ATTENTION KITESURFERS-Warning from Pinellas County Surfers

There are definitely more surfers, it's a pretty obvious no brainer.
Just looking at how many surf shops and how much business they get will tell you that. They may not ride every day, but it's not even close. They have a big voice.

Skills testing etc. is a waste of time in terms of this particular problem.
Let's get real. Do you think this is being done by noobs that couldn't pass a skills test? I am totally at a loss as to how kiting skills relate to common sense and courtesy anyway? There is no connection.
I don't make these comments as an attack on you Toby, but they are made as opinions directly against yours.
It doesn't matter in the end, this is useless forum chatter, truly useless.

Yesterday was only one day and focussing on who it was seems silly.
I have seen plenty of days where 20 guys (all at once or at different times in smaller groups) screamed down the coastline for 15 miles, the whole way coming close to shore doing tricks very close (you were there on one day Toby to see). As a community, complaining on the forum but just watching the days it happens is like talking about a fire that burnt down your neighbor's house the day before while you sat and watched it that day.
The big difference here is that your neighbor didn't care at the time and the whole neighborhood didn't care either, as they were roasting twinkies on the house's flames. That's how it feels around here for the last 8 months or so, and the major reason I and many others totally gave up on trying to stop it.

Majority rules and the majority has been saying for quite some time (not just yesterday)--- "Burn baby burn. Let's just burn this house down".
I personally can't relate to knowingly burning down your house (of riding), but it's impossible to stop it when so many seem dedicated to the cause.

This was a just another useless forum rant. Useless meetings, useless everything.
This stuff comes from within. People either have respect for the community (of kiters and larger community) or they don't.
We have plenty of riders who have none. That can't be overcome. Sorry to be such a downer, but it's a fact.

[BigR]

Scott wrote

There are definitely more surfers, it's a pretty obvious no brainer.
Just looking at how many surf shops and how much business they get will tell you that. They may not ride every day, but it's not even close.

Skills testing etc. is a waste of time in terms of this particular problem.
Let's get real. Do you this is being done by noobs that couldn't pass a skills test? I am totally lost as to how kiting skills relate to common sense and courtesy anyway? There is no connection.
I don't make these comments as an attack on you Toby, but they are made as opinions directly against yours. The only system that would ever work is for everyone to put a HUGE number on all their kites so that other people, including cops, could note which riders were continually doing the same actions. It's pretty much always the same people. Good luck with that one. I don't want to waste a perfectly good kite with a stupid number stencil, although I would.
It doesn't matter in the end, this is useless forum chatter, truly useless.

Yesterday was only one day. I have seen plenty of days where 20 guys (all at once or at different times in smaller groups) screamed down the coastline for 15 miles, the whole way coming close to shore doing tricks very close (you were there and one day Toby). As a community, complaining on the forum but just watching the days it happens is like talking about a fire that burnt down your neighbor's house the day before while you sat and watched.
The big difference here is that your neighbor didn't care at the time and the whole neighborhood didn't care either, as they were roasting twinkies on the house's flames. That's how it feels around here and the major frustration (and why I gave up totally) on trying to stop it.

Majority rules, and the majority has been saying for quite some time (not just yesterday)--- "Burn baby burn. Let's just burn this house down".
I personally can't relate to knowing burning down your house (of riding), but it's impossible to stop it when so many seemed dedicated to the cause.

This was a useless forum rant.

Totally agree

skills testing
signs
tags
talking
forums

none of these will work apparently. nothing will change the people that refuse to listen to common sense

like the song says "Second chances they don't never matter, people never change"

[ricki]

Why are there still skateboard parks, hang gliding parks, surfing zones on public beaches, snowboarding, designated hobie cat & sailing corridors on public beaches, sky diving LZ's, american football ... this could go on for a long time.

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist? Largely because people didn't blow off keeping them around as being hopeless due to the dumber, self-destructive side of human nature. If people get together for effect, this can be done and has been done many times before. Saying it's hopeless absolves responsibility or the need to try.

Many of the problem kiters (often well experienced guys too) seem to be driven by ego, appearances. Hit them where it hurts to work for reasonable change. Or, blow it off ... your choice.

[toby wilson]

Exactly Rick. Proactive behavior is always better than reactive behavior when dealing with problems like these. But I seem to be outnumbered here, not only by the surfers but also by others who don't want to work toward getting the area regulated.

Scott, the regulation is easy. Wear the tags yourself and lead by example as one of the guys who is more experienced without protest. If you see someone on the beach without a tag, point out the sign that explains the rules and regulations of our launch as well as the tagging and skills testing. Let the instructors posess and hand out the tags and do the testing for newbs and out of towners. Problem solved. If someone refuses to wear a tag or do a skills test, a group of local more experienced riders approach them and insist that they put their kite down. Heck, you could even include Jim Wilson in this for Ft. DeSoto if you wanted, I am sure he would be all for safer kiting practices at Ft. DeSoto as he has seen some accidents there with some experienced guys getting hurt...

