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-   -   bad times at SW. almost horrific. (http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=3912)

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 08:42 AM

bad times at SW. almost horrific.
 
so.. fully powered on 9m waroo this morning.. rigged and riding by 7am.

745 i was coming back downwind from a huge tack up past the bridge.. just a great great cruising day.

i'm about 200 yards from shore when SNAP.. my right side of my waroo 2006 bar comes apart. kite did a quick, unpowered loop and landed on its leading edge.

i'm thinking 'crap.. this sucks' when the kite loops again.. and again and again.. no power.. just annoying that the damn thing wont settle down.

i yell to guy on the beach to see if he can grab the kite.. he comes running towards it from the side..

kite loops again and again.. little more power in it now.. i see the lines are tightening up.. difficult to stand in the waist deep water.

guy is approaching and i notice that as the kite loops, the broken part of the bar is looping with it and SMASHING into the water with tremendous power.

i yell "Get back .. get back.." .. that bar end would have knocked him sensless. seriously dangerous to come in from the side.. should have gone downwind of the kite and to grab it from the back safely..

i am about to tell him this when the kite really starts to gain power and i realize that i am being dragged quickly into the beach.. i'm trying to fight it.. pointless.. absolutely pointless and i know i have to ditch the kite.

i pull the release and the release on the leash and expect to see the kite fly into the mangroves right there on the beach line..

NOPE.. f**king kite takes flight and goes overtop the trees full steam towards the freeway.

F U C K.

I run to my car and haul ass to the road.. i am expecting to see my kite wrapped around a car or some other horrific scene... i look to the mangroves and THANKFULLY the kite is tangled up in the very very edge tree..

i never would think that i would be estatic to see my kite in a tree.

after 30 minutes of work i am able to climb to the top and cut the lines and recover the kite. not a scratch on it that i could see. (same cannot be said for my legs) bar and lines still in the tree tops. going back to reclaim ASAP to get the parts back and see what exactly happened to the bar.

i am lucky as hell that the kite got tangled where it did. could have been hell.

i had a guy pull out in front of my while driving home yesterday. I was going 50 when he ran a stop sign.. it was the nearest i've ever been to what could be a near fatal accident. i was able to swerve out of the way...

i am freaked out more from todays little adventure.

my bar was about 1 and 1/2 years old.

and.. i do have to say i am quite dissapointed that not a single person at the beach offered to help me recover my kite. i've always gone out of my way to help out in any situation i could. always try to keep an eye out for people that could use some assistance. my legs are sliced to hell from recovering my kite today. another person or two helping out and we could have brought down the limb trapping my kite with ease. not pointing fingers, just saying.. help your fellow kiter cuz i PROMISE that you will need help yourself sometime...

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 08:58 AM

thinking about it now.. what i should have done.. and will do in the future if something like this occurs..

i should have disconnected my leash from my CL and clipped it to the left side safety loop and then pulled the CL release.

this may have flagged the kite completely ... not sure .. but its something that might have worked ..

inferno 05-07-2007 09:41 AM

one other idea, if your already planning on letting it go, dont bother trying to leash to the OSHandle, just grab it with one hand and release the kite with the other, once you flag it to a back line your fine..
sorry for the bad luck...
i had LP to myself from 5:15 to 8:30 nice flat water on the inside, perfect 3ft ramps on the outside with gusts to 40.... man did i get high this morning......

Big G 05-07-2007 09:42 AM

Bryan,
I think you failed to mention where this accurred?
SN or EB


Edit...sorry, now I see the SW.

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inferno (Post 18933)
one other idea, if your already planning on letting it go, dont bother trying to leash to the OSHandle, just grab it with one hand and release the kite with the other, once you flag it to a back line your fine..
sorry for the bad luck...
i had LP to myself from 5:15 to 8:30 nice flat water on the inside, perfect 3ft ramps on the outside with gusts to 40.... man did i get high this morning......

i'd rather not risk getting a finger tangled...

with the one line disconnected there was no controlling the kite. i know that the OS handles are supposed to be fingers friendly but I'd rather lose 10 kites than 1 part of my hand.

