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  #11  
Old 02-27-2007, 11:15 AM
JustinZ JustinZ is offline
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Question from this discussion.

I have a cabrinha bow kite and there are only two places to attach a leash to. Either right above the chicken loop, or on the little red ball with a small ring in it that is only attached to one of the inside lines. Obviously it is safer to attach it to the one inside line so in an emergency you can completely kill the kite even if another line breaks or the bridle gets tangled.

Most guys I see out kiteboarding with bow kites attach the leash above the chicken loop so I just followed suit. It makes it easier after a kiteloop to be able to spin the bar to untangle it instead of having to loop it the other way. It seems to me that the only purpose to have the leash attached to the chicken loop at all is for people doing unhooked moves that dont want to lose the kite if they crash. If it is just to be able to unspin the bar freely then what is the point of the leash at all.

My question is: Is there a way to have both? Being able to have your leashed attach to just one inside line (so you can dump all of the kites power by releasing your chicken loop QR) and also have the flexibility to unspin the bar after a kiteloop without the leash getting in the way?

-Justin
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:50 PM
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Yes, 5th line through the bar.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:52 PM
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Grabbing the C loop only works if the kite depowers when you let go of the bar.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2007, 06:41 AM
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ricki ricki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinZ View Post
Question from this discussion.

I have a cabrinha bow kite and there are only two places to attach a leash to. Either right above the chicken loop, or on the little red ball with a small ring in it that is only attached to one of the inside lines. Obviously it is safer to attach it to the one inside line so in an emergency you can completely kill the kite even if another line breaks or the bridle gets tangled.

Most guys I see out kiteboarding with bow kites attach the leash above the chicken loop so I just followed suit. It makes it easier after a kiteloop to be able to spin the bar to untangle it instead of having to loop it the other way. It seems to me that the only purpose to have the leash attached to the chicken loop at all is for people doing unhooked moves that dont want to lose the kite if they crash. If it is just to be able to unspin the bar freely then what is the point of the leash at all.

My question is: Is there a way to have both? Being able to have your leashed attach to just one inside line (so you can dump all of the kites power by releasing your chicken loop QR) and also have the flexibility to unspin the bar after a kiteloop without the leash getting in the way?

-Justin
Justin,

I would put your question directly to the guys at Cabrinha. I have heard that attaching your leash to the reride ball up on the trim strap should be avoided UNLESS you want to solo land. This is a major departure from C kite practice. I was told that you should move your leash attachment to that point from chicken loop attachment for solo landing. Easier said than done with my shorter arms however. Have folks tried this routinely?
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:38 PM
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I just heard about another serious flat kite accident with an Instinct. It involved an intermediate kiter out in overpowered conditions with a 12 m kite. Other kiters were reportedly heavily powered on 9 m flat kites. The rider had come into shore, had fully pulled in his trim strap. The kite response to control inputs was reduced by this. The kiter sheeted out, stalling the kite following which he sheeted in. This action initiated a kite loop, pulling the helmeted kiter onshore with some force. He suffered some unspecified minor injury from this.

Kites may reduce response when the trim strap is fully pulled in although not unduly so, unless in marginal winds in my experience. If the response is too mushy, it may mean additional kite tuning is indicated along with line checking to verify that they are still of equal length. Kite lines will stretch out of uniform length as a matter of course, hence checking is always required. It is unknown what the exact cause was in this case. I understand without the helmet his injuries might have been more severe. Be sure to rig the size kite suited for the bottom to middle of actual winds. Avoid flying a kite at the upper limits of its wind range. Can you do it, sure you can but it is more work, less fun and your factor of safety if something goes wrong can be much less.

