eric- you went to graphic design school, right??

First off bro no apologies needed whatsoever. You were in the land of the bunny rabbits and understandably so.

Ok. The lines of the kite definitely were grabbed by the tree and the kite drilled the top of the fence. The tree grabbing the 2 lines probably are the only reason it didn't completely clear the fence and go in the road because when the kite looped they shortened the distance between you and the kite and allowed the kite to hit the fence. After telling you that "you lived, just relax" I broke the kite down ASAP to get it off of DOT's hands. Outta sight outta mind ya know. The left side of the kite was torn a little and the LE was deflated, so I think your bladder is done. The bridle was well tangled in the top of the chain link, and as I was deflating struts I noticed there was a torn bridle line that looked like it broke from tension. This line was on the same side of the kite as the tear. The other 2 lines were in the tree and stayed there for about ten minutes. They were well tangled and I tugged pretty hard to get them free. I was careful to roll up your kite without tearing it any more, so there may be some salvage potential. All struts were inflated after the incident was over, so they are good.

When you did hit the QR, the kite was definitely stopped and you crawled a half crawl and released it in about 4-5 seconds from stopping.

Also, that slab of concrete was not alone. There were others that were just submerged and were out a little from the beach. I think those were the ones you hit. It happened real fast though bro.

How are you feeling today?

Glad to hear that you are ok. I still don't like to think that any accident is unavoidable. I won’t comment on the bridal wear issue or the inspection, but like it or not, bridal wear will be prevalent on any kite with good use and I would assume that this is also the case with your 2-3 year old kite if you have not changed them. Let’s assume that as you said there was no visible wear and that an inspection was done, then I too agree that unseen breakage can and will happen from time to time (as stated just above). We all know that pulleys break, lines can have unseen cuts, etc. Unseen and unexpected breakage is unavoidable. I agree.

While I do understand that you feel that this was not a case or rider error, I think that we should review 3 issues that to me are clearly areas for improvement. Addressing any of these issues would have helped you and others to avoid similar issues in the future. The reason for bringing this up is not to question judgment, but in hopes that others will learn from this.

#1. The choice of leash with out an accessible QR was totally avoidable. Using a leash with out a QR could be considered the first and most glaring instance of rider error. It’s a bad idea under all circumstances. Getting caught by another kite, catching a boat, or being dragged by a wave would have had you in poor condition in all cases.

#2 I'd like to know is where exactly was the leash attached to the depowering system? Was it above or below the QR? I am assuming that it was below the QR given that you stated that the secondary, disk shaped release was out of reach. There would have been no reason to deploy this if your leash was above the QR, and attaching a leash above the QR if the leash doesn’t have a QR is unadvisable.

#3. If the leash was connected below the QR, unhooking could be seen as the third error. At this point, unhooking just negated having a breakaway system, thus putting safety out of your reach. If you leash was attached above the QR, then you MUST have a QR that is a part of your leash and is with in inches of your harness. Mine for example is attached to a steel ring at the back of my harness. I can get to in under all circumstances. It is important that your release in this area is one that is pulled AWAY from the body for release and not TOWARD the body.

Because I too have had a similar situation that I was fortunate to have walked away from, I have trained myself to carefully analyze my equipments safety features and have my action plan clearly thought out. I always attach my leash below the QR when launching and landing. Once safely offshore, I many times move the leash above the QR to avoid accidental releases. At this point, I have a good safety barrier similar to what you had. The difference is that because I always use a leash with a good and accessible QR, I simply would have used it. I have practiced using it and know exactly when to deploy it.

In short, it sounds as if you may have had a possibly undetectable catastrophic equipment failure. It seems as though you were on the correct size of kite for the conditions and that you have ample experience to have handled most situations that could have arisen. If this happened to you, no doubt it can happen to others. I am hoping that the 3 possible mistakes outlined above will be considered by others to avoid this in the future.

