anyone see..

[Steve-O]

I assure you that I am not trying to single out anyone or trying to make anyone look bad. I am just asking the question and discussing philosophy. Severe accidents should open up some healthy conversation regarding riding practice.

I think Scott's philosophy is the best. No matter where you are riding, ride way upwind to give you time to react when shit hits the fan especially if the conditions are more onshore than sideshore. That seems to be the exception and not the norm. This single riding practice can decrease anyone's risk at any spot. It's really a no brainer.

Point also well taken that having good role models and setting a good example will help influence others habits. All in all, we have a very good crew of riders and role models in the Tampa Bay area. I think that is due to alot of great instructors that teach here and call here home. Team riders for WSW are Craig Whiteleather, Gabe Rodriguez, Chad Siple, Brian May, and Mike Hall. I think these guys all set good examples out there, but if there is something I am missing, please let me know and I will address it. Some of our more active instructors are Doug Whidman, Mike Hall, Chase, Sammy, Matt and myself. Again, point very well taken regarding roll models, so please send me a PM if I am missing something here.

I had to speak with a past student of mine today about riding close to shore and taking risks. The first talk didn't work. I addressed him again, and I finally got through. I don't ride Sunset much, but I must say the local crew up there is the safest and most respectful group I have had the priveledge of riding with. It is unfortunate that Sunset will be a mess when Howard Park closes and the windsurfers will take over. Tough times ahead for sure.

Every spot has its hazards, and we are blessed with some beginner friendly locations. I think it should be stated again, that weather knowledge and weather discussion should be an ongoing discussion on and off the beach. Veteran riders educating the newer ones. I can personally say I have learned a ton about the weather patterns and hazards from veterans like Scott just by reading this very forum. I urge any rider to use the forum for that purpose.

Finally, I assure you our philosophy at WSW is sport preservation before profit. We would never sell a kite to a local before instruction. A minimum of 3 hour safety and 2 hour on water lesson would be required before making that sale. You might note we have no big ads in kite mags pushing lessons and promoting Tampa Bay as a place to come. On our website, there is no info regarding kite lessons or instant sign up. If you really look at our marketing of kiteboarding, IMO, it is totally on the down low. Our best form of advertising is word of mouth, and we would like to keep it that way. We have no interest in becoming a Real kiteboarding center. We, just as many of you, want to see the sport grow in a healthy way.

Some good healthy discussion. Thanks for everyone's points of view. Let's continue to ride safe, set the example, and continue to educate the inexperienced.

[bayflite]

Originally Posted by Steve-O

We would never sell a kite to a local before instruction. A minimum of 3 hour safety and 2 hour on water lesson would be required before making that sale.

that is good news!

Originally Posted by Steve-O

(partial quote from other thread)...

1. Focus efforts on your home turf. Promote and create safe riders. Team riders and instructors for a shop should be setting the highest example for safe riding practice. Failure to comply means no more benefit or no more job. Setting the highest example that you can will make an impact on others around you.

I am glad to see you feel this way Steve.

Can we please have a list of the WSW instructors and sponsored riders along with the standards (guidelines) that you expect them to uphold.

Please include information such as the following as a starting point - -

1) The distance from shore they will maintain while riding (both at places like EB and at the Gulf Beaches).
2) Distance from shore they will maintain during lessons.

3) Places that are acceptable to teach. I know you choose to teach in a semi-remote area with boat support.
What standards are WSW instructors held to? Are beach lessons acceptable just off shore with no vessel assistance?
In other words, just walking out 30 feet or so.


It's good to see WSW stepping up to the plate and taking a lead role by setting some examples.
I am certain the WSW team will follow any guidelines you lay down or "lose it" as you say.

It's going to be nice to have so many great role models this season.

I guess you decided to edit the prior post to include who does what.
Surprised it doesn't say "edit". My posts always do when I edit them.
Either way, at least it's up there.

[Steve-O]

I and some others are on our way to Sunset. A great place to teach on a Westerly. Flat water and tons of space.

I will respond later tonight, but all reasonable requests and definately looking forward to leading the charge in being great role models.

[Steve-O]

Man, what a day. Sunset was going off. Again, a great crew of guys up there.

