Update Siesta Kook
 

1st off - that pic of the redneck was not too far off - I kid you not!

So yesterday, b4 the wind went sideshore at 2PM, I am taking a hour walk from Point Of Rocks (way south end of Siesta Key) to the Public Beach - just as I start to hit the guard shacks I see the same damn dark blue RRD crashing up and down - this time 100 yards from the water but the kite is crashing wear sun bathers are and within the posts marking the public beach

So of course I go over and here is hillbilly dude - he has his kite leash/bar tied off to the County's post that marks the N end of the public beach and he is walking from chair to chair suggesting, to everyone within a couple hundred feet of him, that they move as he is concerned he may hit them with his kite

Well, since tehe wind is NE that means he is flying and crashing his damn kite onto the public beach in and around the sun bathers

I go up to him - he says ... not you again! I explain this is ALSO not the place to fly - he tells me to get lost - I think ... damn - no knife again ...

So on my way back past the first guard station I stopped, identified myself as a local, law abiding and sane kiter, told the guards that we try our best to self-police but there is a kook up in the corner of the beach and even though I spoke to him he will not pack up

Guards were very cool and said no problem - I thanked them and said I was sorry for any hassle - one of them drove his ATV up to the corner and I watched the kook pack up and leave

BTW - if you are down at Siesta Key Beach you can't miss the guy - straw hillbilly hat and big scruffy mustache and beard - proof positive that stupid people should not breed

I am hoping his vacation in FL will soon be over

OS

Steve-O, thanks for that.

It's true, and it's a fact. The buoys are there to mark a boundary that powered water craft are not permitted to cross. This includes sailboats of any size, power boats, jet skis, and yes, kite boarders.

Good Job OS! That is exactly how it should be done in every case.

Blasting through the swim zones should be handled in exactly the same way.

Nice OS, I think the best approach is beginning to become evident. Thanks for doing the right thing.

In terms of swim zones, I know that powered watercraft are not allowed in the swim zones. As of now, I am not for certain how we are classified.
Not too long ago I sat through a Captain's course at SeaSchool. I asked several of the law enforcement guys from Coasties to Marine Patrol to Sherriff's Deputies what the deal was with kiters. None of them knew for sure. I think we are just too new as of now to be discussed, at least where they work. As we become more prevalent out there though, and certainly if an issue arises, I have a feeling one of them will ask that very question of their boss. I think it's a real good chance that we will be classified as under (wind) power. I can't see us classified as a float toy.
My greatest concern is that they then treat us like boats/jetskis. Why spend a great deal of time and resources to write and enforce a new law for 100 guys (locally)? Why not just throw us in an existing group and treat us the same within that group?
From what I have seen and what these guys told me, one way to enforce the no swim zone for skis/boats is to not allow them in the zone - ever - as in they can't be on the beach.
The logic being a jetski or boat on the beach will, or has been, in the swim zone. That's why on weekends you see boats anchored just outside the buoys at the Undertow and you don't see jetskis on the beach, except at sites of rental. If they just treat us as a ski (with limited resources and time to invest drafting laws, I think that is a possible outcome) we could really be screwed, and fast. It may not sound "fair" and may not seem "right", but it's a possibility.

That's my concern for the beach, at the moment. It could easily affect a very large area of coastline overnight considering that we have marked swim zones for most of our beaches. Hey.... are we allowed to ride Clearwater beaches as of now? Why not?
Why is it so terribly difficult for some to extrapolate and see that this is possible along St. Pete Beach?
Knowing that making a small effort and staying outside the swim zones could terrificly lower our chances of having it happen here, but not having agreement on it, is starting to really eat at me, especially light of recent bans on the East coast.

Just to be clear there are three types of markers out there. No wake, No combustion motorized vessels and Swim Zones.

The swim zone ordinance that the officer allowed me to read clearly states that no VESSELS are permitted between the beach and the swim zone markers. Then it goes on to define a vessel, and names anything and everything you can dream of that floats. Including surfboards, rafts, wakeboards, canoes, etc. Then at the end of the list it provides a very well written set of guide lines that allows them to include and deam anything that floats to be a water vessel (even a kids raft if they wanted to).

There is no room for personal interpretation here. It is a law, it has a designated fine attached to it.