Just as any launch that is less than perfect is a BAD Launch, any equipment failure that causes an uncontrollable situation is catastrophic and the secondary release should be the PRIMARY thought. All riders need to carefully consider all 3 essential release mechanisms and understand when and how to deploy them quickly. While I am very happy to see that a bullet was dodged, it is important for all to know that this was an avoidable bullet irrespective of the failure. Equipment failure for any reason it not a reason to automatically get hurt. I’m sorry to have been so direct, but after reading so many posts indicating that they too agree that this was an unavoidable injury, some further education is definitely in order.

Kent

Tom - i see your point and i concur.

Kent,

Most companies make all kinds of nice marketing videos and pretty much zero safety vids (how to safely operate gear). I can't help but think a video/CD explaining how to react in this situation, how to self land if necessary, etc, could help riders. A video showing this clearly would really help.

Is a useful video showing how to attach leash, QR, self rescue on particular kites ever going to happen?
I am still amazed how little info is released to kiters through manufacturers in this regard. Every time something like this comes up, you can easily hear 5 different takes on what should be done. Yet, I don't see a company take on "best safety practices" in a useful video with SS or Cabrinha or Best or whatever kite. Is it because you guys are afraid of lawsuits? Or do you think companies just don't want to take the time to make the video available? Anyway, videos are more useful than words for most things and don't take too long to make. Just curious.

I like options. Here's my 2007 best bar. The ring below the bar fully depowers kite on front lines and releases the stopper ball. The others are for full tilt bailout. The front line ring will self land your kite like a champ.

[EDIT]: Not suggesting anyone replace their bar with a best bar ... but if you don't have enough options consider adding some additional rings. The front line ring is an addition on my bar and probably the most useful.

http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/bestbar.jpg

Here's a pic of what comes with the SB2 and SB3

It's the powerdrive 121

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/images/.../pd2n10800.jpg

Here's the pdf link to the instructions:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/press_r...21Overview.pdf

You notice it says to attach the leash directly to the chicken loop or directly above the QR. This is where I've been attaching mine.

But after reading this thread, I want to attach it to one of the 'flagging rings'.

EDIT: Here's the full 121 manual for those who wish to read more.

http://pr.cabrinhakites.com/manuals/...EnglishWeb.pdf

And this SHOULD be the full manual for the 221 that came with the SB1
http://pr.cabrinhakites.com/manuals/...21_English.pdf

Thanks Todd, I just read it.

One of my friends does not use the ring on the back of the harness to secure his leash, and instead attaches it around the spreader bar. That way he does not get pulled backwards when the leash is the only thing attaching you to the kite. I was getting pulled backward last week past the second sand bar and had to reach back to fully release the kite after I had pulled the first one to stop the kite from looping. Another buddy got dragged several hundred feet, and he was pulled backward as well, as he had attached his leash to the back of his harness. I am planning to move my harness attachment to the spreader bar as well.

Todd,

Thanks you beat me to it. Having refreshed myself with the older manuals, they do clearly indicate how to avoid accidents like the instance here. Tom, yes of course all of Cabs manuals are online and easy to download. The are very comprehensive and quite helpful. They come complete with drawings and pictures to help visualize. They also include all necessary information with respect to inspection, additional safety devices, and weather conditions. Go to www.cabrinhakites.com for more info. Check back regularly for updates.

The manuals do clearly indicate rider options for the safety leash attachment. See page 17 of the 06 manual for reference to my above post.

Kent

I believe that makes full sense to me if you are not into doing handle passes.

fwiw, it was Scott who was asking about the manuals.

Hey, Erick. It's Scary Harry who I was referring to. And he does not do handlepasses.

kent. thank you for sharing your expertise with us. I know I learned something out of it. I think that (at least for me) the general feeling about it being unavoidable was not the injury, but the equipment failure/kitemare. It seems the "world class athlete" had done a thorough job at inspecting his equipment before riding, making the bridle snap "unavoidable".

As for what transpired after that, it turns into fight or flight that is when the practice will hopefully default as "instinct" when its time to use the safety systems. Perhaps people should have an order of which saftey to deploy when.

Your candid approach is backed by a lot of education and experience, making it even more influential to those that have learned something from this. Thank you for your suggestions and insight.

