Injury at Skyway
 

Just wanted to report on an injury at skyway tonight-

Friend of mine from work who came down to watch was on the scene and had this to report-please add or clarify if you have more info-

Newer rider (unknown) launched and proceeded to kite north of the beach towards the rocks.

Jumped and/or lost control and landed / dragged into rocks.

The kite went across the road and landed in the median. Kite was recovered -no reports of traffic accidents as a result.

Rider sustained multiple injuries to head, pelvis and shoulder. Ambulance was called and was taken to bayfront.

My friend gave his board to Randy and Randy was going to try to work out getting the riders truck somewhere to store.

Rider did not appear to be from the area. The rider gave us a phone number to call of a friend- we called and left a detailed phone message.

Please add any additional details and/or comments.

Geez...Good thing that kite didn't cause any accidents. There'd be more than one person heading to bayfront tonight. I heard one of the guys at the skyway saying this "new kiter" asked Randy about taking lessons but Randy was busy and couldn't accomodate him. Sounded as though the kiter went out to teach himself? This is just what I heard, so take it for what it's worth.

Dan, was this the grey and red Monkey kitethat we saw by the rocks? That one looked like it only crossed the frontage road before it was brought under control. There were at least four very green riders mixing it up with everyone else, all with larger kites up. I had to leave early, but the situation looked like a ticking time bomb ready to go off when the East wind switched on. I did my riding way out by the tip of the sand bar. I hope who ever it was is OK and makes a full recovery. I also hope a few of the other newcomers got a good look and learn a lesson. I'd hate to lose our access over stupidity

Bob

I saw the rider (I’d never seen his face before) being dragged out of control towards the rocks near by where trees are. His Monkey kite eventually crashed against the fence and threatened to relaunch several times, the rider seemed to be badly injured at that time because he was not making any efforts to regain control of the situation. I was standing at the beach probably 60 feet away from the incident and the wind was approximately 17 knots. Luckily, the driver of a mini van stopped and grabbed the kite, I belive at that time the kite was already in the middle of the side road. I couldn’t imagine the kite relunching at that moment it would have been catastrophic and most probably would it have end up in the middle of 275. According to Randy the rider inquired about lessons earlier and also after the incident he was shaking and couldn’t move one of his arms also appeared to have a severely lower back wound. Three ambulances and a police car showed up at the scene minutes later. Not a pretty sight at all.

Bob. Quicker than I thought.

The sun was definitely still up, lets not spread disinformation if you weren't there

I hope he is not hurt too bad, sounds like otherwise. I too feel bad, but honestly, am somewhat pissed. I was just telling Bob the prior night this was coming real soon.

Listen guys, this is just my opinion, but one that I feel strongly about and hope to convince others to see my way. I know Steve and some others already agree, but I wish more would act out against "cowboys" trying to learn on their own.
If you see a guy who is obviously clueless (I don't know if he was, 'cuz I wasn't there) trying to do stuff on his own, don't hesitate to point him out and tell others and then as a group say "hell no, you ain't riding" or "hey, get the hell off the water" in a firm but informative/caring way.

It's one thing to be nice to new riders who are struggling with the basics yet go out aways from shore, do the right thing, and aren't totally clueless.
It's a whole other ball of wax to tolerate a "time bomb" and allow him to jeopardize his own health and our riding spots.

I wasn't there, so I have no clue what this guy looked like or if it was obvious.
I noticed there were a couple FHP officers just hanging around Sunday night watching.
That spot (SW) is one that could be closed the fastest, imo, because it is property of D.O.T. and we had a kite about 4 years ago go in the road. We were told point blank that the next kite in the road would be the last.

What kind of board was he on? I know a guy that showed up earlier with a particular brand board asking about lessons and had already purchased a board and seemed very gung-ho.

Sad story and hope he is not hurt too bad. I really do believe this is one area (totally clueless guys showing up.. if this was the case) where we need to agree to ban together and say "no ride today, buddy" regardless of the naive guy's "rights".

Does this sound reasonable? I personally have zero problem approaching a clueless guy and politely telling him no way. If he then attempts further kiting, it simply won't happen if I am there because of the obvious and inherent threats.

Yep, sounds like you are spot on Raul.

It sounds like this kiter launched and got out in next to nothing winds, was messing around in the light stuff and as soon as the wind filled in (moderately quickly, as always on these easts) he had a pretty big kite up and got whacked pretty quickly. Doesn't sound like this could have been stopped.

