Rickenbacker BANNED
 

This just in:

"Just got the very bad news from top management of the Rickenbacher Causeway... They are banning kitesurfing at the causeway. The manager went to the CSWY the last 2 windy days and was horrified by riders actions. He said that he has had enough and didn't appreciate the lack of respect that he was shown."


Thanks guys, thanks a great deal for shutting down a unique spot in much of SE Florida. When do the idiots among us figure out, that we need to use common sense and courtesy if we are going to be able to kite. Given the amount of effort and VERY little it would take to keep access open here, I am disgusted with the indifference and stupidity of some riders.

Sorry to hear that Rick. Thing is, idiots will always be idiots. Selfish, self absorbed people will always be that way as well. No amount of communication can change a self absorbed person's view of the world. They tend to always believe it revolves around their "rights". It's unfortunate, but I am convinced of this.

I only wish that somehow the self absorbed people that are willing to risk spots may be subject to pay some type of personal penalty or suffer a personal ban, as opposed to having all of us penalized or banned for their risk taking (in this case all riders at that spot). It only seems reasonable. To me, it's beyond selfish to put others' freedoms at risk. If someone wants to risk their own life, freedoms, limbs - that's always been fine by me. Go for it, pay the possible price. But knowingly risking others' rights, limbs, freedoms is truly lame.
Again, sincerely sorry to hear this news.

CONFIRMED: I spoke to Jimmy Martincak from Miami Dade County and he indicated that he is moving forward with the county attorneys to institute the ban officially. We have had many chances at this location and the behavior of many individuals, including those that make their livelihood locally from instruction, was absolutely disgusting over the last two to three weeks at Hobie Beach.

There are only two rules at Hobie and neither were followed:
1/ No riding inside the buoys except during ingress and egress
2/ No teaching

I only wish the Causeway Authority would have bared their teeth and slapped the instructors with a massive fine for operating a business on the right-of-way without a permit or concession. At the end of the day, this is what ultimately did us in. With kitesurfing, it's monkey see monkey do; when instructors break the rules, riders follow the leader (even if they are an idiot) and break the rules as well.

May the instructors breakout in a lifetime case of chickenPOX!!!!!!!!!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

The manager went on to say that he knows that it's just a few bad apples, but that the hassle just isn't worth it. Everyone get's all bent out when someone gets called out ont the forum for teaching there or riding too close, etc.. If you dig up old threads with all of the admonishment of these guys and this behavior, you will see that it's still the same guys.

I'm sure the Rick, Todd, Ovideo, and myself will be able to schedule a meeting with causeway management, etc... but in the end it really doesn't matter because you can't fix stupid and because I know that no one else helps to enforce basic agreed upon guidelines for the venue. All that Jimmy asked at the last meeting was that we try to self police. It was a tall order because we all continually tollerate the behavior.

Think back to Sunday and visualize the guys you saw teaching and riding on the inside. These are the guys 100% responsible for the closure. If there is any doubt, call the causeway director and ask him. Also ask him who the idiot was that decided to argue with the authorities when he was asked to stop teaching and/or leave... The straw the broke the camels back...

Here is something from 2008 on the same subject... same guys, same beach, same problem... can't say we didn't know about it...

Sorry to hear this, I wonder if any of the culprits responsible for the ban have anything to say about this , or are they just going to move on to another spot with the same attitude.

you all know my husband enrique and you know he is an instructor, we have been trying to make rules for years trying to keep kiteboarding going on in naples but the same thing happened just a while ago to us some moron was teaching in marco island and decided it would be ok to get mouthy with the beach patrol and guess what no more teaching in marco which really hurt our business but at the end of it the guy does not give a dame so your right there are some complete morons and i just dont understand these guys who think they can kite or teach any where they want but my word for these people is ignorant

kelly

in fairness it is more than just a single person, it's just that fighting with authorities and upsetting businesses on the causeway by sneaking in to poach the venue really brings our group into a poor light.

there were about 50 kites on the water Sunday. 10-12 were riding in way too close and 1 repeat offender (same guy that has had multiple spats with the authorities) was teaching on the causeway. interestingly enough, he was teaching on a 12 meter kite when i was over powered on my 10 from time to time.

on a positive note, most of the other past offenders were out teaching on boats, etc. big props to these guys for stepping up to the plate to reduce pressure on spots that are being closely watched.

i'm not sure what the weekend will bring, but for darn sure now is the time to let the idiots know that we will not allow them to get our venues banned! let them know!