Oh ok, not for me baby! LOL

Gris,

The only reason he got spun around is because his leash was attached to the handlepass leash attachment point on the mystic waist harness. The harness didn't actually spin around his waist but rather spun BILL around from the pull of the kite. Just FYI. ;)

Sorry Kent...do I know you? I am an educated and intelligent guy who happens to hold a masters in sports psychology as well. Your pseudo lecture and reprimand of my actions taken in an extreme situation are certainly not appreciated, even with your attempt to disguise them as concern or to "educate" us "less qualified and less experienced" kiteboarding enthusiasts.

Either you are a complete moron or you have issues with writing correctly. You should either take your post off the forum OR edit it so it reads properly to avoid a lawsuit IF you do indeed have some affiliation with Cabrinha. A couple of the most experienced and dialed in riders/instructors I just spoke with agree.

#1 The Mystic harness with the handle pass system, is set up as your QR system AT THE HARNESS. I relocated mine to the front of the harness, on the spreader bar attachment per two professional riders and two professional instructors. It is functional and serves in place of the QR on the leash, at the harness. I use CAB leashes for all of my other SBs and Best leashes for Best kites and SS for my Fuels. I know a dozen guys who ride hooked up the same way as I do. And I have never had a problem. The harness spun around, taking the QR on the harness of the Mystic in back of me, not readily accessible under the circumstances.

I just did a test with my knife from the Mystic harness. It took me 8 seconds TO CUT THROUGH MY LEASH. And this was in perfect, stand up, not stressed out, no water being pushed down my throat and no impending doom of death looming near the highway, being dragged at 25 mph. No chance you could do it this fast in the situation I was caught up in.

#2 Your second point here is confusing and poorly written. IF you represent or work for Cabrinha, then YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T RIDE CABRINHA KITES, or you simply can't convey your points properly. This is an SBI - Hooking in ABOVE OR BELOW QR makes no difference when the kite is doing fully powered up loops and the leash is stretched out about four feet (I just measured it). YOU CAN NOT REACH THE QR AT THE CHICKEN LOOP EITHER WAY. The difference between hooking in ABOVE OR BELOW as you said is exactly 1 and 1/2 inches from each other. IF you are hooked in BELOW - WHERE I WAS HOOKED IN and WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE - YOU STILL CAN NOT ACCESS THE QR WHEN THE LEASH IS STRETCHED OUT FOUR FEET AND PULLING LIKE A TRUCK AT 25-30MPH. Your biggest mistake is that hooking in ABOVE the QR as either you are attempting to say (it's very unclear here) is death. Try it yourself. I just did. I attached the bar to a tree, got in my harness and unhooked, with my leash attached ABOVE the QR as you said. I already knew what would happen and you should too. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTIVATE THE QR BY SLIDING IT FORWARD/UP/TOWARDS THE KITE AS THE ARROW INDICATES, AS THE FORCE OF LOAD FROM THE KITE PULLING ONE WAY AND THE LEASH PULLING THE OTHER PREVENTS YOU FROM PUSHING THE QR RED DISK AWAY FROM YOU. And that is IF you could climb up a 4 foot leash powered up with all the force of the load pulling away from you. Clarify this or remove it. You may very well get someone killed otherwise.

#3 The leash was attached BELOW the QR system which is ABOVE the chicken loop. UNHOOKING WAS NOT MY "THIRD ERROR" AS YOU SO ARROGANTLY AND IGNORANTLY IMPLIED. Have you ever been hooked in being pulled at 20-25 knots? IF you have, it's caos. Much more than if you are out of the hook and their is some distance and time to survey your options as you are most of the time (for an experienced rider), up on the water, porpoising and not being spun around in circles like a top, as you are attached to the power force at your center of gravity. IF YOU ARE HOOKED IN, MOST OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT PORPOISE LIKE YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE BEING PULLED BY YOUR LEASH. Unhooking allowed me face my problem head on, upright and not spinning around.