I think part of the issue is you can buy a kite and get a lesson right at the skyway. This is not a good beginner spot! If you are under close supervision by a good instructor maybe, but to get one or two hours and a new 15M kite and expect to ride there safely is insane!!! There is some implied permission that it is a learning spot if you got a lesson there. If you can't confidently water start and go directly upwind you have no business riding at any skyway launch unless you are under direct supervision.

I admire Randy and Cindy for working hard to create a successful business. I see them both as friends, since they don't post here I'm going to try to talk to them about encouraging their customer to practice and develop their skills at other sites. I can't imagine what kiting would be like if we get banned at the skyway, but unless we change the way it is being used it will be and soon.

Oh, and having a certificate doesn't make you a good instructor and teaching is about more than making money. Having the knowledge and skills are much more important, and more so to genuinely care about the student and creating a positive outcome.

Update on injuries
 

Here is an update from my friend who spoke to the family.

The rider is from Venice Florida and had a gash on his head, sprained neck, broken vertebrae, broken tailbone and several lacerations.

He stayed overnight and will be released today.

Hope that he is more careful next time.

This does pose a serious risk of beach closure and yesterday at skyway was pretty messy.

I am not sure the best answer but we as a group may need to consider something soon.

Sad to hear about this. It's disappointing that someone didn't stop this guy when they saw the deal going down. Asking for lessons, trying to ride right before the wind picks up at 7, etc. Who launched him?

So much talk about self regulating our sport and obviously it is not working.

If you try to speak up instead of just giving a thumbs up you are branded as a drama queen, chastised, etc. We are getting 25 new riders per week and if we are going to be too polite to stop someone (obviously unqualified) from riding we are going to have a few more serious injuries this year, maybe a fatality.

Sad, I hope he recovers and gets trained correctly.

Shocker.
 

Almost got jumped on the other night about half a dozen times, also watched guys jumping about 10-20 feet from the shore. Mainly saw waroo's doin it, but as everyone has one, they're pretty much hard to single out. Was pretty suprised no one got injured sunday night.

The stoke is good and its cool to encourage people to progress and jump but i'd try and refrain from cheering it on when it only takes a gust to move their landing zone to dry land.

Sorry to hear about this guy hope he his recovery goes well and he's learned his lesson.
-TritonKiteboarding.com

Yeah... since Randy sort of claimed the spot for his kiteboarding school, and since 90% of the beginners out there are his students, I would have thought this is something he want to do (to protect his own business).

There is really not a single day that he is not out there teaching... usually 3 people per day, every day as long as it's blowing at least 6mph.

Totally agree... I showed up to ride on Sat night and saw the same thing. People jumping right on shore. It was complete chaos .... ended up riding alone after everyone packed up. It completely blew my mind as to how irresponsible many riders have become in just the last year. Can't say I didn't see it coming though. Either these people will learn a hard lesson and it will stop, or it won't stop and we'll all learn a hard lesson later.

That's funny. You'll call us out for teaching without a certification huh. I was teaching my friend David before he left for vacation, I'm not certified.

I believe IKO and PASA are just some commercial brands that sell certifications, see if I care that some of the instructors have some piece of paper that says they can teach how to kite.

Sounds to me like NOBODY was teaching this guy, so that's his own fault, nobody elses.

Most of us are grown ups and as so we should be able to accept the responsibility of ourselves, not others.

Take the "holier then thou" attitude and get the hell out of here with it.

And about the people whom jump too close to shore, there are quite a few that do that. They are usually the riders whom have been riding for a while.

I almost had Danny slam into me and Randy's girlfriend on the beach one time a few months back. Jumping right next to shore, not to mention jumping in others ways consistently. He's not the only one, I know there are a bunch more.

There's no way they're going to ban riding anywhere anyways. They can ban it off a beach, but you can always launch from the water. There's no way the police are going to waste their time trying to ticket you for it, and that's all they could do.

I'd hope they would ban it from a few places, that way I'd have a riding spot all to myself. You think a sign that says "no kitesurfing," would stop all of us? I know it wouldn't stop me, I'll take my chances. I figure if I can get away with it a bunch then get one ticket it'd be worth it.

no offense, but those who are actual "grown-ups" will understand that we do have to take responsibility for others not just ourselves if we want to continue to have some of the best riding locations around...
anybody can take responsibility for themselves, thats easy... but more respect to those who are man enough to take responsibility for others...

(my 2 cents)

I agree with Bob. A certification means close to NOTHING. It is easy for a "certified" instructor to get lost in trying to pound out lessons to make the most money possible or to lose genuine concern for the student due to the number of students that they teach. I am not saying that this happens locally but rather that I feel that a good quality instructor is more than a piece of paper saying that you are "certified" to teach.

