Time to get organized.. stop the b.s. and get some stuff done.
 

Maybe this could be a forum thread that is b.s. free and just a slinging back and forth of ideas on how we can do as much as we can to regulate our launch areas before things get out of control and others do it for us.

Fact is that if there is a serious accident involving someone other than a kiter things could get ugly for us. We are becoming a densely populated group and many communities around the state and the nation have already imposed limitations. That is probably inevitable .. but.. if we get our shit together now and forum an organization with the best intentions, it might be the only way we can show that we are doing all we can.

** It will be impossible to stop all accidents or all new riders from doing what the hell they want.. but if we had some sort of agreed on organization it would be a great place to start **

There are a number of issues in our area, but the A # 1 thing that needs to be addressed is identifying new riders.

I have always liked the idea of wearing some sort of color band or tag on our harnesses or leash line to indicate either our level of kiting skills or something like that.

If we had some color of band that just indicated that you were a competent rider based on a certification or something it would be easy for other riders to identify them.

Maybe another color that indicated a certified rider but also one that was of a "mentor" status that anyone could come talk to regarding help or questions. I know that when I started, if there had been someone that could have talked me through some of my earlier sessions after my lessons it could have kept my "learning mistakes" to a minimum. A mentor would not be an instructor, but just someone that could help out those that had post-lessons questions. Someone who would be willing to put down their kite to assist others on the beach for a short while to keep things as safe as possible.

None of us know who the new riders all are, but we know they have questions and just really want to get up and riding as fast as possible. If we has some sort of identifying ourselves as approachable riders for all questions it might be just the thing to get the newbies starting the conversation instead of us trying to identify them through their bad habits and having to start the conversation ourselves.

And then maybe another color that indicated full certified instructor.

I dont recognize 80% of the people on the beach anymore.. I am always willing to help those that need help.. If new riders knew that folks with a certain color band were there to help, it might be enough to get conversations started.

This is just an idea.. but I think if we honed it down and figured out a way to get the message out on what the colors meant it could alleviate some issues.
Maybe a Green band for all riders, a Yellow band for mentors and an Orange band for instructors. Get a snazzy logo on it and figure out a way to get is distributed to all local riders and figure out a way to get local instructors to use it for their students.

More ideas? better ideas?

not really that bad of an idea.... but i dont think you will be able to get all new riders wearing a certain color, some dont want to be known as a newbie... thats just the way it is...

but i would have no problem wearing a wrist band that signified a fairly competent rider that welcomed any questions from newer riders

i was thinking the cotton ones that football/soccer/baseball players wear, but it wouldnt dry well...
maybe we can get mr ebone to sew us up some from some sort of quicker drying elastic material....

the rubber bracelets like the lance armstrong ones wear well in the water but do fade.

Someone please research this idea as it relates to the mangrove bandits "inner circle of communication". I just don't want to unknowingly wear the "wrong" bracelet. :confused:

Okay, let's self-regulate then!!! I looked into the cost of getting some wooden signs made up. The cost for some small 4'x4' plywood rules signs is:

$155.09 per 4 x 4 Plywood sign. This puts the total for 4 of these signs (one at front side Skyway, one at Backside Skyway, one at East Beach (pending Rangers approval) and one at North Beach (pending Rangers approval) at $620.37. We would then obviously need to add posts, concrete to pour in the hole to hold the sign in place during storms, etc but we should be able to self regulate with signs for about $650.00. Now we just need to raise the cash to get these produced.

Roy has some nice rainbow colored ones. Seriously though, i have a big box of catalogs from a promotions company with TONS of stuff. i'll look thru it tonight and see if anything jumps out at me. I'll get back on the forum tomorrow morning at work (don't have a computer at home right now)

Both pretty good ideas (bands and sign). I agree the beginners will not wanted to be labeled as such, but if the instructor "recommended" they wear the bracelet it might help.

"If you wear this green band the guys will know you are just starting and will help you out if you get into trouble. Anyone wearing a red band will help you if you need it at any time ... that means they are volunteering to help beginners on that day."