:)

BTW... Toby.. if you are in the mangroves later tonight with one of your "friends" and you see the remaining parts of my bar/lines can you get them for me. Daryl from Extreme Kites mentioned that w/ a photo of the bar that came apart, BEST might be able to do something to cover the cost of replacement or help a bit. :)

BigR 05-07-2007 10:24 AM

That was scary stuff Bryan, I was way on the outside when I saw you do what you had to do. Release the kite. I was amazed to see it just go over the top of all the mangroves. Thankfully it didn't hit I-275.

One thing about these bow kites, I think I mentioned it two -three weeks back, THEY DO NOT SELF LAND OR STAY ON THE WATER @ 30++KNOTS. period. something has to be figured out to be able to 100% kill the power when the wind goes above the kites range. BTW, I also "self-landed in a mangrove via kiteloop" 3 weeks ago in 30++kts.

Sorry , no one helped you out getting your kite Bryan , but there was nobody really at the beach except for Lori, Alan and another dude. Me and Shane came in soon after but I think you had gotten your kite by then.

toby wilson 05-07-2007 10:50 AM

It doesn't matter WHO was on the beach. If someone was there, they should have helped. PERIOD. This is an individual sport but it is one where we consistently need assistance from our fellow kiters.

This same "it's not me, why should I bother to help, they'll just learn a lesson" attitude was the reason Roy's old Turbo Diesel got a tear across the whole leading edge from the rocks downwind toward the bridge at the SW when he was a newbie. Why not just make a little bit of effort and help out our bros? It takes just a little bit of effort and makes you feel good about helping others and earns you some respect from the person you helped out.

BTW Bryan, you may not want that bar back after me and my "backside buddies" are done with it...LOL

I'm VERY glad to hear that you are okay bro!!!

inferno 05-07-2007 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby wilson (Post 18937)
This is an individual sport but it is one where we consistently need assistance from our fellow kiters.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Danimal8199 05-07-2007 11:06 AM

Glad to see the end result was better than it could have been.

Where is the best spot to ride when there are nne winds, East Beach?

What are all the acronyms for the riding spots? I see them alot and try to make out what I can I guess EB is east beach, BS, is the westside of the skyway?

Is anyone else riding after work today?

BigR 05-07-2007 11:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by toby wilson http://www.fksa.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
This is an individual sport but it is one where we consistently need assistance from our fellow kiters.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
That is Ridiculous Toby! Like I said B4, there was no one at the beach basically. You weren't there and didn't see where or how it happened or
where it went into the mangroves. hint, not close to the rigging area.

And even if there was, HOW can you help when the person you were going to help runs into their car and drives off at full speed? what do you do then? get on your magic carpet and follow ? to where? Wouldn't he have waited for someone, to jump in the car with him if he wanted help?

By the time Shane and I came in ( which was quick ) he had already driven back with kite

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 11:28 AM

again, i am not pointing fingers and did not see who was on the beach and who was not. i know who was riding when it happened and i know that i passed a couple people (really have no recollection of who as i was not paying attention) as i raced to my car.

really i am not singling anyone out.. not at all. i just want to say that i hope people that can help, will. that is all.

robertovillate 05-07-2007 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanleighty (Post 18935)
i'd rather not risk getting a finger tangled...

with the one line disconnected there was no controlling the kite. i know that the OS handles are supposed to be fingers friendly but I'd rather lose 10 kites than 1 part of my hand.

BL - Wow, glad you are OK. That is a situation I've often imagined at that spot and I've steered my students away from these spots with this in mind. And yes, someone should have helped you out...but then again sometimes there's nobody there who can help.

This type of situation is precisely why I carry 2 leashes - so I can transfer one to the O-shit without being completely leashless and disconnected / or having to rely on my fingers to hold the OSH - very risky. I typically ride with both attached to the centerline most of the time...If I am going far offshore cruising and not doing tricks I hook one to the OSH in case my centerline or something else breaks unexpectedly. I've even used the extra leash as a tow line for another kiter.

