make friends. That way, at least they know not all kiters are idiots (only a very select few are). I have found that is impossible to stop some people if they want to endanger others, trick out 10 feet of a little kid, etc. However, it's never impossible to make a good impression and influence someone's views regarding kiters as a whole. Most intelligent and reasonable people won't attribute the actions of one person to an entire group, especially after you approach them and are very nice/make a good impression. It seems like there is a common group of dog walkers, runners there nearly every night. Influencing them in a positive way can't hurt, in case something goes awry.

My guess at that park is that if something happened, an accident report would be filed by a cop, and it would progress against the individual who hurt a bystander (let's hope, anyway), not the whole group of us. Same as if someone's dog was off a leash and bit someone.

I still agree 100% with you guys (obviously)
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:10 AM
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KenBrackins KenBrackins is offline
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Default I got something to add about skyway

The other day (very light winds), a few die-hards including me, were trying to ride. A guy shows up with a big camera. One particular kiter was cutting everyone off, zipping in between kites, running people on shore etc. in order to mug for pics. So much that my buddy and I both came in and quit riding. You would think a guy who intructs would know better.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:30 PM
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Kiteboarding Tampa Bay Kiteboarding Tampa Bay is offline
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I would think a positive first step would be for us to define instructor qualifications and responsibilities for teaching around here. My main area of concern is East Beach, as I regularly see 3 or 4 inexperienced kiters trying to teach their friends within 50' of shore. That is one of the biggest problems out there right now, and the simplest to solve (to allow only licensed instruction).

The local instructors who are serious about teaching are already certified by IKO or PASA, and being that they can take either ITC right here in Fla., there's no excuses for not obtaining certification.

happy kiting
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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define instructor qualifications and responsibilities sounds good, especially the second part, which you mention but then fail to address.

IMO, obtaining a license doesn't guarantee minimal standards/responsibilities will be followed by those instructing with the license. I think this has been demonstrated for years across the State.
That was one of my primary concerns/requests going back several years now, was the apparent absence of minimal standards being upheld by some of the local instructors. When I stated (on this forum) it might be a good idea for local instructors to agree upon some minimum standards (primarily riding/teaching distance from shore) I was met with much hostility and told I was trying to "start something". In fact I was. I was trying to start a safe local trend.
I am sure you remember this exchange on this forum. For anyone reading this, no, Steve S. was not the one being hostile.

My goal with this simple request was to insure a minimum riding distance from shore along the beaches (100 feet) as well as a minimal teaching distance from shore/other kiters. I thought and still think this is very appropriate to expect minimal standards from instructors to be upheld. I think Steve S would agree to this. I can't help but think following minimal standards while teaching is one goal of certification.

I have seen/had exchanges with many instructors over the years regarding this topic. One such incident occurred at Lassing with an instructor teaching a guy in 25 knot winds, on a c kite, with no helmet, immediately upwind from a bunch of trees (maybe 60 feet from shore). He was holding on to his student by his harness, as his student was getting semi-lofted over and over, lifted them both up out the water. I told the guy to move further out, put a helmet on his student or stop teaching, as he was endangering his student. He shot a bird at me as rode away, and that is when the "fun" started. He told me he was licensed and could do whatever he wanted. I would say ten guys saw that one. It was beyond a joke to me how the instructor was risking this guy's life. One mess up and the guy was going to jam into the trees. I still can't believe some 'licensed' instructors are that stupid, and to me, proves a license doesn't in and of itself mean a thing. Obviously I refused to let the guy risk his student's life and the lesson ended.

Certification means someone was exposed to the "right" ways to do things, but being exposed to something hardly insures the practices are adopted. For some instructors, it means they cared enough to get licensed and take their instructing seriously. I understand that and would never claim that all instructors are bad. Obviously many, such as yourself, care.
For others though, it appears that once certified, they feel "above it all" and can do as they please. The irony. If I were an instructor, this would piss me off to no end.

I know you mean well Steve, it's obvious. However, I think that I am stating the obvious as well - that flashing an IKO or PASA card doesn't mean that an instructor follows any guidelines or is any good at what they do. So, I think declaring that this is the solution (only allowing certified instruction to occur) falls short. I am quite confident that I would instruct someone much better and in a safer manner than some certified instructors. Again, as I have stated in the past (especially since I would do it for free) don't expect me to ever not teach someone, if I desire. I taught Donna, and can't imagine feeling safe handing her over to some of the instructors I have seen. It simply wouldn't have happened.

If you really want to make an impact, maybe you could get all local instructors to agree to some basic standards of teaching along the beaches, at EB, etc. That is the second part of your opening statement (define responsibilities). Not teaching immediately upwind of people along the beaches and at Lassing would be a great start to defining responsibilities of local instructors, which has never been accomplished, although it has been attempted a couple times. I am not implying that a majority of instructors do teach immediately upwind of people. I am simply hoping that an agreed to statement will give non-instructors more leverage when approaching the "bad-apple" instructors. That has always been my goal and it blows me away how much resistance this simple idea has received in the past.
Thanks Steve S.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:58 AM
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Kiteboarding Tampa Bay Kiteboarding Tampa Bay is offline
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Great post Scott, and I was intentionally vague as I'd to see progress on this topic.(thanks for taking the bait) I believe that instructors agreeing to some basics isn't really a lot to ask, and would show they're willing to help properly manage our riding spots. In turn, I think it would help the locals respect the jobs of the instructors as well.
I completely agree that the certification doesn't automatically make a good instructor, but it does show initiative to learn about what you're teaching (and getting 100 bux an hour for!). My problem is not so much with an experienced VETERAN kiter teaching his GF, as it is someone hucking lessons and gear trying to make a living off of it. Also, when friends teach friends, that friend teaches other friends, and it’s a big clusterfudge of inexperienced kiters.
You have to draw the line somewhere.

Here's 5 simple things I think would help address the situation around here:
-require certification of some type (credibility)
-city occupational license (legality)
-publicly accessible feedback system (accountability)
-No beginner lessons over 20 knots (sensibility)
-No Gulf beach lessons (respectability)

General teaching areas (distance from beach) at any launch should be:
sideshore wind- 100 yards out minimum
side-on, or onshore wind- 200 yards out minimum

Of course there are plenty of exceptions to the above mentioned (I’d like to hear others thoughts on what would work) but having no general "rules" at all, means a continued free-for-all, and we already know where that leads us.

Anyway, I think the best way to handle things that affect all of us is through an association, where everyone interested can discuss and decide how things should be.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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That all sounds totally logical to me.
As you know, I made the post for a reason. A few instructors ride/teach in such a fashion as to reflect poorly on all kiters. To the point they jeopardize access. I never cared about people riding "unsafe" and getting hurt. I couldn't care less. It's the endangering of bystanders that was always my concern.

I mainly wrote my post as an exercise in writing while playing online. Don't get me wrong, I meant what I said, but the outcome doesn't matter to me much personally anymore. If we lost all our spots, it wouldn't affect my life too much. That doesn't mean I wish them lost, it just means I am emotionally detached from the outcome (and was more attached 2 years ago).

I appreciate your thought out response and hope (for rider's sakes) that some of the nonsense ends.

I never quite understood why it was considered an attack to request minimal standards be followed by local instructors.
Actually I do understand, 100%. That's just a line to get others to reason out why it was opposed.
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