"What kind of board was he on? I know a guy that showed up earlier with a particular brand board asking about lessons and had already purchased a board and seemed very gung-ho."

Don't worry Scott, it wasn't one of my Skywalkers this guy was riding...:)

Creating drama on a forum because you are bored is something completely different than showing genuine concern for someone's safety Tom. Stop complaining about it on the forum as has been done on countless threads (not pointing the finger just at you, but at myself and others as well) and actually PROVE that you are CONCERNED by showing that concern at the beach. You are right, someone should have stopped this guy if he was exhibiting kook-like behavior...like asking about lessons and when he couldn't get them just launching.

I agree a "gatekeeper" would be a good idea but that person also needs to have close contact with others in the area who have given lessons and "approved" other newbie riders or it will cause friction on our beaches.

Bottom line is that you can't control this type of thing, it WILL happen sooner or later just like car accidents do. It is a fact of life and I don't see any sense in bringing attention to ourselves until the authorities ASK us to. I thought the sign with rules idea a while back was a great idea to post at each launch site but these ideas never seem to develop into reality. I think we as a community have a good track record in our area as far as accidents go, keep it what it is...as soon as you change it you will be wishing it was like it was "last season".

Yeah I almost got knocked out cold by one of cindy/randys friends last night at the skyway. Guy was only 20 yards upwind of me (we were the only two kiters on the water b/c sun was going down), and decided to boost. Well he came directly at me like a damn ninja with his board pointed at me and, luckily, landed about 7ft upwind of me. It amazed me that he was surprised how far downwind he ended up after the jump. Tried explaining to me that he picks up speed so he can jump and continue in the same direction. I'm thinking...."WTF??!! It doesn't work like that!" So I tell him you're always going to go downwind during a jump. Doubt he listened. I also noticed quite a few other newbies out there. My take on the situation is this.....

You guys won't see me down there again....unless it's a night ride. My first time riding skyway really showed me what a f-kin zoo that place is and makes me appreciate my own riding spots. I like the riding area very much but there's way too many people there. I see the inherent dangers that exist, but feel very comfortable navigating through them. I don't feel comfortable with so many noobies out there, considering the fact that I almost got sent to the hospital and another noob DID get sent. How is it that they received instruction and don't know wtf they are doing??? I also didn't care too much for the vibe out there. A few nice people for sure. More than a few with the "my kite's bigger than yours ego" that I don't care for. Reminds me of surfing. So now a big problem exists. Lessons are being taught at the skyway and the new students are learning to ride there after the lessons. New riders will make mistakes. SW isn't a spot to make mistakes. Inevitably, it's going to get shut down b/c of riders like these and EB is gonna get all the spillover. So what's next? East beach is where those lessons/mistakes should be taking place. It's a much more foregiving area. WSW goes out of there way to teach in very safe environments and tells there students NOT TO RIDE THE SKYWAY. I wish the rest would do the same. I consider any new rider at the skyway a "cowboy." It took me since november to build my skills enough that I would consider venturing out there for the first time. Well, not again. I really appreciate my riding areas now and the people who I ride with regularly. my .02knots

-sean

Don't take it the wrong way toby, but that guy I spoke of WAS on one of your lightwind skywalkers.....i was on the other of course. ;)

You are confusing a figure of authority with an adult.

EDIT: Not to mention that your reasoning for looking out for others is nothing but egotistical.

Not taken in a bad way Sean. ;) We all make mistakes and it sounds like the rider you are referring to was a proficient enough rider to be jumping...I was referring to the guy that got hurt...and in my opinion YOU are more than ready for riding the Skyway. To avoid out of control kooks, just ride upwind of them my friend. :)

jesus christ some of you take this a bit too personal.

chill
the
fu*k
out.

fact is there a tons of new riders.. and some of the responsibility lies on the shoulders of us seasoned riders to be on the look out and make the call to talk to them.

we all know the skyway is a shithole for learning and yesterdays accident has been brewing for a long while.. maybe seeing a guy carried out on a stretcher will smack some much needed reality into the minds of the others trying to push themselves into the sport.

maybe we should hire a quadriplegic to sit on the beach in a wheelchair with a big fat sign reading "look what kiteboarding without lessons did for me!"

Seriously tho.. this back and forth pre-school bickering is ridiculous and needs to stop. Its pathetic.

when i am on the beach, I promise to do my best to keep an eye out for those that need help. I will do all i can to stop potential accidents from happening.. its the best I can to assist with the problem.

when i am not on the beach i hope that others will make the same promise and be as professional with the folks they are trying to help as possible.