Not to sound redundant but launching/landing/and anything else close to shore is where we are most vulnerable. Even an experienced rider can have it handed to him/her...things can happen so fast.

PS...can you post a photo of the bar so other 06 Waroo bar owners can see what happened?

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 11:43 AM

good idea Roberto..

could have been SO much worse..

could have been jumping.. could have been way upwind where i had been only 5 minutes prior.. could have been a few hundred yards from the bridge where i had been only 3 minutes prior.. could have been while i was launching.. could have been when i was riding at the beach last weekend..could have been when Dan and I were riding with this bar at backside skyway a couple weeks ago in 30+ wind.

could have been so much worse in pretty much any scenario ... i think i got off light.

and really.. about my comments for no one helping.. i did race to my car and speed off like a bat outta hell.. (thinking i wouild have to do a freeway kite recovery).. so i know that it was impossible for anyone to see where i went.

as a whole...i dont think people *have* to help... i just hope that everyone would always *want* to help.

i know i have gone WAY out of my way to help a downed rider or two.. and often do board retrevials to help a fellow rider out as much as possible. I just hope everyone else would do the same for me ...

I guess after a really good scare my emotions were a bit outta whack so i got a little pissy. hehehe..

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertovillate (Post 18944)
PS...can you post a photo of the bar so other 06 Waroo bar owners can see what happened?

will do!

going to brave the mangroves tomorrow afternoon to try to get it back. it up about 20 feet..

i have a retractable hook pole on my sailboat.

Lori 05-07-2007 11:57 AM

Bryan I am glad you are OK.

That freeked me out enough not to put up my kite this morning and go to work!

I have to admit I froze when seeing the kite hit the water for nanoseconds and then relaunch, then think you were OK cuz kite was in air (did not know your bar was broken) and then do kiteloops and crash and repeat. How do you even go and grap someones kite without making the situation worse. As you said approaching from the downwind side is probably the way to go but still hard to judge where it is going to land to grap before it relaunches without you being on the wrong side of that. So it was not an easy can you catch my kite situation. But next time I would run downwind and try to grap it. I barely was able to grap Rauls kite on the sand before it relauched and it was not looping that is how windy it was.


I was actually more concerned for the cars on the skyway then the kite as I am sure you where at first as well as the kite appeared to go over the first set of trees. But I saw no change in trafick flow so figure it had been caught somewhere you were OK and no accidents on the bridge so I thought it was a very good ending. But if you ever need help getting a kite down just ask for help unfortuntely today it was not clear how to help you out there today so I think everybody was a bit frozen with the looping kite going over the trees.

toby wilson 05-07-2007 12:12 PM

Lori - no need to come on here and say that, you probably couldn't have done much in the situation. My comments (and Bryan's I'm sure) were NOT aimed at you. I want to make that clear.

My frustration lies when I see this happen on a crowded day with 35 people on the beach standing around watching someone get dragged repeatedly and then I hear someone mutter "let them learn a lesson". Enough people die or get seriously injured in this sport every year, all I am saying (and doing my best not to offend anyone in the process) is to watch out for your fellow kiters like you would appreciate being looked after in an emergency situation.

E-Bone 05-07-2007 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanleighty (Post 18945)
I guess after a really good scare my emotions were a bit outta whack so i got a little pissy. hehehe..

I've done the same thing. Glad to hear you did not sustain a major injury.

That is the interesting thing about gear failure in heavy wind--even if the gear is new and has a lot of safety features, if something breaks in heavy wind, the odds are that the shit will hit the fan.

Bryan, you've been kiting for a few years now, but it sounds like you traveled back in time with an old school kitemare. Welcome to the year 2000 or 2001. This is how it used to feel to kite back then, except this kind of crap happened much more often during those medieval times, even when the damn gear didn't break.

invisible 05-07-2007 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby wilson (Post 18937)
they'll just learn a lesson" attitude was the reason Roy's old Turbo Diesel got a tear across the whole leading edge from the rocks downwind toward the bridge at the SW when he was a newbie.