STAY OUTSIDE OF MARKED SWIM ZONES where every you find them. And stay away from people outside of our sport even if they are not in a swim zone. For the good of the sport.

Go one step further. Make it obvious to onlookers that you are avoiding the markers. A life guard sitting in a chair watching us do our thing sees you tack away from a swim zone marker shows him you respect their turf, their job, and them as people. This quickly pulls us out of the outlaw rebel classification in thier mind, and they quit waiting for you to break a rule and just enjoy the beauty of the sport.

Most of us are guilty of violating these things in the past, that is history. If we all try to change for the better from this point forward and help remind each other when someone forgets we will all be better off from the change, and our sport will be better off.


Enjoy the power of the wind.

I'm sure that Al would be the best one to put something together regarding rules of the road on the water. I completed the captain's class/exam in order to teach on an oceanographic research vessel when i was working in the keys. We, as kiters would be considered powered under sail, so if we were face to face with a boat under power (even a sailboat with a motor running) we would have right of way. as for swim area guidelines, hopefully Al can help us get that situated. He is extremely respected in his field and has a lot of knowledge to share. Lets check in with him before we go any further with designating our own "rules". HOWEVER, i think that Tom's idea of 100 ft from shore unless landing or launching seems pretty reasonable in the interim.

However, i remember last year after the college tournament, there were spectators at the beach specifically there to watch the guys ride and those same spectators were aware of the possible implications of being this close to a rider. If someone chooses to sit in the water with a camera and allow guys to jump a foot over her head with a hard board and big kite, it really is her decision and there's only so much the riders can do. ;) as for regular tour-ons (that's what we call the moron tourists in the keys), we must assume they are clueless and not get too close. just my two cents of course.

my .02, I understand what Steve S. is trying to do. I don't think that Steve thinks his 501c3 is the solution to everything.

I think that the kite-4-life org serves alot of other purposes and that we can achieve safety in other ways as well, however, this formalizes a kiting organization that has the potential to do alot of good and provides something more official.

Do we have a kiting steering committee? do we need one? No to the first, at least in a formal way, and maybe to the second.

I would say just use common sense, but sometime people lack that...

For now for everyone on here that wants to talk about being safe, including myself, should at least lead by example.

I was approached by Whitey or Steve-O last time i was at the dunedin causeway and they politely informed me of the launching rules for the west side. Its that easy, (not to mention i ride with these guys on a regular basis.)

Yeah you deal with a holes like OS did down south, but we are not kiteboarding robots so we should use the best judgement we can for now.

I hear alot of good ideas on here and there is alot of good self-regulation going on, so keep up the good work ladies and gents!

Right on Danimal!
I certainly dont think I have all the answers, they are just one route to take...I have done plenty of homework on this, and in my opinion, its the most sensible solution offered to address most of our problems. I would encourage anyone to put in their research and come up with better solutions, the fact is that most people don't want to do the difficult task of building something, especially for free. I happen to enjoy building things...;)

We do not need anyone to interpet the simple task of DO NOT GO BETWEEN THE BEACH AND THE SWIM ZONE MARKERS!

The rules of right away are printed for right of way for different types of powered vessels approaching each other. I know what they are. The reality of the matter is that we as kiteboarders are by far the most manoverable of all vessels on the water and also stand the most to loose in the case of contact, which is when the rules are looked at. So don't even think about your rights just avoid being in the vacenity of any person, solid object, or other vessel. Doesn't do any good to say you were right from the dirt nap.

We are the only ones on the water that have the ability to move at 20 kts with full 360 degree visibility not blocked by our sails or rigging. We can turn on a dime with far greater manoverability than anything else on the water, and even if your a beginner you know that if you mess up you are only going one way --downwind--. Be aware of what is with in 500 yards of you at all times.

Make it a point to have a clear safe zone 400 yards down wind of you at all times anticipate and avoid any thing that can hurt you or sue you. If you ride by this simple rule no one will ever call you out for anything.

It's time to stop the talk, and as a group start from this point forward leading by example.

If all of us started today to make an effort from this point forward to create a buffer of 200 yards off of east beach that is only used to enter and exit the riding zone, making the riding zone everything that is 200 yards off the beach, stop lofting on the beach for fun or show, we would have nothing to talk about except what a great day it was and what new moves we did or saw on the water.

