Inviting the park, or any sort of authority to regulate our sport is a bad idea for our area IMO. We already have too much government intrusion into our lives; let’s keep the govt out of our sport.
We have been fortunate to have for the most part unrestricted access to all the beaches in our area. Let’s try to use some common sense and work together to protect our access. I am sure that most will agree that rules established by US will be more palatable than rules established by THEM.

I do support the idea of establishing some common courtesy rules and etiquette at the crowded launch sites for the sake of everyone’s safety. There is strength in numbers, and if the majority of us agree to establish some civilized order at the crowded riding spots it will be much easier to enforce as a group rather than one or two concerned riders.

Regarding a certification, if you are a competent rider without a card, catch me at the beach and I will confirm your level and issue you an IKO card. I would do this for free, however the cards aren't, so for $5 its yours.

..............

These are exactly the rules for bieng allowed to ride at Crandon Park, Miami. Except that you missed one. Over there they also Make you wear a helmet in addition to signing in at the park office B 4 U go kiting and having insurance + IKO cert.

Don't they also make you use a leash? The helmet is a good idea (I wear one always), but if I was king at least the leash would be manditory.

.........

I know that the rules and regulations really worked out well for the school in Miami since they worked out a monopoly for kiting at Crandon Park with the rangers.

I'm sure that it would work out similarly well over here and make money just like they did in Crandon.

:roll:

http://www.miamikiteboarding.com/New...%20Crandon.htm

http://www.miamikiteboarding.com/

:roll:

tom you are 100% right.. no one said anything (that i know of).. and i am not going to let that happen again for myself.. i was trying to work out the right thing to say in my mind but he got back in the water and was gone..

i personally have forgot to buckle my kite leash a couple times and i have been called out on it (Ebone!) and i seriously appreciate his sharp eyes for catching my mistake.

i guess i have heard a few "go f**K yourself" stories and im the no-confrontational type.

no more..

and yes.. i usually have an extra leash in my car.. i would suggest that everyone should grab a second leash and have ti with them incase someone might need to borrow it..
get some sort of collateral so no one forgets to trade back...etc..

Did my post get deleted or did I just not post it?

What rules did I violate with my post so I can be sure not to do it again.

Kev I can say that I know nothing about a post of yours getting deleted. Deleting of a post should be few and far between, unless you resort to spam, playground tactics and name calling there really shouldn't be any deleting.

Regarding the official rules here, I didn't make them up but they appear to be pretty simple:

Do not advertise outside of [COM] Forums.
Do not show disrespect for others in your postings.
Users can be denied access to this Site without warning.
FKA, Inc., it’s officers and moderators are not responsible
for the content of the postings and any links or pictures posted.

I am no Crandon Park expert, but from what I know of the situation, it actually worked out well for the local kiteboarders who are limited in beaches to kite at in the area. Kiteboarding was banned at that park and it took the proactive measures by concerned kiteboarders to negotiate with the park to allow access. Maybe Rick will shed some light on the past and present situation at Crandon in order to clear up any biased opinion and rumor.


The real issue for us locally is preventing access restrictions and bans BEFORE they occur. This should be simple to achieve if the majority agree upon, respect and adhere to reasonable and common sense based guidelines and order among the kiteboarding community.

Nobody likes "rules", however I do believe our rules will be more in our favor and interests than Pinellas County (DeSoto) or the FDOT (Skyway) rules or outright bans on kiteboarding.

One other thing occurs ot me at least in reading here. While most of us agree there should be some kind of regulation in kiting, you have a bunch of people who may kite regularly (not even visitors) that don't read the boards or even realize that access may be restricted. I would commend all of us for making the community what it is, however even if you have concurrence here, the ones that really need to know probably aren't reading this, and most likely won't have the same "investment" in our spots. I was talking with a co-worker and he said at TI a while ago some guy was trying to learn on his own and slamming his kite down everywhere, he said that seemed really stupid. It is that kind of person we need to reach out to and encourage to become a part of the kiting culture here in TampaBay and beyond.

I definitely know if and when I decide if I am brave enough, I wouldn't go it alone.

I may have just not hit the submit button and exited out without realizing it, but I guess my post could've fallen into the catagory of disrespect (IE profanity.) Sorry if that was the case.