Sounds like he learned a lesson to me ! Like don't ride down wind near the rocks unless you are prepared for the consequences?

How many times are we going to see the same people stuck across the channel or walking from the rocks 100 feet from the road.

Regardless, yeah I'd have helped you Bryan... I drove by and saw you guys boosting. Sounds like you now know what the o-sh$t handles are for. Glad you are ok.

Erick 05-07-2007 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigR (Post 18940)
That is Ridiculous Toby! Like I said B4, there was no one at the beach basically. You weren't there and didn't see where or how it happened or
where it went into the mangroves. hint, not close to the rigging area.

And even if there was, HOW can you help when the person you were going to help runs into their car and drives off at full speed? what do you do then? get on your magic carpet and follow ? to where? Wouldn't he have waited for someone, to jump in the car with him if he wanted help?

By the time Shane and I came in ( which was quick ) he had already driven back with kite

Toby's point is that if you are able to help then be proactive, if you don’t feel you can accomplish a rescue then is better to stay away. However, I have seen many cases were riders are just simple spectators.

invisible 05-07-2007 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby wilson (Post 18937)
they'll just learn a lesson" attitude was the reason Roy's old Turbo Diesel got a tear across the whole leading edge from the rocks downwind toward the bridge at the SW when he was a newbie.

Sounds like he learned a lesson to me ! Like don't ride down wind near the rocks unless you are prepared for the consequences. Ultimately we are all on our own which is why we learn self rescue techniques. However, I agree that we should all make an attempt to help if possible.... providing it's not an unreasonable waste of time (like the same person getting stranded repeatedly which has been happening a lot lately).

Ok back to Bryan:

Scary dude, yeah I'd have helped you no problem.... I drove by and saw you guys boosting. Sounds like you now know what the o-sh$t handles are for! BTW, I think the name "o-sh%t handles" doesn't come from when you need them, but from when you grab one and forget to release the velcro first!!! Instant kite loop, no more finger. Glad you are ok.

toby wilson 05-07-2007 12:33 PM

Tom, what if it had been Roy's head instead of his kite? What if Roy's bar had broken and his kite started looping toward the rocks? What then? I guess he would have just "learned a lesson", huh?

Just my opinion but I am all about taking 2 minutes to help a bro out. Looks like I am in the minority though.

In this situation I am sure that Raul and the others on the water would have helped out, they are good guys who I am sure would have helped.

But that kind of thinking isn't cool Tom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by invisible (Post 18951)
Sounds like he learned a lesson to me ! Like don't ride down wind near the rocks unless you are prepared for the consequences?

How many times are we going to see the same people stuck across the channel or walking from the rocks 100 feet from the road.

Regardless, yeah I'd have helped you Bryan... I drove by and saw you guys boosting. Sounds like you now know what the o-sh$t handles are for. Glad you are ok.


amber 05-07-2007 12:42 PM

I was actually driving on the skyway when you were on your tack back towards shore. I hadn't seen the "high winds" flashing lights on the skyway for a while and it was a challenge just to make it over the bridge and stay in my lane at the same time. So glad that you are okay. If you see toby out at the beach over the next couple days feel free to use my bar.

I would like to see pics of your bar as well. Give us a call if you're gonna try to get your bar out of the trees and we'd be happy to come help if we're around.

shogun1204 05-07-2007 12:45 PM

Help everyone
 
I really dont think anyone needs to learn a lesson with there kite. If someone is in trouble help them out. Thats IMO. Actually I still am a Newbie, but I was real new then! I didn't know about the rocks then, because no one ever told me about it. I tell everyone that comes out to Skyway not to kite over there if they can avoid it.

