SKY WAY WIND Currents WATER Currents

[bryanleighty]

tom.. that does not make sense.. i understand that it pulls thru the stopper.. but if the depower line is 20 inches X 2 (doubled over) .. when you release it should give a 40 inch depower right?

i assume this is still not enough to safely flag a kite...

check my next post.. creating a new forum thread..

It can only pull the depower strap to your bar... it just takes twice as much rope to do it because of the 2:1 advantage. The kite doesn't flag. It keeps flying.

The "safety" on a waroo is it's 90% depower. When you let go of the bar, that's the safety UNLESS you connect the leash to one of the outside lines in which case you have 98% depower and the kite is killed (well, spinning on one line anyway).

Using the chicken loop safety is effectively a "suicide leash" but with an automatically releasing stopper mechanism.

In 90% of the cases it is sufficient... but if the kite is looping or you are getting lofted you are screwed. Your only option is to ditch the kite.

FWIW this is why so many waroos got released the other day when it went from 15 to 35 ... really there is no other option but to ditch the kite (unless you connected to an outside line).

Originally Posted by inferno

I meant I would rather pull a QR in a total sh.t storm than try to unhook by the Billy method.
I've been hit by sustained storm winds of 50 plus knots of wind on an 11m C and pulled the QR and had it work. I would never try to pull out of the C-loop as my first option in that scenario. Bayflite and Billy were there that day. We saw the storm coming but pushed it a tad too long. We were going back to where we started (a ten minute run) when we got drilled.

I too have had a Surefire fail. It bent on me in an Oh-#$t scenario and kept me locked in.
The kite was looping out of control going toward shore at the SW.
If it wasn't for Zack Kaplan, odds are high I would have died. Odds are 100% I would have bare minimum broken a lot of stuff. He jumped on the kite and it's lines and stopped the kite. He cut his hand pretty bad. It was an honest to goodness hero move and I'll never forget it.

I never gave that Unsure not release system a second chance.

[bayflite]

all great points.
can't deney that.
peace

[RKITEKT]

Originally Posted by Skyway Scott

I meant I would rather pull a QR in a total sh.t storm than try to unhook by the Billy method.
I've been hit by sustained storm winds of 50 plus knots of wind on an 11m C and pulled the QR and had it work. I would never try to pull out of the C-loop as my first option in that scenario. Bayflite and Billy were there that day. We saw the storm coming but pushed it a tad too long. We were going back to where we started (a ten minute run) when we got drilled.

I too have had a Surefire fail. It bent on me in an Oh-#$t scenario and kept me locked in.
The kite was looping out of control going toward shore at the SW.
If it wasn't for Zack Kaplan, odds are high I would have died. Odds are 100% I would have bare minimum broken a lot of stuff. He jumped on the kite and it's lines and stopped the kite. He cut his hand pretty bad. It was an honest to goodness hero move and I'll never forget it.

I never gave that Unsure not release system a second chance.

Wow Scott, You've got me all worried now. I said that same thing about the best quick release when I couldn't get the thing to let lose while I was being dragged down the beach after a line snap and several tazmanian devil loops. Same thing happened to me, I was locked in being dragged and no way out. Someone jumped on my kite and someone jumped on me. That was it. I went out and bought a surefire after that. LOL Ok... after hearing your story... NOW WHAT DO I GET? HAHAHAHA

[RKITEKT]

I don't know why I am all worried now. It just dawned on me that I ACTUALLY have BOTH the surefire release as well as the best release on the chicken loop. If one fails, I have the other. REDUNDANCY! That's what it is all about.

Oh... but if the Surefire breaks and opens up versus locking up on you, then that is another story... get ready for a TOTAL POWERED UP RIDE TO HELL!!!!

[jim]

This is just opinion but if you are in an emergent situation and you are using the bypass option on the best bar(or flexi axis bar which is the same) you wont have time to switch leash from center ring to an outside flying line, let alone undo the velcro . the only quick reliable leash position for total killing of kite is an outside line, and thats where your leash should be in the first place. It is in the way in this position-a compromise no doubt.