And, for reasons of safety to others in the water, on the land, on the beach and highway, I do NOT make a habit of breaking my kite away and just "letting it fly" at the first sign of trouble. Assuming the bar and lines are intact (and you don't have a cleanly snapped bridle line like I did), most riders understand that IF they are getting worked and out of the hook, that the kite will eventually crash AND stay in the water. I have been pulled a couple hundred yards in heavy winds knowing I had distance in my favor, no obstacles in my way, no other riders near and I was not going to drown or crash into something and you ride it out and wait for the kite to come down. Of course, it can relaunch a few times and work you again and again but it will eventually come down and stay down. Some times worse than others. I can tell you, however, that NOT ONE TIME, have I thought I needed to release the kite just from it looping a dozen times or so. I hang on and ride it out, get up, shake it off, relaunch and ride away. Have you ever watched Jason Orkins, Mike Hall or Bill Parker get pummeled? I have many times but I don't seem them break away or release their kites into crowded beaches.

Finally, the Mystic release mechanism for the handle pass leash is attached perfectly on my spreader bar, in plain sight and easily accessible. UNLESS, THAT IS, IF YOUR HARNESS HAS SPUN BACKWARDS FROM THE FORCE OF BEING PULLED BY YOUR LEASH AND IT IS NOW IN BACK OF YOU WITH THAT TOO SMALL OF A RED RELEASE HANDLE NOT READILY ACCESSIBLE.

I am wasting my time here but I will finish up addressing this ridiculous post. You stated - - "Because I too have had a similar situation that I was fortunate to have walked away from, I have trained myself to carefully analyze my equipments safety features and have my action plan clearly thought out." Give me a break, Kent. Let's rig you up in your gear with your "carefully analyzed safety features on your equipment, pull you behind a truck at say 25 mph while I pound on your head relentlessly and see how well your "action plan" plays out for you.

MY OFFICIAL AND FORMAL RESPONSE TO THIS IF YOU REPRESENT OR WORK FOR CABRINHA IS THE FOLLOWING:

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME POSTING AN ARROGANT AND CONDESCENDING RESPONSE TO MY KITE FORUM POST AND WORK WITH YOUR COMPANY TO PUT OUT A CAREFULLY RESEARCHED AND THOUGHTFULLY TESTED SAFETY VIDEO WHICH COVERS ALL ASPECTS OF EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTION, AS WELL AS SERIOUS RIDER SAFETY ISSUES.

A better leash with a QR at the point of connection to my harness would have served me better - AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING. I did not count on my Mystic harness safety release for the handle pass leash to be this unaccessible during the caos of my kitemare.

Thanks for the great post, Kent.

WyndRyder...a response to your post. I am hooked into the handle pass leash on the Mystic Warrior Harness. My red loop safety is on my spreader bar, in front, easily accessible when the harness is intact and frontwards. Spin the harness around, as my kite did attached to the handlepass leash in back and the red loop safety is now IN BACK OF YOU, not that accessible. I have it set up correctly. Not sure what you are trying to say. Unlike, you, rarely if ever do I get pulled "backwards" as you say you do, as I come out of the hook right away and hold on to the leash and porpoise across the water until the kite comes down. It's controlled caos but you are upright, facing your problem and not backwards spinning out of control, not knowing which way is up. My gear is hooked up correctly. Watch Bill Parker when he comes down after a botched handle pass or something big, unhooked. If he can't reel the kite back in right away and get's dragged, it's usually in a controlled manner, on his stomach riding it out until the kite comes down. Again, I have it hooked up correctly.

This is f'ing gay. You must be kidding me Amber.?. Good lord. I won't get into it with you but thanks for the sarcasm. Posts like this are the reason I never get on here with all you experts and Holier than thou types.

Toby...thanks for the support. I appreciate it. I am done with this bullshit. My intent was to make a simple post to say thanks to the guys who were there to help AFTER AN UNFORESEEN EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTION, followed up by a scary ride. Not to have all the experts appear out of the wood work, with their superior safety practices and unparalleled knowledge and insight. I appreciate sincerity, not sarcasm and condescending words disguised as an attempt to "educate" me. See you soon Toby.