But I was just stating I don't want ANY officials involved in our rules at East Beach. The only way we should need to establish rules is if there IS an outright ban and we need rules to get the place back.

Don't mess around with mentioning anything to the rangers because that'll just get us in more trouble.

It's more of a don't ask don't tell policy, we need to better self police ourselves.

..............

You can take my word, I have been kiting there since 1996. The sites in miami are all under constant threat of closing from officials. That county park was led into a "relationship" that was exclusive to an entity. The other kiteboarders in the area that didn't agree said " $#@! " this and now kite elsewhere like matheson hammock

Raul, what the hell are you talking about?

I've spent several hundred hours of my time over many years trying to preserve access at a place that I ride at maybe once a year and before less than that. This includes traveling hours across two counties to numerous meetings with officials to negotiate the means of maintain access. A hundred faxes, emails, group meetings, advisories, finding insurance, losing it after a few years, working up a solution and making it stick, preparing and negotiating guidelines in the hopes that it might work this time. There was more than this of course. We lost it quite a few times and it took talking and a fair amount of work to restore it each time.

All this time and effort was donated by me not to make money but to try to preserve access. Failing money a bit of respect and regard would be appreciated. I will admit I am out of touch currently, the manager has changed again and for what I know things are still moving forward. So, I'm going to stay out of it until and if things start to show signs of distress again.

Make sure you know what you are talking about and more critically, who you are insulting.

..........

Geeeeeez.. :shock: whenever I launch my kite..that means I want to ride...chattin on the beach to amp your egos ..is soooooo lame...show the shizzle on Z water...actions DO speak louder...show me the dizzle on the water and get off the beach bitches...if your not launchin or landin....your FIRED...have some respect...remember that word..if not look it up!We all have this one thing in common...let it bring us together and not by tangling our lines...

Finally,
Someone speaks up that makes sense-izzle. Thanks for clearing things up... for shizzle!

123

.........

The most important thing I've learned from kiteboarding is that kiteboarders cannot self regulate. They will get banned, and then move on to ride somewhere else until they are banned there too. How many people have tried to regain access at Howard Park beach? I know, there are other places to ride... and there always will be... until all of the good spots are gone.

Face it, we will kill our own sport.

There is a constant supply young egos which makes it impossible to agree on anything or do anything to protect our sport.

I gave up a long time ago when I tried to help "protect our image". We had some journalists hanging out on our forum collecting info for magazine articles when suddenly a civil war errupted ... I tried to filter it out by moderating posts and well you can see how well that worked out. I finally had to shut it down before everyone ended up enemies. That was just a forum.. imagine trying to enforce rules on a beach!

So my conclusion is, why bother. It's like bailing water from a river. There is an endless supply of people who just don't want to agree on anything or who will just ignore the rules.

At one point I wanted to be an instructor and teach people to kiteboard... then I realized that the faster our sport takes off, the quicker we will loose our favorite spots. Is making money on kiteboarding worth loosing our spots? I'd rather work a 9-5 job and have a place to ride than spend a couple of years cranking out students only to have our spots over crowded or lost altogether.

Kiteboarding will not be regulated until it's banned. Don't worry, it'll happen soon.

Just 2 more of my cents:

1) Is that Liability insurance is very important in any dangerous to semi-dangerous sport. Not just for the help it provides in keeping "the man" off our back. But, more so in saving you yourself from paying for an accident for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. I don't think it matters if you are very well off or dirt poor. Either way with out some liability protection your ass is very much on the line for the rest of your life.

2) Though I'm not so much for forced regulation. I don't see why people are so against at least having an open line of communication with the Desoto people. Is it fear that even talking to them will have bad consequences? From what I gather they are happy with us being out there. Why not have a line of communication with them?[/u]

guys.. friends.. fellow kite addicts..

Lets not let this thread turn sour.

It has been a long time since I've seen attitude on this board and I think its childish and unacceptable. Keep obviously personal issues off the public threads. Debate is encouraged, sh*t slinging is not.

While I don't agree entirely with Tom's point of view on the forecast of where we are heading.. it's not helping if a good thread with good (and differing) points of view are brought forward turns completely negative.