That would have made me wear a green one when I started. I remember being terrified I'd get in someone's way, or do something wrong and piss someone off, or hurt myself.

If I'd known who was friendly and willing to help me out it would have been a lot easier than going to big beach to ride alone.

Put me down for a mentor, helper, volunteer or whatever you want to call it, and I will wear it every time I ride ... as long as it doesn't secretly mean I am gay or something.

the problem is that it seems not many new people still feel "terrified to get in someone's way" like many of us did. I always feel more secure knowing that somenoe is "keeping an eye on me" just in case.

how we do it ...
 

ya' I am old school but here is how I have seen it done and got it done ...

ya' see someone who is irresponsible you just have to have some nads, go up to him (or her) and say you are a danger to yourself and others and get off the beach

I have seen this happen on the back side of the skyway once and at Desoto (and I really respected the kiters that stood up and did it)

we have a couple kooks that kite periodically in SRQ and Venice and we just tell 'em to go home and get lessons

this swill piss some kiters (newbees) off but it is the simplest and most immediate way to GET RID of a problem

OS/Sarasota

oldschool..

problem w/ that is that you dont know who is the newbie or not..
2 seasons ago i knew everyone at every launch i did..

last season I might have recognized 25%.

its a zoo out there.

i think a single color to signify "competent" & single color to signify "mentor" would be fine..

new riders would not have a band .... would never want to put a "newbie" band on anyone and no one would want it that way.

i am thinking something that attaches to the back of the harness or clips to the safety leash.

basic scenario would go something like this:

you are at the beach.. see someone rigging and they dont have a color band / harness clip thingy and you simply go up and talk to them..
they say they are visiting from somewhere and have been riding for 2 years then you say .. cool have fun..
no band needed..

or..
they say they are local and just got lessons and you tell them about the color bands and let them know that once they are up to competent level they should get one so that they are not questioned every time they show up at a beach.

if they are backside you might say "hey .. this is not a place for beginners.. you should go to ***** instead.. "..

if this is a positive thing for all, it will more accepted. if its used as a way to discriminate against new riders, then its absolutely pointless.

we would need to agree on who could distribute the bands.. should not cost anyone a single cent.. just something they can wear to show they know what they are doing so us old folks on the beach dont have to wonder about every single unfamiliar face we see.

we might need to get a handful of locals together at the undertow to talk specifics..

relax on that get off the beach stuff
 

Hey oldskool..thats a bad idea. If im doing something wrong show me the right way to do it like someone showed you. You come over and tell me to get off the beach your probably gonna get your ass kicked. This is the wrong way to go about this. Most of us are adults and will welcome constructive critisizim(?) But telling someone to get outa here......not so good.

you could just laminate some green paper and put some symbol or signature on from whoever hands the cards out. Then just put a metal clip on it and walla. Should be cost effective and the signature could verify authenticity.

id be happy to help eat the costs with the school funding we got for the club this year, including but not limited to signs at beach, Locals Bands/ Distribution, built in air compressors @ EB and Skyway, Safety Clinics for local officials, St. Pete Beach Police, ECSAR, St Pete Police, Local Coast Guard, Desoto park Rangers, ect...

If anyone has local contacts with people to coordinate these things it would be appreciated, I already have the ECSAR, and police contacts covered.
-TritonKiteboarding.com

I think the labeling system is a kick ass idea and will help however I can! I too would be happy to provide my limit knowledge to anyone and help out anyone who looks to be in trouble. I will sign up to be a "mentor" if we are going to get this thing going.
As for fixed signs at Skyway...who would you even ask? And is it worth asking the DOT to have one there? I'm not sure I would temp fate on that one quite yet. East beach might be easier, since the rangers there seem to be comfortable with us and we are more "legitimate" there.

Great Idea Lets move forward
 

I support Bryan 100% percent - It is getting worse every year.

My suggestion is we draft a simple charter 1 page - we can borrow from many I have seen on-line and get the colors down and what type of band thing.