The items mentioned in Scott's post are valid IMO. I want to set a good model for kiting and think I already do. I believe the team riders mentioned set an excellent example for others to follow. Where my work needs to be done is with instructors. There is definately room for improvement in that area. I can't promise overnight success, but it is something I will address as this new season progresses with each instructor we use. Do I think they do a great job? You bet. Do I think there is room for improvement? Absolutely. Do we need more consistency....yup!!!!

I am not sure why my post doesn't show edit, because I went back and shortened the philosophy part. It was a bit long winded. But names and instructors was part of the original post.

On a sad note for any Dave Matthews Band fans out there.....Leroi, the sax player died today of complications from an ATV accident. I am a huge fan of the band and especially the sax player. Unfortunate he would lose his life simply riding an ATV around his own farm. Another grim reminder of how precious life is. He will be missed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26302031/

[ricki]

Excellent initiative Steve, keep going with it. btw, previously "edited by" normally wouldn't show up if the edits were performed within a hour or so of the original post. Just changed it to 15 minutes. Keep up the innovation!

Sorry to hear about Leroi, he will be missed.

[Kiteboarding Tampa Bay]

Disclaimer:
This post is not aimed at anyone in particular, period. I have a good relationship with most shops and instructors in the area and hope to keep it that way, sorry if I offend anyone. My personal opinion does not necessarily reflect the views of TBKA, K4L, or ASF members.

I think the local instructors all do a pretty good job when teaching. I am sure there's room for improvement for more respectful riding practices when they aren't teaching, myself included.
The intro class is the first thing I tell my students about when booking a lesson. It is a prerequisite to a water lesson and worked really well last season. Sure, most of the people that call me end up getting a lesson from another instructor, but at least they're getting lessons. I am fine with that. I also personally feel that (industry-wide), lessons and gear sales should be separated ,as it is an obvious conflict of interest. My interest is in building respect for the proper learning channels (certified instruction with a complete lesson plan) and the $elfish actions of a few are making these problems much more difficult than they should be.

Since this is a positive talk about instruction, we could discuss solutions for:
1. uncertified instructors
2. poor choice of teaching location
3. Gear sales before water training
4. Local Surf shops selling kite gear
5. roadside sales- (special discounts during hurricanes!)
6. Laying out acceptable guidelines/distances for both riding and teaching in our area. (then we can start issuing pats on the back)

BTW, kristrudo- whoever said that East Beach is an advanced location is spreading bad information. It is well known that EB is the best location we have for beginners. What makes it "advanced" for them is that no advertising or gear sales are permitted. We are committed to following the rules laid out by park officials

On less controversial note, local certified instructors can obtain Liability insurance through KTB for roughly the cost of a 3 hour lesson. This will soon be offered with several more options for certification/coverage.

TBKA and its parent organizations are actively working on everything mentioned that will get us back on the right track to preserve access and prevent accidents. Its time for us to really start working together to solve these recurring problems on our beaches.
A general membership meeting is in the works, I will post details soon.
More discussion of local topics at www.TBKA.org

Kite safe!
Steve S.

[bayflite]

i respect and admire your view H.
i hear ya...freedom can b messy.
but freedom without rules is annarchy
i'm just a selfish dude that hates the idea of losing access due2 kitemares perped on beach go'ers.
if we show the willingness to to self regulate, that may be all we need to convince THE MAN that we will do whatever it takes to keep non kiters safe. THE MAN could care less if we hurt ourselves.
we're all in this together.
L8

I have met about four people at the beaches who did not have lessons.

A couple said they purchased the kite from a store in Largo but did not say which one.

I just finished my lessons but was not riding yet and asked them not to try to fly the kites without lessons but they did it anyway.

It was really a little scary because the kite crashed so many times on the beach with people watching, I could tell they did not know how to launch the kite.

Someone should find the store in Largo and do something about it.

It would be sad to see someone get hurt trying to fly a big kite in the storm.

[Erick]

Originally Posted by kitekristrudo

Someone should find the store in Largo and do something about it.

It would be sad to see someone get hurt trying to fly a big kite in the storm.

I’m not putting in doubt what you saw at the beach on that day but it would be a little bit more helpful if next time you get more specifics. It’s hard to do something about without names or contacts.