Hey Gris...thanks mate. I didn't get spun around. The HARNESS spun around on my body, as it was attached to the handle pass leash system of my Mystic harness. I haven't had this happen before. I have had it spun sideways, of course, but never totally spun around on my body. I like to ride with it slightly looser so that that when I ride blind, it rotates a little on my waist and moves a little, not sticking in place. I had a wetsuit top on the day of my kitemare. And tight. The force of being pulled that hard by the leash, spun the harness around backwards and took the neoprene top with it, twisting it like you would ring out a paper towel. Like I said, it never usually happens. This being said, as I have replied a few times here, I was facing forward the entire way, facing the kite, alternating between trying to pull on the leash hard at times to slam the kite into the leading edge hoping to pop it, reaching feverishly behind me trying to find that little red safety loop to disconnect the leash from the handle pass system and holding on to the leash in an attempt to climb up the leash and activate that QR when the kite hit the water and put some slack in the leash. Problem is, the kite did NOT stay in the water even remotely long enough for me to put ANY slack in the leash at any time during my "ride". Not until I hit the land and the wingtip got deflected but that one lone tree did it slack enough for me to break it away. I think harness setups are all preference. Some guys like the seat, some the waist and some the Dakine shorts. I just think the Mystic fits my body well and is comfortable.

Thanks to everyone who helped you Bill, BIG KUDOS!!!!!!!!!!!


(shoot me down , but)
I think Kent was not trying to be critical Bill , but trying to educate ( maybe not eloquently enough for his journalism major ). He rep's cabby for all US and I've worked with him for years.
Should we just start a separate safety thread?

Raul...thanks. I appreciate your input about the leash(es). And you are right - and I know - that the Cab leashes with the QR red disc right at the harness connection point are awesome and the way to go. I have three, but haven't used them in a while since I got my Mystic harness - I "hard-wired" my SS leash to my Mystic handle pass leash system, assuming that the red loop safety deal would serve as my QR point at the harness. I believe it does work well. I even moved it to the spreader bar so it's more accessible. That, however, seemed to be the problem here - it's location when the harness got spun around backwards on me. And maybe I came on strong to Kent's post. While I respect your knowledge and experience, know you and ride with you - or at least at the same spots - I found it pretty offensive given my condition and the situation to be reprimanded to some degree and in such a condescending and arrogant manner by someone I don't know and who certainly does NOT know me, my riding practices, etc, etc. Again, the intention of my post was NOT have my situation analyzed, criticized and evaluated by every one and their mother, but to simply say a quick thanks to the guys who were there to help. But I would welcome a conversation with Kent at any time.

I apologize, didn't notice that Bill was actually spun around INSIDE his harness, that is just nuts!!! I stand corrected. So my apologies go out to Gris. Sorry bro, when you are witnessing a kitemare, it all happens so fast and everyone is so panicked that sometimes you don't see it all straight. See you all at the beach!

Whoa there cowboy! I sure as hell wouldn't want to take you on in a typing race. Five posts in a row would have to be a record. Seriously, I apologize for posting in this thread as it would have been better in a new one. In truth, I do have more years kiting under my belt than all but 3-4 riders in this state (Raul being one of them). My job has taken me to ride in nearly every location in this country and many others. You learn different things riding with different people and some lessons have come to me and my friends the hard way (Raul, remember riding the first inflatable at V-Key with me when you went head first through the garbage cans in 1999 or so?). Two of my good friends and co-workers lost their lives in this sport. Like you they were experienced and both would be considered by anyone as accomplished watermen.

While working in the kite industry is only a small part of my job, I take all aspects of it seriously (have to pay the mortgage). Helping to develop better safety equipment, preserving access, and educating riders are all very important issues to me.

Attending last weeks marine advisory board meeting in Pompano (where I haven't ridden in 6-7 years) to help preserve beach access, participating in a pod cast discussing issues pertaining to industry standardization and certification, and my yearly participation in Cabrinha prototype testing where we bench test against all top competitors safety equipment to insure improvements are made, all help me to learn from others and get the message out.