We don't have to wait and get everyone on board if enough of us start it then we can use the upcoming season to promote it.

I also would think some bumper stickers would work well to promote and identify anyone who is part of the organization.

Eckerd College Search and Rescue seems like a winner for sure. They don't have any real authoritative power to tell us what to do, but at the same time could offer great assistance in a time of need.

Several people, especially E-bone, have brought up some valid points about self-regulation and the exclusion of outside authority, hence the term self regulation. E-bone's view, if I remember correctly, was that by inviting the authorities (people with the power to pass regulations) to the table, we are potentially inviting regulation on our kiting activities that might vary from what we actually would like (a ban for instance). His points seem valid and we might want to consider in greater detail having discussions with the police. I don't know. I obviously have talked to some authority figures in the past, and as I recall, caught hell for it.

It might be a good idea if we successfully figure out how to police ourselves and prove how responsible we are to ourselves before we try to include outside authorities. Just a thought. I don't know the right answer.

I kind of like the band idea, but am a little unsure on it's final goal. The "problem" at hand, that several of us have agreed to it seems, is that riders that can't consistently ride upwind probably shouldn't be at the SW and they pose a threat to themselves and our access. Is that the consensus?

If so, how are we going to make sure that riders that can't sufficiently hold ground and maneuver around riders not ride at the SW?
Isn't that one of the primary self policing issues? A sign seems cool, but it just sits there. Ultimately a real live person enforces what the sign says, right? Who and how is that going to happen?

Telling a totally clueless person to put down their gear is black and white and quite simple for me to do. Telling a person to hop off the water due to a qualitative judgment gets trickier.

Or do I have it totally backwards? Are we going to basically all take on one kiter under our wing each session and make sure they get back to the launch area at the SW after they drift to the rocks? Are we each going to wrap up their "lesson" to the point that they are somewhat competent?

There has to be a reasonable approach in there somewhere. Don't instructors often evaluate their own students and give them some sort of skill level ranking? Maybe we could have a SW level ranking. It gets tricky fast, no doubt.

The people that are going to cause problems at the beach past having a few people just talk to them, are always going to cause problems.

If having someone talk to that person and tell them they really shouldn't be riding and it's a danger and they blow them off, how is a colored piece of cloth, or a sign going to help?

The furthest that we should have to go is to have someone or a few people tell the person they're a danger and they need more lessons.

Having signs out there wouldn't solve anything. Because if there are signs there stating rules, and somebody breaks the rules and gets hurt, wouldn't it open up liability for the land owner? You know, since there's nobody there enforcing the rules, it's that persons fault.

For instance, take east beach for example.
We place a sign.
New guy comes out doesn't see it. Gets somebody to launch the kite, or launches it himself. Someone stops the person, tells him about the sign, and he goes and reads it.
New guy decides he's above the rules on the sign (which we all would be anyways since it's just a random sign we concocted and placed without actually having any legal rules).
New guy launches anyways and gets hurt.
He could claim the rules were there, but he didn't see them or there was nobody there to tell him they were there.
New guy decides to press charges against the park.
Park is pissed, bans kiting.

The only way I'd support a sign or any of the other stuff is if it was official. Which I wouldn't want either because if the rules are being enforced, people would be caught breaking them all the time and sooner or later the spot would be banned.

We want to police ourselves without being noticed. A sign is a bad idea. The wristband idea isn't bad, but I don't see it as really working. There are far too many kiters to get them out to everyone whom rides.

I'm not even worried about the beginners so much as the guys whom are jumping WAY too close to shore and jumping in other people's way constantly.
This is an issue that REALLY needs to be addressed. If a new ignorant guy whom has never taken lessons gets hurt, it can be seen as just the guy who grabbed a huge kite and tried to do something stupid. Now, if a more advanced rider goes out and gets hurt/hurts others then we will be more viewed as a whole.