Trust me if we all did this as a group all at once, the few that choose not to or do not know better, will stand out big time and it will be very easy to deal with them. We don't need more rules, laws, line cutting, or to call police on each other, the beginners will adopt what they see being done by the people they aspire to ride like. The more accomplished you are as a rider the more you are being watched by others, and the more responsible you should act, it's just that simple.

If they see the best riders staying away from the beach unless going out or returning, turning off to allow someone to leave the beach, moving their kite up to the high postion when they are up wind of an approaching rider that is downwind of them, these things will be copied.

Just an OG's opnion. Enjoy the power of the wind.

whitey... no need to CAPITALIZE
"We do not need anyone to interpet the simple task of DO NOT GO BETWEEN THE BEACH AND THE SWIM ZONE MARKERS!" Its rude.

I was simply suggesting that alan give us some information because it appeared that some people were interested in learning the "rules of the road" for the water, and he is an expert. This thread is getting less and less productive. Yes, it is easier if the more respected riders in the area such as our instructors set a good example, which i believe they do. And for the record... telling people they can't ride within 200 yards off the shore at east beach isn't the biggest problem we've got right now nor the solution IMO. Here's my new two cents... shut up and ride. ;)

Seriously... everyone commenting on this thread has good intentions for the sport or they wouldn't be wasting their time thinking about it. its the people that never read or listen to suggestions, posts, complaints, etc. that our "respected area riders" need to worry about in regards to protecting our access. People like bryan and steve-o are stepping up and dealing with the problem when it happens. People like Matt are ASKING to be approached if someone thinks there is an issue that needs to be addressed and he's more than willing to do that. These aren't the guys we should be complaining about. Its the ones that aren't willing to listen that we should be concerned about.

Somebody just needs to make a most wanted poster with the dude with the straw hat and his followers and go from there. nuff said. :)

Riding in the swim zone is the #1 thing that is going to get us in trouble at the beaches. Maybe not today, but the day that a kite goes down and tangles with a young swimmer.

I must have missed this post earlier but sounds like Matt is agreeing again to keep his crew outside the swim zone from here on out? Is that right? If so, good call Matt. Everyone else should follow by example.

Revelant podcast
 

Thought you guys might be interested... there's a podcast tonight at 9 discussing these very issues, including RickI and Neil Hutchinson

A link to the post on KF about the issues and podcast:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2345910

and a link directly to the podcast at 9PM tonight 2/21/08:

http://fubar.com/new_lounge.php?lid=50075

I am going to listen to that. I have never listened to a podcast.

It sounds like we are all saying the same thing, maybe. I do think ultimately we will have to agree upon a distance from shore.

I also think that winter time riding and spring/summer riding along the beaches are two different animals. In the winter time I don't see an issue with a bunch of us doing a DW from X to Y, the entire time in the swim zone. Why? Well, who is out in 55 degree water on a winter day in waves? Only us, surfers and windsurfers for the most part. Also, hardly anyone is on the beach. In areas where there are surfers we have kept a safe distance from what I have seen.
If an "official rule" is truly enforced, winter time DW's won't be the same :( (we actually have waves then)

It's starting to be the time of year that more people are in the water (a lot more) b/c it is warming up and the beach is just flat out jammed. We will be getting tons of seabreezes here soon, as well as spring breakers. It's personally my favorite time to ride. If we can come to an agreement about distance from shore and honor it, we will be better off.

It's been said, but it'd be best if we regulate ourselves to a particular rule, rather than have a stiffer one jammed down our throats or a ban, I think.

After reading everyone's inputs, it's sounds like the swim zone markers might be what we agree to. Why? (up until recently, I usually rode more like 100 feet, btw) Because they apply to powered craft for one. Also, if you are going to stay a certain distance away from shore anyway (like 2 kite lengths), you may as well add 100 more feet. And possibly most importantly and I thought a good point by Whitey, it's a visual reference that shows the public you respect a boundary. For me, that's a biggie.
That's mainly what we are trying to do with most of our self-regulation is show the public we want to be respectful users and be a part of the entire community, right?

I am sure we can come to an agreement. We all want the same thing. The past really is the past. It's gone... pooof. So pointing at yesterday's actions really is pointless. Upholding our word from hear on out will let us point toward tomorrow. It's important we hold ourselves accountable (obvious cliche', I know).