I am not taking sides or calling anyone out.. just be adults about this stuff.

None of us want to have limits put on our fun. But with the growing number of people that are getting into the sport, some sort of regulation will have to be done. And its going to be on our terms or someone else's ....

Decisions we make as a group today might protect our favorite kiting spots for years to come.

I think we should call a meeting at a local restaurant and get as many of us to come down with ideas and just talk about this stuff. If you have facts and figures or examples .. bring em all! ..

The problem with forums is that they are all talk.

ya, but you gotta get a good, full conversation going to ensure that all sides are spoken for.

funny thing to me is that is that i know that we are all in agreement on so much of this stuff and we argue over the tiny little details.

i think the first step is that if everyone makes a conscious effort to do their best to go talk to people that are or look to be about to do something unsafe.

it does not happen all the time.. on a busy day there are tons of people out that are all fine kiters and we all might kite a little close to shore or maybe lay our lines out when we should be wrapping them up..

but..

if you see a rider about to launch a kite incorrectly or in an unsafe manner, you should go over and start up a conversation.

I've seen this done with great success.

If you see someone riding without a leash.. do what you can to get them a leash to borrow...

small step for man. giant double kiteloop for a kiteboarder

well put Bryan. Thanks.

Well, hopefully that's what anyone with some common sense would be doing already. I know it's something I've been doing since I started riding.

As for rules (insurance, launch/land area, helmets, leashes, cert cards) good luck. The only way it's going to ever happen is if the parks get involved, otherwise there is no enforcement.

The leash is a good example. Some lost a kite 2 or 3 times because they weren't using a leash. Obviously someone helped them recover this lost kite, and probably helped them launch again a second and third time.

agreed 100% tom..

and tho i didnt relaunch the guy.. i didnt say anything either..
and i'm not going to let that happen again w/o trying to see if i can offer to help out.

some might not respond to help as well as others.. but i think most just honestly forget or they are new and dont know better...

ive said my piece.

here's a shout out to good winds coming up and a great party this weekend!

after the winds from Monday afternoon I am AMPED to get out and ride. its been MONTHS of sea breezes and light winds.. gimme 25+ baby..

Well, next time if I'm there, come get me and we'll both walk over and have a chat if someone needs it ... maybe a few more will come along to make it clear we are serious and not just trying to be assholes on our own.

bump

From scanning through and reading everyones post it looks like some thing has to happen to insure that the riding spots stay open. I think that Tom, Bryan, Josh, Steve and SOME others have valid points.

Some of the riders have positive things to say and others just want to immediately shoot others down. Some want to over regulate when others want there to be little to no regulation.

I RESPECT all of it.

The last time I was at EB I had a kiter slam there kite in front of me and I rode right through the middle of there kite. I felt bad bc there kite was wrecked but at the same time I was upset that the beach has gotten so over crowed and unsafe.

Whats the answer?

There has to be a balance between having regulation and not having to pay when you want to go and ride at a public park.

Get a board of people that want to volunteer there time to set regulations and then have the riders of the area vote on what they think is right through online forums.

I have my own private beach

Great article
 

Steve, I just put it up per your request. I didn't see it until now. As far as childish games, I don't play any and don't plan to tolerate much here. I hope you folks secure access over your way. It is a group project with no one individual or few individuals having much hope of success on their own speaking from personal experience. Consensus building is what it is about. It is easy to say but folks need to focus on the problem, a short list of solutions and make it happen. Splintering into factions will likely defeat such efforts as readily as more wide spread indifference we experience on this coast. Good luck.

p.s. - Paul did put forward some good ideas in his article. I would pass it around and talk about it.

i'm sorry, but who are you specifically talking about, just call them out so everyone knows... i don't want to refer anyone to a drunken instructor.

I removed my posts out of respect to the local community.

I addressed a legitimate safety concern and park rules issue, and got nothing but personal attacks, threats, and interference with me being able to give a safe lesson- the offenders didn't even have the courtesy to show up to the discussion. Nothing new there.

All parties involved are aware of the issue, and of the future course of action if it continues.

As far as I am concerned it is water under the bridge.


Happy kiting!