Take for instance Josh (I'm not picking on Josh, I actually never see him jump really close to shore hence why I'm using him).
Let's say Josh is riding off of Redington Beach, jumping close to shore, throwing mobes, showing off for the ladies, and just having a great time. Then on a jump really close to shore something breaks, or something goes wrong and he smashes into a girl, a really hot one even. How will it make us look that one of our Best riders caused such an accident? People will pull for a ban on kiting because if such a competent rider can still cause such an accident then nobody will want ANY riders near them.

Just my $.02

what say we get together Sept 1 (saturday) or Sept 2 (sunday) for a couple hours to have a drink, get some food and discuss the options.

i KNOW that a system in place will never be perfect.. but if we have to try something now before this season.

We can never tell someone they cannot ride at SW.. but if we can identify those new riders before they are on the water we will be one step ahead of where we are right now. If a large portion of the local kiters agrees to something like this I will bet you cash money that a huge percentage of the new riders will see the benefits as well.

signs at the launches might not be feasible .. EB signs might not work as they may make Ft. Desoto liable. not sure on that..

Another major thing to think about... if we have a local organization in place and make it as public as possible it might go a long ways to show that the majority of the group is serious about safety and responsibility. This might come into play if an accident does occur...

We all should take Steve up on his cert offers. I know he mentioned he could do it for cheap for all interested.

Steve if you want to get a date/time in place I bet a number of folks would show up to get certified.

I will be in michigan for labor day weekend, but i do have a suggestion to throw out there that is a bit strange to some of you but that has worked in other water activities that i have organized.As soon as i can get a break here today i'll explain it in detail...

I'm not really sure where this thread is heading... but i am all for people getting their self recovery cert because recovering boards for people who can't body drag, and recovering kites for people who can't self rescue is getting old. Yeah I always do it, but these are things they should have learned and practiced in their lessons...

However, while that is a start it doesn't take care of the current problem.

Who are going to be the kite cops at the skyway (or anywhere else), and how many of us are going to back them up when they try to convince someone they should not ride at that particular time for whatever reason?

This has to be agreed... if X comes to you and asks for help confronting someone you drop what you are doing and round up a few more people to make it clear it's a group feeling, not just one safety nazi trying to be a dick.

BTW, I did this not long ago with Scott and Bob at PAG and we were pretty much blown off and ignored. I posted our experience here, then it got real ugly, got roasted, but there was finally some positive change... then I heard it was back to square 1 a few weeks later. Hopefully that's not true, we don't ride there anymore.

So, while I am all for doing something, I am not convinced anyone will take it seriously, especially some of the local instructors who are doing their own thing.

I would get a dialog going between instructors before proceeding any further. After all, they are the ones who pushed out all of these new riders at $75-$100/hr so they should be the ones taking the first steps regarding their safety. And who else are these riders going to listen to and respect, but their instructor?

So get all of the instructors to agree on something and I'm sure we'll all go along with it.

..... not true, 203 918 6637 since you dont ride here anymore call that number and get the first hand update.
-Matt Sexton
TritonKiteboarding.com

okay. this is a VERY VERY rough sketch of this plan. We've been using it in the YMCA for many many years for keeping track of who's who and what level they are at.

Its basically a large pegboard with hooks in each of the holes. there will be a container of "cards" (not sure the details on this one yet) that you could write your name on in wet-erase marker or grease pencil. Here's a basic idea of the layout...

It won't let me send it big, so if you want to see it in better detail, PM me and i can email it to you...

There should also be an asterix on there that states something about always looking out for yourself and also your bro's...whether you/they are a great rider or not.

Great, thanks.

I’m all for getting a cert card, no problem, but that doesn’t help spot trouble before it happens without adding some sort of visual indicator. I was thinking of colored wrist bands. one color indicates you are a proficient rider or better. Another color means you are proficient and also willing to help out and monitor. A third color would indicate I’m still learning and I’m open to suggestions. No wrist band gets you some questions and an invitation to qualify for an arm band. Either the monitors or the instructors could hand out bands. I also think some signage would be helpful too.