- So, don't rig too big,
- keep control particularly nearshore,
- test your kite in controlled circumstances in various trims,
- and wear a lid, like this guy did.
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2007, 06:20 AM
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Let me see if I can summarize a general approach at this point for flat kites:

1. Carefully preflight, including making sure pulleys move easily and lines aren't worn, your leading edge, batten pressures are adequate, check proper attachment, run down the lines looking for twists, tangles, knots, wear/cuts, etc.. **

2. Make sure your helper/launcher knows what to do, signals for doing it and what to look for.

3. The pilot attaches his leash to the appropriate spot for his kite system for nearshore conditions. (read the manufacturers directions, try it out in lighter conditions, think carefully about how you are going to do this)

4. Both guys get in position, the helper picks the kite up and holds it. (I use one arm curved over my head in a "C shape" to signal this). Kite closest to the water is advisable in most but perhaps not all launch areas.

5. The pilot checks system, down the lines, makes sure the leading edge lines form a nice Vee, the trailing edge lines stay on the outside, bridles seem to be right and the kite has a proper shape.

6. The helper/launcher checks system, looks at all the bridles, makes sure the leading edge lines converge in a vee at the pilot, back lines stay outside, kite is shaped properly and feels like it "wants" to take off. If not, why not?

7. Pilot gives thumbs up, helper replies with thumbs up if appropriate other wise shakes head no or holds up a fist. The pilot can use these same signals, don't rely upon verbal communication. If the helper doesn't like the feel of things he can pop the kite over on the leading edge to deal with it. Nothing says he has to launch.

8. Helper starts to let kite go making sure it wants to fly and is ready to grab it if not. He DOESN'T throw it, drop it or watch it roll down the beach. He stays ready to help, waits to see that the kite is flying and pilot is moving on.

9. Pilot is ready/practiced to abort, sheet out totally, DON"T hold bar in too long. Spinning lines can disable depowering at times. Be ready and practiced to release your leash attachment to your body if necessary. Go over this stuff in advance to try to avoid FREEZING.

10. If your kite goes down, worse rolls, expect possible tangles and disabling of depowering. Be ready to react early.


This is detailed, then again many (most) accidents are caused lack of attention to detail. Use your head and have fun or risk using your melon for a doorstop and spend time in the ER and/or kite repair.

Most of this should be second nature to most kiters and experienced helpers. This isn't exhaustive, nor specific to all kite systems.


What have I left out that should be in a general checklist?


** More about flat or hybrid kite Preventive Maintenance (working to make stuff work better, longer) in the next SBC Kiteboard Magazine by the way.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2007, 11:23 PM
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I just heard from another person that was in this accident. He was one of the other kiters that was hit by the rider as he was dragged along the beach. He made some good points.

Things like:

- Considering use of a leash attachment weak link

- Carrying and using knives when needed without delay (AND gloves)

- And one of my own, when lines are uneven in a traction kite, it will do the Corkscrew of Death.

The kite will usually relaunch repeatedly with slight pauses until something breaks or is released with the Corkscrew of Death. So, always EXPECT the kite to continue to power up after lulls if a bridle snags or breaks. More about this HERE


More details below.

He was rammed from behind by the rider as he was being dragged with quite a bit of force. Once he got back to his feet he had pulled out a knife to cut the lines of the kite. He carries a titanium dive knife having given up on rusting out hook knives. He had his hand over the kite lines and was ready to cut when guys yelled don't cut! He hesitated and then the kite powered up again, cutting this guys finger (the third finger injury in this accident) as the rider powered. It is true that at least two lines from one side of the kite, better more would have to be cut. Still, I was told that if the rider had been seriously injured, he never would have forgiven himself.

It was a new pressure treated 4" x 4" timber embedded in the ground that was broken by the riders shoulder. I was told that main reason it broken instead of the riders shoulder was that there was a knot in the timber at the sand line. The rider hit the timber low increasing the amount of force necessary to break it. Without the knot the rider could have been severely injured and a few inches over possibly killed. I don't think any of these guys wear helmets at this point.