Anyway, one step at a time. At least the conversation is happening, even if not always lovey, dovey.

i am very sorry if i offended anyone, it was not my intent. i did not know that using caps was rude. although i have seen a lot of stuff posted in lower case that is rude. i will step back and go back to just watching. you all have fun, see you at 3r. whitey out.

SCOTT: I think you summed it up and I couldn't agree more with your most recent post. especially about the difference between the beach on a 50 degree day with 25knots wind vs. an 80 degree day during spring break. That was my point about east beach. Even on sunday which was a BEAUTIFUL day, i'm pretty sure i was the only one in the water other than the kiters. There was no risk to beachgoers even if people were riding close to shore. Each launch is different which makes it difficult to have a "general" rule of a certain number of yards, etc. In the fall when we were discussing rules for the signs, I think we agreed that not all the same rules should apply to the skyway vs. east beach vs. St. Pete Beach, etc.

WHITEY: I agree that there has been quite a bit of "rude" postings in lower case letters. However, it has been stressed to me in business that CAPITALIZING represents yelling in written communication. I felt like you jumped down my throat about suggesting that Al shed some light on rules of the road. Not necessarily having to do with boundaries. I know there are a lot of new people out there that don't know who has right of way when approaching, etc. I didn't mean to offend you and i was just letting you know that i was taken aback when i read the first line of your post. Ease down tiger. ;) LOL! Its all good.

EVERYONE: there are a lot of people that are VERY passionate about these issues. Tempers get fired up, people start whipping out the CAPITALIZATION (joke!) and fingers are pointed, people get defensive and we lose productivity. I don't agree that it is a popularity contest. I backed Bryan and Steve-o and Matt in my last post because i truly believe that all three of them have good intentions and truly care about what's going on in the world of kiting. Not every single one of us is going to lead by example every minute of every day. We need to remind people when they overlook things like swim buoys that its a hot issue right now and to steer clear, not accuse them of gross misconduct and absolute carelessness. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing... to be able to go out and enjoy a day of kiting at our local launches, right???

Whitey the caps isn't offensive.. it's to emphasize something in a field of lower case rambling. An entire post in caps might be obnoxious, but I didn't see anything rude about your post ... heck, Amber uses caps all over the place in her post above with the labels SCOTT, WHITEY, EVERYONE, etc... I don't find her post rude either btw.

So no big deal... :D

...And on the next episode of Days of Our Kites...

Skyway Scott videotapes the goings on at the mangrove path at the backside for evidence to make our launches safer with less used condoms and syringes laying around to contaminate the area. Those 60 year old pattycakers don't stand a chance!!!

Stevil Kenevil gives free lessons with his Confederate Flag Freak Dog to his redneck bretheren on Siesta Key. They chew tobacco and argue over whose pickup has more horsepower.

Old School slashes their tires while they aren't looking. Then he outruns them in his Yugo after sneaking up on them and buzzing lines in their mullets with a pair of clippers.

WHITEY IS FOUND AT 3 ROOKER CAPITALIZING ON A WINDY DAY.

Amber then loops the kite and pulls off a handlepass to blind...crashes her 12M Pink Waroo into Adam again, and gets offended that he was in her way.

Toby does flaileys into the sunset on Saturday...

;) I think we've all had enough for one thread!!!

Looks like another great windy day for EB on Saturday!!! See you all there!!!

I am assuming you are trying to get a rise out of some people, Toby.
I don't know what good that does, but whatever.

I believe these efforts will succeed in one form or another despite hecklers and nay-sayers. It's just the way it is. This sport is truly going mainstream now.
I am willing to bet that most of what is going to happen in the next 6 months to a year is going to be done by a group of people around the State and the country cooperating together and working with authorities to iron out some fair guidelines. I doubt much will be discussed online after too much longer, mainly because I think some of you are right - to a large extent being on here is a total waste of time. I happen to think a lot of people learned a lot just recently, though.
Possibly most importantly, that self-regulation is most likely not possible, not amongst "bros", because getting cooperation from all involved is far too difficult.

Well, looks like it pushed yours but that wasn't the intent. It was a fun light-hearted post. Chill the hell out and learn how to take a joke and laugh at it, I poked fun at myself and my friends.

The forum is not a freaking regulatory board, it should be a place where we go to have fun as well as discuss things while the wind isn't blowing. How many different ways can you say the same thing? We know how you and everyone else feels. Enough is enough and continuing with this thread is pointless. Everyone has said what they felt they needed to say. Now its time to move on...