Bob

there are problems with the wrist bands that i'm not sure how to address. First of all, what happens when i progress from a red to a yellow? Who decides? What if people forget their bracelet or from out of town. How do we know that one of the kite-police will be at all major launches all season?

If we had boards at major launches, we can keep track of how many people are there, and when they write their name on the tag, they can put "blue waroo" or whatever. So if someone arrives later, they can check in, check the board to see who is on the water and what level they are at. If someone is wearing a red bracelet, chances are that i will not be able to see what color it is until he is too close! :) The buddy board would not have to be "manned" all the time. That way if there's 5 riders at a launch, they can check the board when taking a break or arriving and see who they are riding with. Rules and regs can be posted on the side of the boards. Just some ideas. Staffing is a large problem for a lot of this and the boards are pretty much self sufficient. (we will need people at the beginning enforcing "checking in" but that would have to happen with bracelets as well.

Lots of good ideas. I'd wear a wrist band or a colored kite leash or whatever and something definitely needs to happen. I'm in for a beer and a chat but not on Sat the 1st. Signs would be great and are worth discussing but I think Skyway Scottie is right; who do you ask for permission and what if they react by just shutting us down. It almost seems to me like we need to have some sort of organization or local club ( I don't know how to get around liability with this, but...) and when I walk up to someone with my cool club sticker or patch and tell you to get off the water and go to EB I speak with the support of every other member. To be a member you would have to pass an instructors' skills or certification test and earn your way in. Triton Matt, I think your energy is awesome and I think with the support you have with Eckerd and the support Eckerd has in the community that you could maybe pull strings to make some of your suggestions happen. We could even use some similar type of format from your club to starting an independent organization. I don't know but it's worth looking into. (PS. the air compressor idea rocks)

Skyway is without question an intermediate to advanced riding spot and if we want to keep it we need to grow some chest hair and keep newbies outta there. When I was learning I probably went to skyway 5 times to watch the sessions but I knew I had no business riding there.

It is also important for us to stress to newbies that not every windy day is a good day for them to learn. Riding one windy day in the middle of summer is not the way anyone is gonna learn. It took me 2-3 months to ride upwind consistently.

I saw that guy at skyway and almost said something the moment I arrived. I thought though that I saw him ride upwind a couple of tacks so I sloughed it off. Now I wish I would have because his monkey kite was a 12 m and he had it up b4 the wind came, which raised my flags since i saw 16 m's on the beach waiting for the blow to happen. But I only knew 3 people of about 25 out there and I ride that spot maybe 10 times or so a year, so I don't know if Joe Blow is a regular or not. But if we had an organization or some way to identify ourselves as non newbies then I think as a community we would recognize unqualified individuals b4 they even launch and avoid more accidents. If we avoid 1 accident then it's worth it.

Maybe the bracelets could be something like the following:

GREEN: less than a full year of experience
YELLOW: more than a full year of experience
RED: instructor or volunteer (someone expecting to be approached for help)

This eliminates any sort of qualification test... and everyone is labeled either beginner, experienced, or someone expecting to help people that day.

Generally anyone with a yellow band can help but the red bands are expecting it. When you feel you've had enough of being kite bitch for the day, you can take it off and put your yellow one back on.

If you don't have a band, you are assumed to be green.

Thoughts?

I think that sounds like a definite possibility Tom. Especially the part about no bracelets automatically being green unless they prove otherwise. there would still need to be rules posted somewhere about this because not everyone reads the forum and there are some kiters that kite as a hobby (not a lifestyle like many of us). They're not around enough to keep up with the latest stuff so we'd need a way to get the message to everyone arriving at the launches. (including newbies)

However... people like Matt Sexton picked up kiting in a few sessions and has turned into a great advocate for the sport around here as well as one of the best riders in the Tampa Bay area. I would trust him with my life WAAAAAY before I would some Tom, Dick, or Harry who has ridden 5 times in the last two years or has taken more than a year to become competent.