The most important point he made was about the quick release attachment. He feels that it should be secured with a weak link that will set the kite free if there is a depower failure and the bar is dropped. I used to have a problem with C kite leash attachments that would pull free if the kite was released under fairly light winds. This was supported by the apparent infrequency of total depower failures with C kites. The risk ideally should stay with the kiter and not folks downwind. With flat kites I am not as sure at this point. There seem to be a variety of ways of disabling depowering leaving setting the kite free as the primary option. I am aware of cases where depowering was disabled while on the water and the riders had time and past practice to find and open the leash attachment. People don't practice like they should and on land you may not be able to reach or find the leash attachment in time. Perhaps manufacturers should think over a yielding leash attachment. Of course this creates potential issues with folks downwind.

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  #18  
Old 03-14-2007, 09:44 PM
litewavedave litewavedave is offline
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Having a bow, SLE, SSLE, or Hybrid with a minimal bridle really lessens the liklihood of this happening. A bridle that hands 2' below the kite is much less likely to wrap (impossible) than one that hangs 5-6' below the kite.

I was just in PR, and the best wave rider on the island, Charlie, wouldn't ride a hybrid, SLE, etc because of the bridle-wrap problem which is more likely when riding waves and getting your kite washed.

When he rode my kite, he bought two. The SSLE style (GK-Trix) has a very minimal bridle that still affords 100% depower.

-LWD
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:40 PM
The Kite House The Kite House is offline
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i have been reading this and have to coment....ok, non bow kites, sle are basicly a c kite with a bridle, no swept trailing edge or contour, so yes they will get wraped and caught if you dont "pre flight check".....again pre flight check...not rush out...the stronger the wind the better the look you should take.....next waves in hard condtions wrap up kites, was just riding before waves way over head, crashed so did others, option one un hook if you are in big shit or have slack....number 2, after you crash, " try"to keep tension on the bar, the kite will stay taught because of the briddle....if you are being washed, un hook and get out.....all this is advanced stuff....you ride hard , you better know how to crash....c kite/ sle kite/bow /2 line what ever....Dave i saw one of you kites wrap hard in west palm in the waves....same as i have seen cabs slingshots..ect ....dont try to sell gear with people thinking your stuff will make them safer,..they need to think......people ride in condtions way over the head now, because the kites have a huge ranges, so know what to do before you go....Charlie has more to worrie about at shacks than the kite, that reef will kill you, he is good, but a good kite wont save a rider.....a smart rider will plan before the assault...

sorry for the rant, but i hate excuses, we all screw up.....just think about what you will atempt before you do it!

Aloha Paul
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  #20  
Old 03-14-2007, 11:36 PM
firstcoastkite firstcoastkite is offline
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I have been watching this one as well, and it is an interesting topic. As an instructor, it is important to let students know that even though the new kite designs are safer, it doesn't mean that accidents won't happen. And, I agree with Paul, that you still have to be careful and aware, especially in hardcore conditions. It is always a great idea to practice self-rescue, and know your equipment. Also, practice your releases, whatever kite you use, and be able to execute your personal exit strategy at a moment's notice.

I have been flying the Ozone Instinct for almost a year now, which is a 5-line hybrid with no bridle. The kite does have a span line that goes between the wing tips, and I have had either the span line or a flying line get caught around the wingtip before, similar to what happened with this bridle. Luckily, I was in light winds, so no problem, but I can see where it could cause the kite to spin in windier conditions.

I read below where another rider had a problem with an Instinct. I have noticed that when the kite is completely depowered it does take alot of bar input to steer the kite. I agree that the kite should be used within it's wind range. While flat kites do depower more than traditional C-shape kites when sheeted out, if you come unhooked or the kite suddenly goes full power, they have substantially more power. It is also a good idea to hold the bar near the middle when on land to avoid sudden movements with the kite. If you are within the wind range of a particular kite, pulling the adjustment strap only halfway should be enough to sufficiently depower the kite and still give you plenty of kite control to steer. If you have to pull your depower strap all the way in, you are probably flying too big a kite for the conditions.

Oh, and by the way, Charlie is a great wave rider at Shacks in PR. But he is still the flying chicken, "Pollito", and I don't know if I would ask him for safety advice! He does have the record for most grabs and funky dance moves in a single jump though.
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