Here is something to chew on. Just got off the phone with Brian May. Did you know he works at Howard Park with the park system. Anyways, he spoke with the supervisor of the park and the only reason there is no kiting aloud at Howard was due to people kiting in the swim zones. No accident, noswimmers that got hurt, no notta. Just an out of town tourists riding in the swimzone on a crowded sunny day and ruining it for all.

So, Brian is putting together a petition that we would like everyone to sign at the race to get Howard Park open again to kiting. We got nothing to lose.

So we are all concerned about beach access in the future, so use Howard as an example that access can be easily taken away and very difficult to get back.

We all need your help on this one whether you ride there or not.

There are some rumors about Howard, and there is the story straight from the supervisors mouth.

same story I heard. good news, hope it works out.

Tags are primarily up to the instructors so we can't answer that question. Signs? We already said yes and agreed on the sign it just never got done.

I guess we could dig up the thread and see who dropped the ball.

You discussed self rescue courses which is a good idea to keep lines contained during the swim in. Wasn't there a big self rescue class at E.B. awhile back? I can't remember but I know they were scheduled two or three times with a bunch of people signed up.

The big issue now is bans and that appears to be happening due to disregarding swim areas so I'd like to hear some ideas on how kite-4-life could address this issue.

Taken from Kiteforum
 

I took this from the discussion on Kiteforum regarding rash guards that indicate community member etc...


“It looks like the Brits have had this sorted out for a long time:

http://www.britishkitesurfingassociatio ... ory/16/35/

I think a good first step could be the formation of local clubs where the riders are easily identified i.e. by a rash guard. This give some small amount of incentive for club members to behave in the public eye. And when an incident happens hopefully it involves a non-member. The existance of a club lays groundwork to allow some responsible kiters to keep access when disrespectful kiters ruin the sports reputation. Hopefully then the worst case scenerio is enforced club membership in order to maintain access as in Ainsdale:

http://www.aoskc.com/page.php?2

Behavior like this needs to have consequences for the kiter for example exclusion from the club:



Jake”


_

Bryan W.

The rash guards sound cool, but good luck trying to get everyone to wear the same thing. ha ha.

the tags we agreed on are cheap (less than two bucks a piece when ordered in quantities of 100), waterproof, durable, and have a place to put emergency contact information, which IMO is a very important benefit.

They would be attached to your harness that way when switching kites, boards, etc. you wouldn't have to remember to change anything. people would forget bracelets, etc. We agreed on three levels and three colors. I've got the catalog at my desk. HOWEVER... i am a broke joke and cannot do this alone. I know that Steve isn't Daddy Warbucks either, so that is why having all the instructors pitch in was the most realistic plan. Members of the community can also volunteer to donate. Like i said...they're not expensive, but someone has to be willing to throw in some dough.

maybe we could set up a bucket at the race post party or something for donations and see how that works out. I'm sure most people would be willing to throw in a couple bucks and with more than 100 people registered, it would cover the entire cost.

gotta go fight fraud. happy friday. what do you guys think?

Crap
 

I think all this is ridiculous. Why would you want to strangle us with all this talk of getting the authorities involved? Preventive or whatever, and having them regulate us? Friggin crazy…Stupid and ill thought. If you want to be so regulated and excessively safe go to the water park in Orlando and ride around in circles for hours.

You cannot compare our area with Miami or FT Lauderdale. Ricks and Neils problems are far worse than ours will ever be. We do not have the attention or population on our beaches. I ride outside and inside the markers and will continue to do so, because I am aware of my surrounds and will not go near people in the water or on shore. I fear it. This should be common sense. And I KNOW most share this common sense. Honestly, how many bystander casualties have you heard of in this area, ever? Non-to my knowledge, and that shows that most of us are conscious of safety, and that we are doing something right. Most of our worries lie with new kiters, the occasional kook, and launching and landing our kites. None of which riding out side the markers will help. Its really a handful that are on some self righteous mission to regulate the entire community because a noob made a noob mistake and got dragged or lofted or just banged up or just did something plan stupid. There is nothing we can do about a wannabe who bought a kite off eBay.