There needs to be some other sort of qualifications that don't need to be tested, but described. If you look at the attachment i posted, you can see descriptions of 3-4 different "types" of riders and those can definitely be expanded upon (i thought them up real quick in the middle of work).

sounds ike a good idea, but not sure how well it will work...
i know some riders that have been kiting over a year but only get to do it everyonce in a while and are not extremely good at it yet, but then you have riders like josh (the ripper) that can throw more moves then 3 trick scott :) after only a month or two.....
2 cents

Yellow isn't a statement of skill. It means we don't have to babysit.

If it's obvious that someone can't ride, they are not given a yellow band.

I don't think a board with chips, skill levels, etc is going to work ... it doesn't identify the rider, and it requires a sign every 300 feet along a beach for clips rings, whatever. If I ride up to someone on the water during a down winder or something and ask them to hold/catch my kite, how do I know if they are a beginner? I can't go back and look at the register board.

The bands on the other hand can be done right now, without any major cost involved, and it's obvious even on the water.

Either instructors can hand out green bands to beginners (which I don't expect to happen), or everyone else can wear a yellow band.

I really expect only yellow and red to be used.

So if someone is wearing a band, you can safely assume they know what they are doing. If they are not wearing a band, and you don't know them, you can assume they are a beginner.

The real advantage of the band is to say "hey, you don't know me, but this band is telling you I know what I am doing so don't worry about me".

Of course the only way this will work is if everyone who has been riding for awhile is willing and remembers to wear the bracelet each time they ride.

Another option might be to do a single wrap of yellow electrical tape around one side of the bar.

This wasn't my idea, I'm just trying to refine it.

i think the bands could work but definitely need work and agreement. However, i think the reverse colors would be better like a traffic light. If you see a red rider you should watch out and look both ways. A yellow...stay a safe distance and use caution but not a hazard. Green bands mean you can sail thru being confident that the green rider is a competent and safe rider.

The part about the downwinder makes sense but i don't think most of our safety issues exist with downwinders. its with crowded launches with hazards. these would only need to be posted at the major launches in the area. (EB,skyway,lassing,PAG? etc)

The tags on the board would identify the rider and the kite they were flying. When you arrive, you walk (don't need to be every 300 feet) to the board, check in and see people's info. and add your own. When you come in to take a break (every couple hours or so) you take another look at the board if you notice a lot of different/new kiters on the water since you started.

Another feature that we used at the harbor i worked at in the keys was to write weather forecasts for that day and possibly the next. Just like in boating, if its windy, they put out small craft advisories. If it is gusty and possibly hazardous wind, we can point that out on the boards so that when people arrive they have suggestions. such as "very gusty, onshore wind...not recommended for green riders".

Just throwing out thoughts as well...

Good ideas, but maybe a bit too hopeful at this point. We are struggling to even get people to park in the right place.

I understand the board idea... I've used it while racing r/c cars, kart racing, r/c flying events, etc.

But, when you look at the board and it says "Mike, beginner, green waroo" and you look out on the beach and see 15 green waroos, it's not very helpful.

On the water, forget it. Half the time I can't even remember the names and faces of people I've met a dozen times already, much less Mike on a green waroo, or the 30 other people who are on the board I can't read from the water.

In kart racing, a beginner usually has a white X on the back of his helmet. This tells other drivers to avoid him like the plague and give him plenty of space while passing.

It seems to me the arm bands are probably the easiest solution so far. You can almost always see a rider's wrists... even while they are body dragging.

But, since we won't know who the beginners are going to be, the only way we can do it is to wear one if we are NOT a beginner.

If you're not wearing a band, you're either a beginner, not a local, or just not familiar with how things are being done now and someone should walk up and ask you some questions and give you a band if you need one.

It's like the "hey, u guys know me and know I can ride" club... either you're in it, or you are not.

If Stevil wants to do a skills checkout for beginners before they get a band, that's fine with me.....

Hell I'll be the first one to wear the band too, I don't care. I'll sleep with it on
if I need to remember to wear it.