I was actually ok that one day when I tore up my old Turbo Diesel. I got the kite back in the air before I got to the rocks. I was standing there becaue the current was strong there and was just waiting for the current to bring my board to me. I tried body dragging but the wind was so light and the current was strong I was going nowhere. Someone that was kitting came up and grab my board and tried to give it to me. Then the wind died and there kite was comming right at mine so I tired to dive it out of the way and then my TOP OF THE LINE TURBO DIESEL inverted and fell out of the sky right onto the rocks. Who would of thought that a TD would invert so easily! LOL It would have been nice if someone came down and caught my kite for me so I could have just ran out and got my board. Oh well, the thing that sucked the most is I just replaced the Leading edge on that POS like 2 weeks before it happen, because the old one blew up on me! I was more upset that I had to freaking redo the Leading Edge again! Man it is a PAIN IN THE A$$ to switch out Leading edges on one pump kites! LMAO

Well I dont care how anyone acts when it comes to helping each other out. I help anyone out if I can! I have done everything, from catching a run away kite, looking for lost boards in the water, etc. I dont care if I like you or not! LOL I will help anyone out as much as I can. Hopefully setting a good example will rub off on everyone else. http://fksa.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

sparkyman 05-07-2007 12:47 PM

Glad your OK Mr B. I have a telescoping 20' pole Fox Bros have 30' one if u need it. Will pm u with # Jordain

amber 05-07-2007 12:48 PM

roy-that's the attitude that drew me to this sport. When i started hanging around about a year ago everyone on the beach had that karma-friendly attitude and were constantly looking out for one another. Now most of what i see is people complaining about other people riding. its definitely a disappointment. So... for those of us that want others to do onto us as we do for them.... keep up the energy and good vibes and we'll all have more fun on the beach.

invisible 05-07-2007 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby wilson (Post 18954)
Tom, what if it had been Roy's head instead of his kite? What if Roy's bar had broken and his kite started looping toward the rocks? What then? I guess he would have just "learned a lesson", huh?

Toby if that would have been happening people would have been running. Since that didn't happen it's irrelevant.

Quote:

so I tired to dive it out of the way and then my TOP OF THE LINE TURBO DIESEL inverted and fell out of the sky right onto the rocks
And, based on Roy's description of what happened the kite fell out of the sky onto the rocks WHILE someone else was trying to help him, so how would a rescue have saved the kite? Sounds like the rescue crashed the kite!

Quote:

Just my opinion but I am all about taking 2 minutes to help a bro out. Looks like I am in the minority though.
Everyone helps whenever they can. I can't even tell you how many times I've done the 100 yard sprint.

Besides, I just had a talk with Roy the other day about some people who shouldn't be rescued right away... getting stranded somewhere over and over and over... and eating coconuts that wash up on shore! j/k Sure you can rescue them if you want to, but you'll do it again 15 minutes later.

toby wilson 05-07-2007 01:06 PM

You probably have Roy mixed up with someone else. He goes out his way to help out all the time.

BigR 05-07-2007 01:14 PM

I think people are having a hard time DIFFERENTIATING between helping/ rescuing during a life and death situation which is usually over in a matter of seconds

VERSUS

Helping a friend untangle a rats nest of tangled lines

One is much more important than the other, and I'm sure everyone is obligated , and will do the right thing vs. the nice thing which isn't

robertovillate 05-07-2007 01:26 PM

I think it goes without saying ...and that it's somewhat safe to say that people are usually willing to help and they will do just that. Perhaps this thread is getting off-track...???

BL's account of what happened is noteworthy...and what to do if it happens to you, how to prevent it if possible (not always), are the real issues.

Gear failures happen sometimes and they take us all by surprise...sometimes at the worst possible moment. I for one am curious to see photos the bar and understand why it broke, any comments from BEST...

Bars break, lines break, bridles break, harnesses, spreader bars, footstraps...etc, etc...and sometimes quick thinking and a little luck is all we can rely on for those few scary moments before the kite stops.

invisible 05-07-2007 01:34 PM

Hey Bryan did the screw come out of the bar end? How in the world did it come apart?

I once tried to cut down a best bar and even with after removing the screw I couldn't get the bar ends off... even with a hammer.

I should have a good look at my bar and make sure it's tight.

E-Bone 05-07-2007 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invisible (Post 18959)
Everyone helps whenever they can. I can't even tell you how many times I've done the 100 yard sprint.