Jim is right... thats why I usually suggest crashing the kite in the water first to KILL it ... grab the o-shit handle (god please remember to undo the velcro... I usually leave mine undone), release your leash if you can't transfer it, and THEN pull the QR. I had to do this a few months ago at backside when my bridle snapped and my kite started looping. In between the loops, crashes, and relaunches I managed to grab an outside line and release everything else.

If you know it's getting crazy (dark clouds coming, gusty weather, slightly overpowered, etc) then you should already be rigged with the leash on the outside line.

I use the center depower because I've been trying a lot of unhooked stuff and dont want to keep crashing my kite... that becomes a hazard for everyone else.

That's actually an excellent point Jim (and Tom). If you plan on using the outside line o-shit handle(s) for safety while riding, you HAVE to undo the velcro from the base of the leader lines so that the velcro does not wrap around the leader line. You should do thins before hitting the water, not when the sh.it hits the fan.
When wrapped around the leader line, the velcro is so strong, it will disallow the O-shit handle from functioning, no matter how hard you pull it. If you pull hard on it while the kite is in the sky, it might loop the kite.

I didn't read the manual (who does?) on the first day I got the BEST bar at EK to demo it. I loved the bar but thought to myself "this velcro is a death trap". I called Billy at Best (think he is gone now) and voiced concern. He said "read the manual", and sure enough in the manual (which is online), it says that (somewhere).
The thing is, it's an online manual and WHO reads that? As I remember it, the sentence wasn't in red or easy to find either (at least back then).

As much as I love the Best bar, the velcro (the amount of it) is total overkill for doing its job of aiding in the wrap up of lines when done kiting.
But, I wonder how many riders know that the O-shit won't work "out of the box" until the velcro is removed from around the line and re-attached not enveloping the line?
Even if you know it, it's just one more thing to maybe forget.
It's an oversight on the safety system, imo.

I also agree with Tom about crashing the kite first. If the kite is in the water, it can't loft you. If you are trying to find you QR with the kite in the sky..... you are looking for and at, your QR and ignoring the kite momentarily. This allows two things to possibly occur-

1) More time to get lofted (kite is in the sky, maybe right above your head)
2) Gives the kite the opportunity to loop. You might actually pull on one side of the bar, especially when grabbing for that O-shit handle that IS velcroed down

In addition, you will probably cover less ground when the kite is in the water.
When its in the sky it usually pulls you further (toward land).
Putting the kite in the water effectively removes on (big) variable (possible lofts, kiteloops) from the equation and might even buy you more time.

Good points Tom and Jim.

I wonder how many people with the Best bars think the O-shit handles work out of the box?

Originally Posted by RKITEKT

Wow Scott, You've got me all worried now. I said that same thing about the best quick release when I couldn't get the thing to let lose while I was being dragged down the beach after a line snap and several tazmanian devil loops. Same thing happened to me, I was locked in being dragged and no way out. Someone jumped on my kite and someone jumped on me. That was it. I went out and bought a surefire after that. LOL Ok... after hearing your story... NOW WHAT DO I GET? HAHAHAHA

I guess nothing works all the time. The only QR I have ever had fail was the SS one. I don't know!? I am going to start wearing a hook knife around a bungee on my wrist. It's going to look kind of weird, but oh well.

I thought there was concern about hooking to a back line on bow/hybrid kites?
I honestly don't know, I am looking for answer on this.

Funny (but scary) thing is that most of my real close calls were on C-kites and I "know what to expect". I feel that a lot of my experience with critical situations (which can only be gained by going through them, unfortunately) got flushed down the toilet with the SLEs.
I love SLEs and being on them, but I guess I am saying I feel I don't have much "gotten my ass kicked experience on them" and sometimes that inexperience concerns me.

ESPECIALLY since we can ride a 14m SLE (power equivalent of an old 19m C) up to 25 knots. I would have gotten blown off the 19m C at 17, NO questions asked, probably more like 15, actually.

That is one thing about the C kites. We HAD to hop off the water at a certain point.
Now, with the SLEs we have more kite power up (most of the time anyway) when stuff goes bad. Also, the kites turn faster.
It's a real concern for me, especially since we "lost" a lot of group experience (from vets) because not all the C-kite "knowledge" transfered over to the SLEs. (I hope that makes since).