We'll need one in rainbow for E-Bone.

i'd love to hear others' ideas about this topic... I agree the board is being hopefull but it an idea that we can keep in the back of our heads for future reference. :)

I like the band idea. There's no way I'm going to go out and spend the money to get certified just so I can have someone launch for me. I almost always have someone with me whom launches my kite anyways...

But really, what will we do if someone doesn't have a band?

Just talk to them?

What if they blow you off?

You've gotta at least try enforcing what we already have (buddy system) before throwing money and added ideas to the problem.

Before launching ANYONE you don't know, how about assuming they don't know what they're doing. Ask them how long they've been kiting for and even just test them on some hand signals before you do.

Problem solved without any wristbands.

Like in many things I think keeping it simple is better. After some reflection, I’d suggest using just two colors. Green for competent self-sufficient rider and above, red for volunteer mentor/monitor. Those without bands would be those still learning and requiring close supervision at difficult launch sites, and also newcomers. A sign could be posted along the lines of, Kiteboarders, this is an intermediate to advanced riding site, please talk to a kiter with a red wrist band for more information. Then some disclaimer of liability. The Red bander could then issue a green band upon demonstration of skills or suggest alternate launches or lessons. Anyone without a band would end up getting approached so often they would want to get a band, and there is no color that carries a weenie stigma. I think just super fat rubber bands would do, you can't find them just any place and it keeps the cost down so when I forget mine I can beg Scott for another without feeling guilty.

Bob

I like the way Tom views the matter. You can't really make people identify themselves as a something less-than-average. Nobody would be willing to do that. The idea is that without having the band they will be doing it to themselves. This idea of a band is feasible. If enough of us join in on it....those without the bands will just want to be "in the club" so to speak. It would also make the kiting scene look more organized to park officials, police/emt, and so forth when they notice some sort of a system that's been enacted. It will legitimize us and look as though we are actually taking steps to ensure the safety of our riders. For the rebels out there...We won't be able to keep them off the water, simply due to the fact that we have no authority. What can be done is a simple conversation to those without bands and give them advise on what they should or shouldn't do. If they choose to ride, at least we all know to stay the hell away from them. I would think after being approached time and time again for not having the band that person would eventually make the effort to find one. Obviously there would need to be more than one person dishing out the bands. Maybe people from our little fksa community that ride the most and in certain spots to make sure the bands get out to the most people. There's a few of us that are always on the water when there is wind....it could be done.

if it's something like a ribbon on a kite rather than a band that's fine too.

Hello y'all,
Sorry I haven't had a chance to read the last 4 pages of this novel so if I overlap anyone please dont take it personally.
What happened last week was very unfortunate. Hopefully the rider will recover quickly. After recently suffering a bad injury myself I can relate.
I agree that there needs to be a "policing" of ourselves.It can be done formally or informally. My opinion is that the best way is to post permenent signs at each congested riding area (I think Toby mentioned this).
Granted, to some this may seem like it will cause alarm but I think it, more importantly, shows that the Tampa Bay kitesurfing community cares and is taking action to educate and protect the riders and bystanders.

IT IS ABSOUTELY NECESSARY THAT WE POLICE OURSELVES, BUT I THINK IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE "POLICE" ON OUR SIDE.

Please check out the thread that I am starting "ST PETE KITESURFING POLITICS" to see how we can guarantee that kitesurfing will NEVER be banned in TampaBay.

I do agree that getting organized is not going to draw negative attention. If we ask for a sign to be posted, they will either be impressed, or just not care at all.

One thing is certain, we have to do SOMETHING, and we have to stick to it.

People don't follow traffic signs...why would they follow one of ours? Signs are only good if they are enforceable, which ours is not. If noobs want to ride they're gonna ride. They don't realize their skill level. It took me 3months of riding before I was self-sufficient and would even show my face to you guys at our launches. New riders are going straight to the skyway after the lesson. WE need to police it...not a sign. The police could care less about us putting a sign up. Unfortunately, nobody follows the signs they put up.