The list of easily accessible spots in Miami just became shorter. It was way too short already. Many local riders know the guys continually contributing to this problem here and elsewhere. Let's keep going hands off, what do you say, not bring any effective pressure to bear on these people.

Maybe we should start a website for knitting, hard to get banned from knitting right? That way, while we watch and in some cases help to piss away our privilege to ride through indifference we'll still have an "action" sport worthy of our efforts and concern for kiting.

Are you ok with more of this? If not, start letting these guys know, the ones that ride inside out of bounds areas, flip off authorities and generally paint kiters as irresponsible sociopathic idiots, that this sort of behavior needs to end now. Go hands off as in the past, there may well be more of the same.

Umm. We could start by naming this loser. Or did I miss that?
Several times over the years names have been withheld. Why?

Too bad the cops don't just video tape people repeatedly riding in the SZ at that spot and then fine them 200 bucks each time. They could make some serious money and maybe the spot could stay open.

b/c there was no enforceable law on the books for the fine, it would have been thrown out in court.

now there is.

some poor kiter from outta town will now think it's a perfectly good day to kite there and get slapped with a $200 ticket even if he was courteously following all the previous rules.

I do not understand the redaction of the transgressors there either.

Hopefully they don't show up on MB or MH , but I'm sure they'll find a way
to spoil those venues too.

I remember many many (one-way) kitesurfing adventures across the RB bridge there on the Wip's. One time I even kitesurfed from the other side to hobie when John Kerry was windsurfing there. one of the best times me and Kent were out there on 7m foils on a SSW. this really really blows....I mean sucks.....

very sad.
we had our opportunities to save it. Many times !
it just sliped out our hands for a same handfull of idiots.
We know it , we said it , we have seen it , we have talked about it , we even know the bad seeds, but we all let it happened. Now we cry.

Self policing has a very limited chance of success. Let's face it , in a community there will be always individuals not abiding by the rules, with no Integrity, no righteousness and no respect for self or others and at the end a threat for all of us.
It is because of those few individuals that rules are created and unfortunately enforcement is needed.

Well In the end it confirms me one thing : We are doing the right thing in Crandon and Matheson : Rules and beach marshalls may be a pain at first , but eventually that is how we protect us all against those idiots.

See it that way : to avoid getting all banned , we ban the bad guys in first lieu...
that's our job at a concession: not always easy for the poor guy in charge , but much more efficient in the long term for the preservation and the safety of the access to all conscious-minded riders.
In Miami at least we have no choice , with so limited riding spots, and so many potential liability issues , we are on close watch form the authorities.
Hobie is the exact example.

Not trying to make a profit from the situation, but we had skipped Hobie a long time ago ( 10 years now !) with our boats and shuttle to the flats all our students .
We have 2 brand new boats with Captains, now and available for shuttle on West wind.
Or for extended downwinders up to 15milles. Time to ride away from the beach and push the distances a bit.
check us out on www.miamikiteboarding.com and get on the Taxiboat line.

Same Pricks every time... I think Name and shame would be a good idea so everyone knows who it was and can stay well away from them next time. How about someone puts together some evidence and sends all this to the IKO and PASA and have there Qualification Removed, once that is removed then you can hit the forums hard about the illegal business that they run. Just my 2cents



Also If you guys need a place to ride in West Winds come and check out Bimini Kiteboarding, we have Flats, Waves, Bump and Grind, many many locations to ride from in crystal clear blue water. A little warmer than Miami too.