Having basic information that would help other riders stay out of trouble and not providing it to them is in my eyes unethical. My choice of threads was however poor (although after re-reading my post, I still wonder why it caused so much anxiety, hmmm). While I clearly don't know it all and I learn from others on a daily basis, basic information like I passed along in my post can and will be used by some and will hopefully result in pain avoidance.

You are right. I don't know you. After speaking with Raul and hearing nothing but admiration from him, you are probably just as I expected you would be before I wrote my first post. I assumed you to be an accomplished athlete and a knowledgeable kiter that takes this sport seriously. I assumed that you, like me, don't know everything and that any tidbit coming your way that might result in avoiding a future accident for you or your friends would be appreciated.

Once again Bill, I hope that you will accept my sincere apology. Out of respect for you and the fact that I apparently already put my foot in my mouth, I won't comment further on this incident. I wish you a very speedy recovery. Please send me a PM if I can help with anything to sort your gear out once you're good to go again. It sounds like you have a very tight knit group of good friends and riders up there keeping a good eye on each other. Good luck.

PS. Maybe Rick can dig up the info from my incident at Crandon about 4-5 years ago. It was very similar to yours and lasted even longer from what I remember. I was wearing a suicide leash with no release that was hooked to my chicken loop. The net affect was a 50 yard hike out of the woods. The crash included about 15 feet of vert spanning the first 15 to 20 yards before the first wooded scrub impact. After thinking that I was likely impaled and that I surely broke my neck, I couldn’t figure out how to get my leash detached from the chicken loop fast enough. I was rewarded with another free flight of about the same distance… I was lucky and only ended up with a bruised chest where my chin impacted, a tweaked back, and stickers in my feet from the hike out. Post away Rick.

Kind regards,

Kent Marinkovic

sorry... i'm long winded.
 

thank you moderators for opening this thread back up. After having a post based only on me and then not being able to reply was quite frustrating.

Bill, I have already sent you a PM advising you that yes, my "world class athlete" quote was obnoxious, but the rest of that post was actually sincere. I apologize if the whole thing came across that way. I am one of the slowest progressers the sport has probably seen in a while and part of that is lack of time on the water and part of that is having witnessed and heard about some nasty stuff over the past 3 years so I'm super paranoid. Most people know me and know that i've had a kite in the air for a long time and its actually really embarrassing to have to go out there and struggle so much. I get anxious every time. And that is why when people like Kent, (who i briefly met thru last year's race) give free instruction, I think its awesome and that's why i applauded him. That really had nothing to do with your accident and I agree, we should have been discussing that stuff under another thread because you pointed out in the beginning that you just wanted to acknowledge the good guys who helped you out.

If i had been in your situation, people would probably be discussing the first death due to kiting in the area, as I am not the strong, experienced kiter that you are and there is absolutely no sarcasm in this statement. There's no way that I could have reacted rationally as well as the fact that I'm not a big strong guy. As a race organizer, photographer and local kiter, i certainly don't want to be on anyone's "bitch" list. I try really hard to talk to different people and want to get along with everyone. I need to keep some of my thoughts to myself more and I apologize for telling everyone via a post that i thought you were acting cocky about the whole thing. Please know that I have no grudges against anyone on here including you (and rigger!;) ) so I hope you understand and accept my apology. I NEVER want to see anyone get hurt. I wish you a quick recovery and will see you at the beach soon. maybe when you are better we can do some photos of your post-accident session. should be fun...

My last post pertaining to my accident...

Thanks for all the phone calls, texts, PMs and emails of concern. If I haven't responded to you, please don't be offended. I was overwhelmed by the support of the local kite community. Thanks for everyone's concern. I am fine and will be on the water again sooner than you think - but far sooner than the doc's would like! The bells in my noggin have stopped ringing but the nerdy little man on my shoulder is yelling at me to wear a pumpkin protector. No need to respond to this, please. See you all soon.