Or if any of you think you have a better approach to regulate, present it but staying passive is just like holding a ticking time bomb. Eventually it will explode and if you don't get rid of it, you'll go up in smoke with it.

Stop bitching about others if you aren't willing to change yourself...

Originally Posted by RickI

Why are there still skateboard parks, hang gliding parks, surfing zones on public beaches, snowboarding, designated hobie cat & sailing corridors on public beaches, sky diving LZ's, american football ... this could go on for a long time.

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist? Largely because people didn't blow off keeping them around as being hopeless due to the dumber, self-destructive side of human nature. If people get together for effect, this can be done and has been done many times before. Saying it's hopeless absolves responsibility or the need to try.

Many of the problem kiters (often well experienced guys too) seem to be driven by ego, appearances. Hit them where it hurts to work for reasonable change. Or, blow it off ... your choice.

Originally Posted by RickI

Why are there still skateboard parks

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist?

Huh??? Who wants to skate in the same stupid park every day.

We LOST OUR FAVORITE SKATING SPOTS.

The parks are all we have left.

How is that a proactive win? It was a reactive "damn we can't skate anywhere anymore".

And WTF Toby, last I checked you were one of the people riding in the swim area at PAG right after the "Stay out of the swim zone" thread along with a dozen other guys.

So what exactly are you doing to help if you can't even stay out of the swim area? Oh a tag would have made a difference right.

I do my part. I try to stay outside the swim area and stay the F@#$ away from the surfers.

Every surfer on the gulf coast is looking at that website now thinking kite surfers are total kooks.

They are totally 100% right.

[BigR]

Or if any of you think you have a better approach to regulate, present it but staying passive is just like holding a ticking time bomb

I like Kent's idea of using the STICK rather than the nice CARROT approach we've been using





Does anybody realy believe that us kitesurfers are unaware of the common sense rules of kitesurfing?
There are people that just refuse to follow them, that's where our efforts should be, IMO

[Alex]

I think a big reason for no action with this sign and these tags and stuff is the fact that the percentage of kiters using and reading this forum regularly is about 7%, in the end its going to take some beach promotion when we are all out there riding. Does anyone remember the tbksa, where it was about 35 of us and we were being reactive after olga's kite went into the skyway(from gear failure). forum talk is forum talk and it should be taken seriously but it isnt. we need to have face to face conversations. Do you guys know how many people showed up to the pre race party at WSW? A sh!t load. If we can get them to hold something like that again in reference to the recent ban talk, then we could get some stuff done hands on. promote the "kite night" on the beaches and advocate all riders to try to attend, because you arent going to be attending for "us" but rather for "you" because a beach ban is everyones problem. I'm sure there are a bunch of people with good ideas as well as people who would be able to put them into action. blabbing around on the forum, will just make this case go around in circles.

[Alex]

and seriously the ridiculous forum callouts need to end. everyone has at once done something "wrong". ive done my fair share, but calling out toby, when he is trying to help, for one thing he did wrong a couple of months ago is absurd. plus that kind of negativity is going to steer alot of people away from trying to help.

[Steve-O]

I have to concur with Scott's stance.

I have connections with the boys at Gulfster....so I will do a little work trying to figure out what was seen. Again, it seemed to be a perception from the beach.

As a surfer of 20+ years, surfers are just as dangerous to other surfers IMO. A hard surfboard to the head could do equal damage. I have been in crowded lineups all over the world, and it is dangerous.

Surfers have just learned to live with this and deal with it on the water with there own. However kitesurfing becoming as popular as it is maybe gives them the feeling that they have some power to shut us down. They are already frustrated with the crowds in surfing, now they have to deal with kiteboarders too. Yes we have way more options than they do. It makes them angry. Imagine being at a skatepark and some guys come through with dirt bikes. It would piss some people off.

I feel there pain, but I don't think they are going to have a leg to stand on if something did happen, because so many injuries and deaths have happened in the surfing world and the sport still lives on as one of the biggest in the world.

Shit, I almost got ran over with by a snowboarder going 50+ and if he did hit me, it would have been a trip to the ER. But do you think they would shut down snowboarding.......nope.

I personally feel our biggest concern is that innocent smimmer or beach goer. Surfers enter the water knowing the risks involved. Swimmers are a much different story IMO.

Final thought....go to the North Shore of Hawaii. Someone dies surfing there every year and many get mangled. Lifeguard rescues are a daily occurance. Do they shut down the sport because of the risks. Nope. If it put innocent people on the beach at risk, well that would be a different story.

The world is not getting any smaller.