No one can do more than that except beyond banning the sport in certain areas.

Well I just spoke with Erick on the phone and he said that this guy was proficient on his water start, cruising, etc. I apologize Raul if you felt I was insinuating that you launched him. ;) I am guessing this guy had some kind of gear failure and was looking for an advanced lesson. I edited my earlier post as well my friend.

here's the thing....
 

Im new at this about 6months took lessons from my old man(kiting 7 years) and Graham Goodwin(lauderdale kitesurfing).been surfing/windsurfing 20 years, this is a whole diffrent animal. I would not kite at the SW simply because of what you have said on here, and im not stupid! But not everyone is on here. Lack of information to the new riders. This is where you live and ride and if you think someone is doing something that could get them or somone else hurt.....than f--kin say something, you dont have to be a dick about it. If an experienced rider said something to me (and wasnt a dick about it, like " hey new guy you know what your doing") i would think twice about what i was doing. This will not curb everything but you have to try! And also tell people about this forum like Chris Moore told me.....

Although just a suggestion...

I spent the day at East Beach yesterday. Hotter than hell I might add. Did do a lesson early in the morning. Only one rider out there to deal with.

I don't plan to solve the world's problems here, but I do want to say this. I don't teach at the skyway, and I don't teach even at East Beach on the weekend, or a crowded weekday. I definately make the effort to drop a boat in the water and go elsewhere to keep it safe for students and riders alike. It is not convenient, but the positives far outweigh the negative. After walking through the muck yesterday morning during my lesson, I realized how spoiled I am teaching on firm sandy bottoms up north county. I think my last lesson down in the St. Pete area may have just been completed.

I also want everyone to know that we put each student through a very informative and intense 2 hour class at the shop going over all kiting theory, dangers, protocal, weather, terms, rules of the road, and really hark on how to venture into the sport especially before and after lessons. That's 2 hours of info before they even fly a kite. This is where I see alot of problems occuring. EDUCATING STUDENTS ON WHAT TO DO BEFORE AND AFTER LESSONS. I have put together a very thorough 40 page packet and ride guide of the entire Tampa Bay area analyzing each spot. We go over the guide in detail. I also point out the hazards or riding the Skyway area, and many other areas, and that beginners should not even think about going to these places until they can stay upwind and have solid control. I do promote East Beach on less crowded days as being there best place on Easterlies and using the specific places in the Gulf on westerlies. IMO those two places are the ONLY places newbies should go to get there skills up before venturing to other spots. I could go into more detail, but you get the idea.

Finally, I am purchasing an even larger boat to handle more students and instructors for the 07/08 season. The goal is to keep it safe for everyone. 100% of our teaching will occur behind the scenes if you will and out of your way. I believe strongly in this.

I am very proud of the program I have put together at the shop, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. I took alot of heat when I signed on to teach this sport, but I think many are beginning to see the light and just how serious I am taking this responsibility.

If you support the vision of this program then support us into some very interesting times for all. It's all about keeping it safe.

Steve-O

ps. Toby....I have only taught 4-5 lessons this entire summer. 15mph or more=excellent lesson conditions....you do the math.

Agreed. I think that's the way all lessons should be done. Away from everyone. The skyway is a mess.

Toby, I don't know why you feel you need to single me out and make it personal attack every time I voice my concern about safety.

If you aren't disagreeing with me why exactly did you choose to single me out on this thread?

If you actually showed up to ride once in awhile you'd see that I usually spend more time helping beginners, recovering boards and launching and landing kites than I do riding. I've learned some hard lessons myself and am always sharing stories with beginners to educate them about the dangers of kiting.

You just can't agree with everything and expect to make a change at the same time. We definitely cannot promote safety by nodding and giving the thumbs up to everything under the sun while some newb launches himself into the black void.

[edited, i got the Steve's mixed up]

Btw, I agree instructors should be certified... but it is obvious that the training required for some certifications at the moment is not quite up to the level it should be. That IS a problem, but it's a problem of the certifying agency, not the certification itself. And of course there are some great instructors who are not certified... but that is usually because they let their certification lapse, not because they were never trained to begin with. There are still a few who are just good at teaching anything... but there is no way for a beginner to recognize that without some form of certificate.

Wow
 

Well I hope the guys is ok. Sucks he got hurt, and accidents do happen. Skyways a sketchie launch and really should not be ridden by newbies. Yeah I learned at Skyway when I first started but I didn't know any better. If I did, I would never have taken lessons with the person that gave me lessons there. Maybe if people are asking about lessons you should refer them to someone that does not teach there? No offense to anyone that teaches there, but if they do they are just trying to make money for themselvs. Start looking out for the riders that want to keep the launch open and refer them to someone that you know does not teach at Skyway. This will prevent a lot of these newbie riders from ridding there, because most guys that dont teach there tell there students it's not a good spot until you know how to ride.