All we can do is put the word out that lessons are as important as a kite, and that is when Randy, Steve O, Eckerd’s and the rest of the local instructors who have an obligation to our community for their part in instruction of safety and related matter. Sorry but there is a risk you take in this game when starting out, and thru ones kiting life, and regulation aren’t going to help that. Shit is going to happen regardless of what kind of regulation you are trying to shove down our throats. And expect for a few choice spots, we are not endanger of losing anything atm. Which also says something. We could us people like Scott, Tom and Steve 0 Steve and the few others that are active in promoting kiting when our access is threaten, and to be our spokesmen when or if some kook or kitemare does threaten our access. But all this getting the authorities involves is not the answer and you are pissing on the freedom this sport offers. Do use all a favor and back off the “let the authorities regulate us crap.” Help out, advise new kiters.

Here's the thing...

I personally wouldnt mind wearing some sort of rashguard or little tag hanging off my harness....

But rigger is right, once we go down that road....of having someone else regulate us... thats what we will get Regulations....
And their will be no comming back from that...

I understand this is not a soultion, just my .02

let me clear something up. The idea of the tags was to prevent "the authorities" regulate us by being proactive and taking care of things ourselves. It is to avoid "them" having to become involved. Its an easy way to promote safety, and give others an idea of who they're on the water and beach with.

I personally get all panicky when someone rides really close to me. Even though people know who i am, they might all not realize that i should have a yellow tag because i'm still learning. That kook with the ebay kite and no lessons would have no tag which would be an alert to area riders.

Rigger... not sure who you are, and that would probably help, but blatantly stating that you don't care and you don't think anything bad will happen is just plain careless. if you care about this sport and the future of it in our area, be a big boy and stay outside swim markers unless its 40 degrees out and there is no one out there.

I think that your mentality in dealing with the authorities via PR people AFTER something bad happens is absolutely ridiculous. sorry... it is. You act as if you're invincible. I don't know who you are so i don't know how you ride, but let me tell you that you can be a kiter as good as Billy or Matt or Mike, be riding thru a swim zone with kids in it, be in total control and have a line snap, a chicken loop accidentally release, etc. Shit... Tomstock had a freaking BIRD hit his bridle and snap it.

Its a risky sport. We try to do what we can to lower the risk level. If this includes putting a luggage tag on your harness and you're not okay with at least discussing that, maybe you need to find other places to ride so your arrogance and ignorance doesn't cause me to loose a great place to ride.

I see your point but we are already regulated by the authorities. We are just getting away with it because our numbers are still low and there hasn't been a serious accident yet.... but there have been PLENTY of accidents on the beach with bystanders. I've seen my share.

When the crowds increase and we DO have that one bad accident expect your beach launch days to be history, just like Howard Park. All it takes is ONE accident. Look how much attention the power line lofting got and poor Chris didn't even hurt a bystander. With all of the "Dangerous sport?" headlines imagine if he HAD hurt someone else?

Sorry I'm not being a spokesperson for anyone "after the fact". Tough luck on that one. Thats like telling someone not to do something and then cleaning up for them after they blatantly do it anyway.

I'd rather just quit kiteboarding when that happens than clean up after a bunch of egotistical careless self centered kiteboarders (obviously this doesn't include everyone).


Honestly I can't believe nobody can even agree to stay outside a swim area. That is about as rediculous,self centered, and irresponsible as it gets. It's just one thing and it's something we are already supposed to be doing.

Forget the newbs who don't know any better. The real kook is the one who DOES know better and does it anyway...

Also, I am not talking about a few tacks inside the buoys. I am talking about blatantly jumping and riding 10 feet from shore in and around swimmers. Everyone tacks inside the swim area one in awhile just like we all speed once in awhile. There is a difference between pushing it and outright disregard.

I got to ride today. It was definitely a nice day. It's amazing how clean the water is getting year to year. Visibility today reminded me of the keys or something. 20 years ago it was basically pea soup out there.

It's cool to see all the viewpoints on here. It's interesting for sure.
After today I decided that I am going to focus on myself and how I ride. I literally don't care what others do anymore. Attempting to change views is a waste of time, so I won't do it. I think Tammy saw how I will interact with/as a part of the community today. A new guy showed up and asked about me about the rules at PaG. I said "just mimic everyone else and you are good to go". Majority rules, basically.