Lots of specials running at the moment including cheap flights.

info@biminikiteboarding.com

www.biminikiteboarding.com

as much as we might like to we cannot use names. the identity of this long term instructor's common knowledge here. other than perhaps 1 large kiter I can't give you the identity of the other 15 guys running on the inside. They know who they are as will kiters who give a damn to help try to avoid this next time

Fair enough for not naming people but if those where my beaches....

At the end of the day losing a beach to Kite from is one thing but what about the potential students that these guys are teaching? What if they get hurt? It not only buts a bad rep onto those that are doing the teaching but it puts a bad rep on the sport in general. If these guys are acting like such idiots then you all need to come together and report them to the necessary people and have it stopped. If they are a legitimate business then contact the IRS and see if they pay taxes? Find out if they are insured? If not report them to the police for Endangering people. There has to be something you guys can do.

It seems that this kind of thing has been going on for some time and it wont stop unless you as a community put a stop to it.

I am very sorry to hear about this ban. but "call the IRS"?????

Protect ?
 

@ Bimini Kiteboarding

How would you feel after setting up shop at your location that in a time frame of 6 months you loose your concession, and thus your income. Great spot waves and water, but someone ****ed it up, your next riders meeting will be where ...

You could be forewarned !

BSO post pictures of those in jail with mugshots.
http://sheriff.org/about_bso/admin/m...pk=149&sType=N
We would like to know who ruins it for us ! Just because the moderator "feels" it is not right, we do not know these people. Instead having an open database, we now must rely on "worth of mouth". And that worked as it showed. Let the internet finally work in OUR favor !

I want to know which clown I am riding with, and especially if he does not have the same interest in the spot I frequent.
Due to this lack of pro activeness, we are loosing spots instead of winning the authorities over and getting approval for more spots to ride.

Soccer bans players who do not behave. Many sports have public interest and hence have public "hangings". NFL surely patrols there players on and off the field. Baseball, basketball, golf etc all work to set role models and do not tolerate those who do not fit in. This sport is too big and has so many riders that we need more access. So many business have been created in the last 10 years in South Florida that rely on kiteboarding as primary income. Any further loss of access will certainly hurt their bottom line.

Maybe it is time to protect our limited resources and see a brighter and bigger future. This IS the time to find out so we know !

!

I don't get it either. Apparently the internet has no purpose in terms of self policing. After all, "they know who they are, and so do those who give a damn".

Imo, anyone truly interested in protecting spots that are in obvious danger of being lost needs to make efforts to work with authorities to set up some basic rules and work to give the authorities the ability to impose fines on individuals, as opposed to ban an entire group. I can't see the cops passing up the ability to make a few hundred a day myself (or have a non-problem if people don't break the simple rules). In this case, it's clear that no one was suppose to be in the swim zones. Why not just let authorities profit from the few who break this simple rule? It's probably harder than this, but maybe not.

I personally am not a fan of cops, rules or regs. BUT, if it starts to become clear that a spot might be lost in St. Pete, I would be the first stating to the authorities that most riders pose no threat to others in the area and that maybe we could reach a compromise to a ban. I did that once years ago, and if necessary, will do it again.
In the case of local beaches with "beach cops", discussing very basic rules with associated fines seem like the best approach. Primarily because it pays for authorities' time to deal with yahoos and gives them incentive (money) to deal with individuals as opposed to banning groups.

Again, not a huge fan of talking with authorities, but if a few well spoken and responsible riders do this proactively, then it seems better than having the least well spoken and least responsible rider cussing at an authority person after they rode like a jerk. At this point in time, I see no problems in St. Pete and therefore have begun no discussions.
As I said though, about 7 years ago we got banned from North Beach (Ft. DeSoto) and it seemed like East Beach was next. I talked to the park ranger and and it turned out well. Primarily because he was level headed.
I think when presenting such an argument, it is important to persuade the "guy in charge" that indeed a vast majority of kiters pose no threat and policing of them would be relatively easy. If you can't do that, your argument is doomed.

If you attempt to use the authorities to enforce your rules and the idiot is disrespectful to the authority while he is doing the enforcement, you see what you get. You get banned all together. It's easier for them to ban you than put up with crap from the bad apples. If the local riders approach him and he gives them crap your not banned.