I have to say after comming back from Hawaii, Kaulia Bay in Oahu make Skyway look like the best newbie Launch in the world! LOL The beach is about 20 x 20 for Kiters maybe! Then when the beach ends it just HUGE freaking Trees!!!!!! The spot to set kites on the beach has space for maybe 6 kites and that is pushing it! On top of that there is about a MILLION freaking people just hanging out on the beach! It hard to launch your kite because everyone is in the way! On Oahu this is consider the safe spot to launch! LOL Just glad to be in Florida where our beaches are big, and no reef!

Also on a another note! If you are tired of the crowds you should move up to Panama City, FL! There is about 8 of us here the kite regularly! The only good spot to learn is only accessible by boat only! I have seen a few guys who are newbies try to learn how to ride on the beach here when it's blowing 25 and the waves are 3 feet overhead! Let just say you usally see them ONCE and then usually not again! LOL If you do, they are up and riding by then!

You may want to turn on ABC. I think the soap operas are starting.

Exactly... enjoy.

For the record....Randy called the shop today. Apparently he was knee deep in the accident and has this kids kite.

We take down all information of customers that buy kites for warranty purposes....and we don't have any record of this kid buying a kite from us.

For what it is worth, anyone can get gear at any time and go try and fly. It is the self policing at the beach which is going to make the biggest impact of all.

I think we all can agree on this.

Thanks for the info... any idea of what happened? (Equipment failure or not)

Steve-O,

I agree.


We should handle this without emotion and as a business while being as proactive as possible...

I've been on these forums as long as you have, and it's always you instigating things and then bitching about it afterwords.

Just let it go... he has a personal problem with me, it's obvious, and thats fine. I just need to learn to ignore it. I got suckered into responding.

Part of why its taken me a year to feel comfortable without someone definitely looking out for me is because i was reading these posts and seeing the scares and kites in trees at the skyway, etc before i picked up the trainer kite. I did take a lesson at REAL as well as with Steve after he was certified and learned some safety stuff, but my main instructor as you all know was Toby and although we argued a lot, the majority of it was based on the fact that safety was always BOTH of our main priorities Him being worried about me and me being scared to death that something bad was going to happen ;). It wasn't about speedy progression or learning to jump right away. It was about getting to know my kite and my control of it. The IKO instructors ARE required to LEARN and DEMONSTRATE TEACHING many safety skills including self rescue, etc. If they are not implementing this into their curriculum, that is their choice. I beleive that no one should even be able to BUY a kite without previously proficiently flying a trainer kite and be able to talk about wind window, safe launching practices and body dragging. Kites are a great way for people to make money but as in this instance demonstrates that it can come back and bite you in the A$$ if that is your objective.

We've discussed this many times before. I am no great rider, but i have walked up to someone i didn't recognize at the beach, introduced myself and intiate a conversation about their kiting background. This is nonconfrontational and an effective way to judge if the person is ready for our sacred launches that we don't want to lose as well as a great way to meet some cool new people. I am ALWAYS referring people to some of the local instructors that i have seen with my own eyes with a focus on safety and that includes matt and mike, steve and steve-o, and a few others. Learning from my boyfriend didn't make me a risk to everyone on the water because we always tried to be smart about it.

I think this thread needs to end soon because we are all on the team here and all want the same ultimate goal and its just getting ugly. Safe, fun, stress-free kiting!!

So for those of us that frequently read and post on the forum... i expect that next time we're at the beach and people are either inquiring about lessons or after discussion clearly haven't been trained in the safety aspects of the sport (and this includes going by the rocks, the bridge, etc) we politely tell the person that they NEED lessons before they should ride here because people have gotten really hurt and that good lessons can provide some of the skills to save their a$$ one day too.

So... season is coming...we're all cranky cuz we haven't ridden in a while, most of us haven't even seen each other in a while. We are a team and we need to follow the same pattern CONSISTENLY when dealing with the inevitable new riders. take the 5 minutes to talk to them on the beach. It gives the chance to save you or your buddy.

Till then, I'm really looking forward to getting back on the water with all of you. I'm ALMOST going upwind (i know...slow progression) but i'm finally having fun and not having to trudge thru the muck anymore and appreciate people "keeping an eye on me" as I will for all of my co-riders as well. Whether its equipment failure or knowledge failure or just a very fast accident, we look out for each other. Period. :)