I think that is a good estimate of what happens around here. People pitch in because they are cool. I've argued on this forum that kiters do not have a duty, as in a legal obligation, to help other kiters in trouble unless we have a special relationship such as teacher/student, but that does mean I won't jump to help out when the shit hits the fan.

I might not always help, though, if I don't think I can or should cash the check.

Any suggestion that most kiters around here won't do anything to help others is going to stir up a lot of people because it is simply not true. Every time someone launches or lands your kite, grabs you by the back of the harness during a powered launch, retrieves a board, etc., a gratuity is getting thrown your way.

I don't have any obligation to lauch or land anyone's kite (and it is not what I want to do when I am trying to rig, either), but I do it all day long and so does almost everyone else around here. A lot of people have helped me out before, with launches and rescues, but aside from when I was actually taking a lesson, I can't remember thinking that anybody owed me anything when I was neck-deep in a kiteboarding cesspool of my own making, even though I do remember screaming, more than once, "[insert name here], grab the f*ck*ng kite!"

When bad shit happens, it can be tempting to look at the last moment of the kitemare to assign blame. Here, it is a good example--if only someone would have decided to grab the kite, it would not have been in the trees. Maybe so. Maybe the outcome would have been worse. But that does not take into account prior decisions that were made by Bryan (Bryan decided to ride in the first place, moreover decided to ride in heavy wind, rode with an older bar that has likely been used a lot in the last 1 to 1.5 years and could have been replaced before today's session, and that even different decisions by Bryan once the failure occurred might have led to a better result).

Am I saying that in the end, this is all on Bryan? Yes.

Note that I am not calling Bryan out or criticizing his kiting actions. He's been riding for a while now and has been a solid citizen. Had I shown up today and this had happened to me with a one year old Ion bar (and I have and use several), my analysis would be the same. The risks and rewards of kiting are personal to each kiter and, in the end, it is up to each kiter to control his or her kite. Period. Bryan deserves credit for putting his experience up here so others can learn from it. Bryan already qualified his earlier statements regarding a lack of assistance from others by noting that he was jacked up by the kitemare when he made those comments.

I am responsible for the outcome when I lauch a kite. When I ride, I assume the risk to get the reward. When the session works out great, I get the stoke. When the session sucks, I get the ass-beating and the blame. It is not fair to point at others and demand that someone else take the blame for the bad outcome. Even if 50 people are nearby, it is a lonely moment when you are getting worked and it hits home with amazing clarity that if you can't solve the problem, no one else will.

This is an important concept for new kiters around here to take to heart. It is up to you and no one else to make certain that you get your kite launched and landed without injuring yourself or anyone else, even if something does not proceed according to plan.

Don't ever rely on being able to get help if something goes wrong. It's better to figure out before you launch that you are on your own.

bryanleighty 05-07-2007 02:45 PM

perfectly stated Ebone.

and i will post photos of bar when i get them. i am not sure what happened exactly, but i did get a good look at the bar while i was dealing with trying to keep the kite from looping.. looked like the endcap came off.. dont think the bar broke... but i did notice that it wasnt just a line break... looked like the entire right side cap was missing. will need to look closer.

i just ordered a new 45cm 2007 best bar from extreme kites. Daryl said to get photos of the bar and maybe Best will take care of it.. maybe not. i've been told by a couple experienced people to replace bar and harness every year.. and guess what.. in the past 30 days my bar and harness (both just a while past their year-old mark) bit the dust.

Ocean Rodeo took care and sent me a brand new harness .... maybe best will do the same, but I am not going to be upset if they dont. its at least 14 months old.

we will see.

kite-4-life 12-02-2015 03:26 PM

2015 Update
I came across this thread and thought it was worth bumping back into existence, as it has some good info about a kitemare on one of our more popular spots.
Nothing has changed much at the Skyway, especially the risks, but it somehow went from an intermediate riding spot for experienced riders, to a hub for lessons and gear sales. It is better in some regards, and far worse in others. To this point, we've done nothing to try to preserve it.
Its a shame that no one discusses anything like this anymore, because threads like this are both helpful, and humbling to anyone who reads it.

Happy Kiting!


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