Is it not also possible to simply have that idiot fined and then asked to leave? If a true arrangement involving legal regulations/fines was made between the authorities, that is about all they could do legally is fine the individual breaking a law. The last time I saw a person break a law driving, the cops didn't take away my license or shut down that road forever.

In addition, the last couple times I have approached local instructors jumping kids or whatever (with 3 to 4 other kiters by my side making the same plea to stop), we got blown off and no change in behavior occurred. Why? Some people don't respond to rational pleas, they only respond to punishment. I would argue that not having legal authority over obviously improper actions sets us all up to fail b/c of the actions of a few. Some riders will just keep "doing what they do" until a kid is landed on or similar.

I understand the "approach authorities and lose all rights" arguments, though. When I approached the Ft. DeSoto authorities after NB was banned, most local riders told me I was making a huge mistake and many were pissed (there were about 15 of us back then). I did it anyway. Why? Well, we were a week away from being banned altogether. Not much to lose, imo.

Again, if it looks likely that a ban is likely to occur locally, I know I will be in there talking to someone. Primarily because I feel I speak (and listen) better than most and am willing to roll the dice on my abilities, rather than leave it up to someone else or fate. I would also hope that guys like you, Steve S, Steve-O, Scott W, Danny and many others could agree to get together for one day, remain calm, and present ourselves well.

I hear your concerns, Craig. Trust me, I do. I have heard the argument a hundred times. In addition, I am a guy that has been wronged by authorities, so I am not a big fan. However, sometimes the lesser of two evils in some situations must be made.
The way I see it if a spot is in serious jeopardy, sitting back is sending the authorities the "white flag/surrender" signal. By doing nothing, this almost insures they will choose the easy road, which is banning us all. That is the easy road for them, btw. Talking and showing that a group is willing to stand up makes it apparent that the easy road does not and will not exist for them.

I hope it's obvious my discussion is in regards to fending off an obvious ban, not willy nilly begging for rules from cops. :)
To be honest though, I do wish the beach had a few very simple and enforceable laws. Not because I love laws, but because these laws could greatly limit the odds of a bather getting really hurt by a kiter riding less than 30 feet from shore. When this incident does occur, it will increase the odds of the authorities having a knee jerk reaction and banning us all.
If a no-ride-close-to-shore law already existed, I suspect the kiter that hit the bather would be totally screwed (unfortunate) and the rest of us might be okay.

-Scott

I don't know why the very minority few bad apples in Miami are soo agro towards the lone authority figures that are in charge of maintaining access to our best spots

There is a good chance this site wouldn't have been banned if there had been some fines issued along with the efforts in the kiting community to keep Hobie open. You can only go so far with self enforcement in a large transient metropolitan area like Miami. We can only ask and reason, the authorities can fine and arrest. No one wants to see another kiter deal with a several hundred dollar fine or the consequences of arrest. Still, if they refuse to see reason and act responsibly placing the privileges of the kiting community at risk, as has been the case, it would be worth trying. To my knowledge no such fines or even arrests have happened at Hobie unlike some other areas like Crandon Park. We asked for enforcement but were not given encouraging responses. Cutbacks in public funding is perhaps one reason, still I think a few cases might have helped keep this place open.

With our legal system, unless folks want to pony up several thousand dollars, or more, into a defense fun, we need to go without names. That still leaves a lot of things that can be effectively done. Just the way it is.

Clearly Hobie wasn't closed this weekend. There were quite a few kites out Sunday so the process must be on going.

I agree with you Rick, it's kind of like banning all driving because of a few drunk drivers. I'd have hoped that the cswy people would have been more proactive and taken advantage of some of the suggestions that were made by all at the last meeting.

Kick out and fine the illegals and post a slow speed sign for inside the buoys. I'd also suggest that kiters riding that fast near swimmers and the beach could be considered to be operating at an unsafe speed and could be guilty of endangerment.

We need help and the J-offs will leave.