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  #11  
Old 02-02-2010, 07:28 AM
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Todd RT Todd RT is offline
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Everyone here has very valid points. In my opinion, the 3 very best lightwind kites that I've riden are (in no specific order):
  • Cabrinha Switchblade 1
  • Cabrinha Switchblade III
  • Cabrinha Crossbow 16M IDS

I am 215-200lbs and ride in light winds when there are 19M Flysurfers in the the air. I haven't riden a flysurfer, so I can't compare. But riders on the 19m flysurfers are always surprised that on my Switchblade 1 and my flight deck, that I can keep riding in sub 10mph winds.

I sure wish Cabrinha STILL MADE SWICHBLADES IN 16M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you listening Pete????

The Crossbow 16M has the same low end that the SB1 has. Just more bar pressure.
The SB3 has more high end then low end. I need like 12mph to ride the SB3.
The SB2 VERY similar to the SB3. Don't count it out either.

I look forward to riding some foils so I can compare!!
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:59 AM
robertovillate robertovillate is offline
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Wow, ripping in 6 kts! Impressive. I would really like to see that. The big problem is still if it drops to 4 or 5 kts...then I'd be surprised if anything will work. ?

I was able to ride an RRD Hypertype 15m in almost as light of wind as a Silver Arrow 19...but not quite as low....and "not quite" translates "less performance" in light wind. I'm a lighter rider so that's a big advantage. But I would still love to see any LEI that can TRULY match the light wind performance of the Silver Arrow.

Course racing is perhaps a whole different matter and you may be looking for different characteristics in a kite.

Agree, the board is a HUGE factor. In either case, it's great to see such improvements in light wind kites by almost all kite brands, and with boards as well.
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Last edited by robertovillate; 02-02-2010 at 10:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:34 PM
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Steve-O Steve-O is offline
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Board is the big factor here.

As far as kite goes, do you want grunt in light wind or just on a plane.

Smaller kites and big boards can get u on plane, but big kites can provide that grunt you might be craving. How soon do you want to be able to load and pop? That is huge for me in light wind. Not really interested in mowing the yard.

The Flysurfers are amazing for raw power, would have to agree with Jay on that one but they are pricey as Roberto mentioned. I can ride a 19m in 10 with my 131 and be very powered.

One note about the Crossbow 16M ...I have been teaching a student that is 340lbs and that freakin kite with his bad board technique can get him on a plane in 15knots. The board is only 145X43cm. If he had a bigger board he would be money. Think about that.... 340lbs. I don't think any of the above kites mentioned except maybe a Fly 19 could pull that off. Even more amazing is I can hold that kite down in 20knots at 150lbs. I can't however hold down the Fly19 in anything over 14knots.

The crossbow and the Fly are just two completely different animals.

Good luck. Lots of great choices out there.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2010, 06:47 AM
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Thank you all for the good information. It will help me make a decision that I will feel good about when moving forward with replacing the Royal Era 14m. In my search for a low wind kite, my interest is not based on trying to ride in super low winds such as 8knts or even 10knts. Believe me, I would not even waste time heading to the beach if that’s all the wind that is projected. There are times that a forecast does not fill in and its those days that I would like my “Light wind kite” to be perform in the lightest wind possible for those conditions.

Considering that kite manufacturers are in the business of selling kites, the marketing information and “hype” can be misleading. I think the push for selling those damn SS Machines was a great money making boost for the company but the kites where not the best light wind products as advertised. I certainly do not want to make the same mistake of purchasing another one of those POS…

What about the RRD’s, Waroo’s and Ocean Rodeo’s? Are they just not in the race?
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2010, 07:05 AM
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Gary, ive heard a lot of good things about the 13.5 Kahoona... but have not rode one myself..

i believe Big Air Al has one and loves....

-Danny
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2010, 07:42 AM
sparkyman sparkyman is offline
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I had the 1st generation Cabrinha 16m Crossbow. It was a light wind machine. Rode from 8mph to 20 mph. If new XB is anything like the old one I would say at least give it a try. Ocean Rodeo 12m rise what I use now. I weigh 180lbs and ride that from 12 to mid 20's very happy with this kite. Nobody really carries OR on the east coast. But they are very common on the west coast. Ofcourse company is in Vancouver BC Canada free Tim Hortons doughnut with purchase. With the cost of kites these days you do want to choose carefully...Jordan
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2010, 08:43 AM
Whitey Whitey is offline
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Would like to point out a couple of important facts. You can no more put the different models of foils into a group and comment on their characteristics than you can put the Nomad, CB ten, and the Turbo Diesel 1 in a group and comment on their traits. (I pick those kites because I have personal experience on them)

The Flysurfer Speed is out in three very different models.

Speed 1 not in the ball game. Do not buy one you will be disappointed.

Speed 2 very powerful kite, very stable, will not collapse in 12 to 20 winds, at least in the several hundred hours I have on them it has not happened in those conditions. Depower on the 19m speed2 is there but once the wind gets to the mid teens high teens you are looking for a place to put it down. Super kite in 9 to 12 kts.

Speed 3 the latest version and completely different kite. Loads of depower. I know Steve O can ride this comfortably in much higher winds than the speed 2 he is referring to.

I own a larger quiver of Cabs and 4 of the flysurfers. I enjoy riding them all. Relaunch is very similar between the Cabs and the Speed2 and 3. Yes the foils float on top of the water for about 45 min before things change.

