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  #21  
Old 02-03-2008, 12:06 PM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Repeating,
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickI View Post
... I am not recommending anything. I am telling people about something novel that I saw. If they want to try it I am advising substantial cautions and to tell us how things went...
Riders choice on landing using the leash. I can recall one case of a guy in Palm Beach trying to do a "spin the kite" landing with a flat kite a couple of years back. He may have tangled a wing tip, the kite powered up spinning downwind and smashed him into that nasty 10 ft. high retaining wall, up, over A1A and on to the hood of a rental car on the far side and up into a tree. The word I got from that was to disconnect your kite leash before doing that type of landing. This doesn't happen all that often but as I said, riders choice.


The retaining/seawall in a nearby area

Solo landing with flat kites can be tricky. Used to be easy with traditional C kites but in getting something you often have to give something up.
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Last edited by RickI; 02-03-2008 at 11:01 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2008, 04:00 PM
jon modica jon modica is offline
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hmmm...
im not sure im getting across my point of safety very well.

I will be back in Florida in a few weeks and i will put together something in more detail.

THE ONLY THING I RECOMMEND
is that you teach yourself a method that works for you in a bad situation

This method works extremely well for me

at the end of the day, for me, i dont like having any kind of releasing gizmo's and gadgets. no 5th lines, no leashes, no releases, just pure knowledge of how to control my kite safely in up to 30+ knots.

I LIKE KNOWING THAT I CAN PULL ON MY CENTERLINES and knowing that my kite WILL NOT DO anything unexpected.

-Jon
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2008, 05:27 PM
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linhster linhster is offline
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I am not sure why the debate is as vigorous as it is on this topic.

What I got out of this is a new approach to self landing a kite. I know for me that self landing has always been a difficult thing. There has not been to many different way to do this. So when an experienced kiter offer a reasonable method to do a self landing, I try to learn from the experience.

As Rick mentioned that this is a technique that is demo on SBIII, it might or might not work with other brands. With this in mind, I will take extreme caution in attempting this with Cabrinha SB or any other brand.

The video did demonstrate a method that seem to be a lot easier and safer than some of the technique I have been using. So, I am glad that it was shared with many (including myself). I have not have the opportunity to exercise this method. I hope there will have that chance soon. Once I have a chance to try it and see the effectiveness of the method, and if it apply to my kite, then I will use it.

I think the safety message did come across. Any skill that teaches me about the behavior of a kite is a good one. Even watching someone NOT doing something right will teach me what NOT to do.

Thanks for the video. It was very informative.
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Galego Galego is offline
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because i am new to kiting im very interested in seeing and learning safe and alternative methods of self launching and self landings. thanks for the video.
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:22 PM
jon modica jon modica is offline
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GLAD IT HELPED!

hopefully me and Rick can team up again and do more!

thanks
-Jon Modica
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  #26  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:47 PM
Tom Stock
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If you do another video, I'd like to see it done in solid 25-30mph if it can really be done safely. Standing there hooked in with the bar tangled on the ground and one line wrapped around my hands hands is ok in 15 but above that it's sketchy.

Keep in mind I am speaking from experience here because I've used this method for close to a year now, so it's not new to me.

BUT, having said all that I am certainly not dismissing the method. I agree it is best to know how you land your kite via many different methods... suppose your leash broke or you just forgot it...

So I'll practice this method a bit more with some other (bow) kites and see how they react. There is always the possibility that my technique was not as good as it could have been.

Not challenging Jon or anything... he is absolutely correct that we should refine our kite control and practice different methods of self sufficiency!
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  #27  
Old 02-04-2008, 01:35 PM
RM3001 RM3001 is offline
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Default Tried it.

Tried Jon's technique with my Cabrinha Omega in light winds. It worked really well but not sure about trying it in heavy winds just b/c if something did go wrong it seems like you would have less control than leash/single front-line combo. It was kinda nice having my lines not get all messed up though.

Since starting kiting last May, I've tried to read everything I can and every little bit of information helps. I'm still surprised though by the lack of consensus on self launching/self landing. These are probably the 2 most important aspects of kiting safety to have down solid yet the methods are still widely disputed and surprisingly often not taught in lessons.

Much more needs to be done in this area in order to make this sport safer for everyone. The old adage of "Always have someone launch/land you" is just not realistic. Stuff happens and for a variety of reasons you are forced to launch/land yourself and hopefully through discussions like this we can work towards making some forward progress.
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2008, 02:20 PM
windjunkie windjunkie is offline
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Hello Jon,

I think it was really beneficial to those Cabrinha riders out there to see an alternative self landing method on video as you made it very clear what needed to be done. Do you have a method similar to this one (solo landing), which you would use if you were out in open water, your kite was down on the water and you needed to get to your kite? What safe steps would you take?

On another note I think you mention in your video or in your forum post, that you use this solo landing method up to 25knots. What method would you use if you were in winds above 25knots and you had to land the kite safely?

Thanks in advance.
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2008, 03:44 PM
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RickI RickI is offline
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Anymore input on this out there?
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  #30  
Old 02-10-2008, 03:27 PM
JustinZ JustinZ is offline
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I just tried Jon's method of self landing for the first time today. I was using a 13 meter Bullaroo and the wind was blowing 20-25 mph during my attempt at about 2pm. I probably should have been on my 10 meter SB2 given the wind strength but I had started a downwinder on Miami Beach from 65th street at 10:00 and the wind was only blowing about 13 mph at the time.

Anyway, I had just gotten back to behind my apt building on 50th street and then decided to come in and land. I tried Jon's method and I grabbed the center two lines and pulled. The kite immediately depowered like it did in the video and came crashing down (not too hard) on its leading edge. Probelm was everytime the kite hit the ground it just relaunched again. I even tried pulling in on the top middle line (good thing I was wearing gloves) to try and position it on the beach right so it would stay but the kite kept relalunching , sometimes right in the power zone pulling me hard down the beach. I ended up landing it the way I always do and I do this a lot cause I usually ride alone.

Self Landing Method I use - I bring my kite down to the edge of the window on to the beach (facing the water always) - I let go of the bar completely - kite sits at the edge of the window and bounces around a bit but stays in the same general place. I detach my leash from OS handle or chicken loop (depending on where I had it during session). Then I unhook my chicken loop from the spreader bar and attach it to this fixed rope that serves as a barrier on the beach. (I use this rope caus its there but a lot of people use sand bags with a rope and hook or a 5 gallon paint bucket filled with sand, etc. you can be creative there). Once its securely attahced to the weighted object or post, I run down to the kite holding on to the top middle line. Get to the kite turn it over and your done. I also usually launch the exact same way but in reverse.

Anyway, thought I would share the method I use since it works well for me and people seem to be uninformed in self launching and landing. I would much rather use Jon's method and I am looking forward to trying it out with my SB2 tomorrow maybe. But as for the Bullaroo 13m I had a hard time getting the kite to sit properly and it just kept relaunching.

Good Luck out there.
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