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Old 06-14-2006, 08:13 AM
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bryanleighty bryanleighty is offline
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Default Inferno / Danny.. Re: your post on Best's Forum

Heya Danny.. regarding the post you put up on Best's forum regarding the high end of a 9m waroo...

Thing is that once you get up to the points that you are wanting to take it, you have to oversheet it to the point of near-inversion.

When I was out on the 9m on Sunday when the wind was in the 30mph range, I was absolutely able to ride comfortably and control the power, but I had to be very careful to not sheet out too mujch. if you are looking for a kite for those super insane 35+ days, a 7m probably would suit better. the 9m is more in lines to a 11m C kite.

Even yesterday in the upper 20's the 9m at times was perfect but when it would just to near 30 I would have to sheet out more than I would like. I had one inversion scare due to putting WAY too much slack on the back lines.

you learn quickly that you need to be conscious of the tension on the lines..

pushing the extreme upper limits on the bow kites is where the problems are occuring ...
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:01 AM
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Yeah I've noticed that too. Seems like the bow kites aren't necessarily giving a higher top end (or not by much anyway), but letting you handle the gusts better... unless of course it inverts and then it's instant terror!

Seems the big advantage is a better low end and therefore a wider range.

Can you set up the lines so that the kite can't be dewpowered enough to invert?
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:14 AM
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You mean sheet out not oversheet

oversheet is when you pull in too much , a kite cannot invert unless U completely slack the back lines by ( under ) sheeting (out )
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:37 AM
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can anybody tell me the low end on a 7m bow, and by low end i mean able to jump, not just hold my ground?
im afraid if i get a 7m that i might have to much of a gap between it and my 14m (which i can fly in up to 22-23 Knots)

does anybody have one i could demo the next time we get 20knots?

thanx to all
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:45 AM
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thanks bigR! i edited the post!!!

Tom.. you are mostly correct.
I think people buy into the hype that a bow kite (waroo, ion, answer, switchblade, etc..etc..etc..) is going to change your life. it will NOT brighten teeth, cure cancer or do your laundry. I will not lower gas prices or get that hot chick in accounting to give you her phone number (maybe).. but it DOES provide a much larger range in both the upper and lower end.

The lower end performance is unreal. I have been able to hold upwind with ease on a large flat ply board with a 12 bow while others where flying 17m kites.

The highend performace allows you to kite in conditions in the upper range and not feel like you are fighting to maintain control. I have flown many-a-C-kite in gusty conditions and tho I had a whale of a time, flying a bow kite has allowed me to have triple the fun and take the gusts considerably better.

There is still a range with each kite. This is where the mix up is. I read tons of posts on Kiteforum and other places where claims are made on whats is capable on a particular kite and others trying to reproduce riding in those conditions get worked, inverted and then jump online and start bad mouthing the kites because or their mistakes.

There is definitely a larger upper range and the edges of that range are still a bit blurry to me with only a handful of sessions in these conditions...

A bow kite quiver will allow you to have fewer kites and have some overlap so that if conditions change you can stay on the water longer.

still a kite, still the same dangers that all kites bring and still require that you kite safe and smart...

Also.. if you shorten the depower loop, it cannot be sheeted out as much.. this MAY help to prevent any sort of inversion... you lose the ability to dump all power from the kite tho..

Yesterday on my 9m when it was super gusty, i actually powered up the loop to keep as much backline pressure as possible so that I didnt over sheet. also as an Oversheet on the bow dumps power (they fly best sheeted out a bit) it was ideal. if i cranked in, i would oversheet and power would spill off the kite. it would pull me more downwind, but this was not an issue.. wind let up a bit, sheet out, turn upwind and take off!!...
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:30 AM
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Interesting discussion.

I agree BOW isn't a magic word.
I've recently had the opp. to ride several of the bows, and I have noticed alot of variation in the upper/lower ranges on different model bows as well as grunt/ease of depower differences, etc.
It's actually quite amazing the variation in performance characteristics between the kites.

A turbo diesel, a waroo and an Ion are three different animals.
All are great kites, but with different pros and cons. Just like with the C-kites.
Anyway, a discussion grouping all bows v. all C's might not be possible.

All I know for sure is this: In 3 weeks I will have 2 Ions (technically not a bow.. ugh.. what are they?)
I am anticipitating being much happier with these 2 kites than with my current 4 C kite get up. They seem to fit my riding style the best of all of them. After having said that, I would trade my RRD and Fuels for almost any brand of bow. Daryl and Pat and most of the experienced riders here are still on C-kites.
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyway Scott
They seem to fit my riding style
this, of course, is all that matters and is the deciding factor for everyone...

hows the east coast scott??
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:31 AM
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Until the storm I was riding every night til the sunset. I had a great session at Matanzas inlet with an outgoing (opposing) current on Suday. The same is 'sposed to happen Friday with 15+ winds outta the East and Donna will be here. We should have an epic day. The jumps with an opposing current are unreal. The level of the riders here is pretty high, so I had to pull out my best trick (30 knots to zero in a heartbeat upon running aground, followed by a kiteloop to faceplant to.. #$it.. did I just break my arm?)

Shannon has been hanging out in the shop alot. He's a cool guy for sure.
We even talked a bit about the hellfish. I know this, if someone told me last summer I would be selling Best Waroos and talking to Shannon Best on a couch, I would have bet them 15 grand they were wrong. I am play it by ear, when opportunity knocks type.. so BAM poker is over and I am in a kite shop.

I talked with Jim's brother Andy this morning.
Chili is okay, but required fairly intense surgery to his arm.
He is looking at at least 4 months. I am going to call him today at the hospital he is in. Sounds to me like the accident was zero his fault and a freak deal.
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Yesterday on my 9m when it was super gusty, i actually powered up the loop to keep as much backline pressure as possible so that I didnt over sheet. also as an Oversheet on the bow dumps power


OVERSheet on the bow DOES NOT dump power, it generates MORE power.

I think you have the definition wrong.

Over sheet is when you power up the kite by bringing the bar closer, pulling in

Sheeting out is when you push the bar away

Opposite

Bow kites jump by oversheeting the kite, creating an even greater ANGLE of ATTACK which generates immediate power ( it also stalls the kite when oversheeted too much )
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno
can anybody tell me the low end on a 7m bow, and by low end i mean able to jump, not just hold my ground?
im afraid if i get a 7m that i might have to much of a gap between it and my 14m (which i can fly in up to 22-23 Knots)

does anybody have one i could demo the next time we get 20knots?

thanx to all
anybody?
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