The CB and SB are very different kites from the speed2 and speed3. These two models of foils are very very high aspect kites that must be flown and ridden in a different manor than the Cabs. Much like two sail boats doing a down wind leg of a course race, one a mono hull with a large spinnaker that can point straight at the mark and the other like a high aspect catamaran that has to reach off a little to get things rolling.

I would love to see someone with the extreme course racing skills of Damo or Kent take the time to get comfortable with the proper techniques of riding one of these new foil kites, then go for a test run on their high tech course boards testing against each other then switching kites and doing it again. I'll provide the foils give me a call. I would love to give it a go with you guys until the first "tack gybe" on this board with 4 monster daggers sticking out of it. I have the kites down but this board is a new world for me.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:29 AM
kent kent is offline
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Whitey,

I'd love to give it a go on a foil to check it out. I do know that at the beginning of last year's world cup that a few guys tried to give it a go in the very light stuff, but it didn't work out. I'd suggest if they can be competitive that Damo might be able to make it work. As racing has fast become the largest competitive aspect in the sport world-wide, we are keeping our eyes open to tools that work. I believe that DR. Lightwind here in Miami has a new Speed, I'll see if i can take his out.

Damo and I are heading to Puerta Vallarta on the first of March for the start of the world cup in course racing. I'm sure that we will see the best stuff there. While i still personally think that LEI's may in fact like racing on old wooden booms when compared to products in the future, I'm still kind of hung up on the objective part. If you through 20K-30K to racers at world cup events, if RAM's worked, they would use them. Several WC events were run in winds that fell to less than 6-7 knots. I believe the Gebi can speak the the factual basis of this. Bruno won every race and there were RAM's on the water. If we thought that there was a silver bullet out there, we would take the tool and use it.

I don't think that the needs for course racing are much different, they just take the subjective nature of testing out. Which is better up wind? Which is better on a reach? Which is better down wind? These are things that we test all of the time and it's easy to do. This isn't like freestyle where riders prefer one kite over another based on feel alone, these things are measured in angles, numbers, turning speed, etc.

I will agree on the point that a good RAM should fly before any LEI. I think that the weight alone is a big factor here. On our new boards, if a kite can fly then you can use it to go up wind.

Back to the very first post. I don't know who is leading the way. Back when we had the Contra 14 I think Cabrinha was clearly the front runner when compared against the SS Machine and a few other kites that were marketed for the low end. Now, i know that Cab is a top player in low wind and that there are only 2-3 other kites on the market that are in the same arena. I guess it comes back to trying them for yourself. It sounds like there are plenty of RAMs in your area and I know that getting a ride on a Cab isn't too hard. I'd be interested in hearing the outcome.
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Unimog Bob Unimog Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent View Post
Jay,

Good points, but if you think being lit in 10 knots is still light, you really need to try some new light wind boards. Any decent LEI or RAM will do this. I guess that in the end, maybe there is no difference because the board is really the largest factor.
I agree with Kent on this. I think the board is more important than the kite in light winds. I also think his "money talks" approach to Foil vs. LEI is more than valid. If Foils were better, it seems they would win and riders would use them to make money winning. Sort of end of story (at least for racing purposes, maybe not free ride as Jay alluded to).

I am of the opinion that all kites are getting pretty darn good these days.
Seven years ago, some kites truly sucked, and others just sort of sucked.
There was a "suckiness differential" worth knowing about in deciding on which kites to purchase. Now, it seems most kites are pretty good. I personally am more apt to make a kite purchase decision based on customer service/warranty reputation these days when it comes to buying a kite. Anyway.... just my opinion.


Kent, what is one of the "best" light wind/race boards out there for your average joe (not looking to win a race) - but for "mowing the yard"/ sightseeing the girls on the beach in 7 to 11 knots?

I was just looking at Alex Aguera's new boards on YouTube. Seen some others as well. He claims he can easily go upwind in 7 knots on a 13m Xbow.
I met Alex several years ago in St. Pete (as you know, he's from St Pete) and liked him a lot, and trust his word.




Thanks for any inputs.

Last edited by Unimog Bob; 02-03-2010 at 10:55 AM.
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Whitey Whitey is offline
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Don't get me wrong here. I am not suggesting that the new foil kites are the answer for getting on the podium at a course race, not the case.

I just wanted to shine some light on the comments being made about RAMs as a group. Folks are referring to SA (silver arrow) here and the new kites are not silver arrows. That is a type of fabric that you had the option of having a Speed 2 made out of. The Kite that Jay rode was a Speed 3 deluxe. These are two completely different kites. That is what I was trying to point out.

As for the original post asking who's the leading light wind category? I don't think he was referring to course racing. The foils obviously have not won the course races, but for your average rider wanting to spend a Saturday cruising the beach, throwing a few jumps, riding some small waves, while not having to constantly worry about staying upwind, it is not fair to say "the speed is not in the ball game".

I did this for several summers on my Contra 17, and now I do it on the foils. The Contra worked great, I had a blast on it, I just hated to pump that monster up on a summer day.

Well technically, your statement is correct the speed is not in the ball game ("the speed" is what the speed 1 was referred to) But the speed 2 and speed 3 are in the ball game big time, given that the game is not course racing, but just having fun in the sun ridding on a very light wind day.

Kent, I value your opinion and respect your experience in the sport, and wanted to add some missing information to the thread.
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