So, I am just going to focus on me. To that end, I want it understood that I have zero intent of making a video (pointless), talking to any authorities (pointless) or doing anything. I just don't want to be "the guy" that screwed us over, so I am going to ride outside the swim zone, regardless of what others do.

The main reason I want to make it clear that I am not focusing on the rest of you is that when/if we lose access, I don't want one person thinking even for a second that I was somehow involved. It's not going to take someone talking, it's only going to take further bad behavior. So, if a ban happens, trust me, I didn't talk to anyone up to this point and won't. Anyone concerned about myself approaching authorities has my word on it that I won't. Only a fool would talk to the beach police at this point and risk being blamed if something bad happens soon.

Amber first thing is im not egotist. Im being a realist. And my point is that we are going to shoot our selfs in the foot. My thoughts were a collection of what i read on this thread. I don’t think I addressed anything you mention in your posts. I respect how active you are in the kiting community. And i think you to be sweet, well until you bashed me ;) Oh and Ive been discussing this shit for years. If we all rode in the same spot, then we could possible enforce some kind of the stuff mentioned. But the fact of the matter is that we dont. I would gladly were a luggage tag if it made you feel safer. Oh and this is Jeff Btw

Tom, my point is that most us practice as safe riders.. All this regulation stuff usually comes up after one incident occurs usually with a new kiter, which is also far and few between. I would gladly wear a luggage tag if it made you feel safer too. That’s not my point. My point is that I enjoy riding in the gulf most of all and the meager waves that we get. And when i read about people wanting to video tape people on the beach and have the authorities make our regulation all because someone is riding inside the markers, it irks me. I don’t pull kite loops 10ft from shore, im talking about tacking in and out and playing in the waves, I don’t think its unsafe, If you call that selfcenter than oh well buddy,because we ALL do it. That is my point.
If you really see something unsafe, (beating died horse) Then say something. If they dont listen call the authorites like OS did. Keep all the super regulation stuff at EB were the masses gather and the real possibly of a serious accident occurring. Most times even on a windy day, i can count the amount of kites in the air from coast to coast on one hand. Us riding inside the marks has never been an issue, please dont make it one. I guess thats all im really saying.

Rigger, yeah thats what I am talking about. I'm not talking about just riding back and forth in areas with few swimmers.

Anyway, I'm just going to let it go and hope for the best.. ... be safe.

I hope a few different views and disagreements really don’t make you feel that way Scott. You are definitely Old school and your knowledge about kiting is a valuable resource for all of us. I mean that.

I have to admit that the video tape thing did twist me the wrong way. Mainly because the Gulf is my riding spot of choice, and I do tack in and out thru the markers, with the mentality those swimmers have the right of way. Again I don’t feel that as being unsafe. That’s just my take on it.

ok rigger... your last post seems MUCH more reasonable. It seemed in the previous one that you were basically telling us to F-off. What's important to stress is that its not something that Scott or Steve or anyone can fix once its already happened. Wanna know how quick we could lose access for a SMALL incident? Just ask the guys up in Chicago or Miami. They had to work their asses off to get their access back, and now they are limited to certified riders, mandatory helmets, etc. I'd prefer to do what I can to prevent that here. If that means keeping a reasonable distance from swimmers, it baffles me how that could be something people are trying to argue against.

You definitely got me fired up earlier. A lot of research and discussions led us to the tag thing last summer and for someone to take something as low-key as that and say that I (we) are trying to strangle them with it... well yeah. You pissed me off. ;) No hard feelings ever on here... until someone is an idiot, and not by accident and it screws over the rest of us. then there might be some hard feelings.

see you at the beach...

*To clarify one thing- My goal is to educate, not regulate.

I admit I get fired up and get on here and start voicing my opinion maybe louder than I should. I sort of get tunnel vision. For that I appologize. Forums have always been an issue for me... maybe I am a little obsessive.

I'm just going to ride, take my meds, and let it work itself out. I guess it will eventually.

No point in pissing evenryone off and making enemies with a decent bunch of guys over differing opinions especially when I don't even ride the beaches much anymore. Plus I have 5 boards in progress so I don't even know why I'm wasting my time on forums anyway.

So with that said, I'm outta this thread and I wish I'd just never even read it.

See you in the flat water...

Man, I apologize if I offended anyone. I had some concerns that I expressed in the wrong way. The thread name says it all.