another hobie day
 

another sketchy day at Hobie. West winds ranging from 6-20 knots...maybe gusts a bit higher.

the final count was 3 kites in the seaquarium wall. Each incident happened when the rider cut upwind too close to the wall and either botched a manuever or hit a lull. End result each time was kite in the water, and little distance to work with to relaunch or pull in for a self-rescue. Totally avoidable by staying farther upwind of the wall.

later in the day 3 riders were doing some freestyle very close to shore...airs, kite-loops etc... One rider on a foil kite stalled on the landing, tried to recover but was forced to release from the kite as a gust hit him. Kite went up, up and away, but snagged a palm and started looping and then crashed down hard in the parking lot. Not sure about injuries. Todd went down to check it out.

NOW, as if this wasn't enough. One of the original 3 riders who had witnessed the accident began pulling shoreside tricks again!

By this point I was pretty blown away by the lack of judgment, and decided to go down and take video. Judge for yourself, but to me this is as dumb as it gets for a clearly talented rider.

We keep asking why beginner/intermediate riders do stupid things, especially at Hobie? Well for me this is the answer....if our instructors, locals and overall experienced riders are doing stupid things, everybody else will follow their lead.

(Built some awareness, now let's work on solutions. These problems are limited to Ft. Lauderdale but by some accounts occur in spots worldwide. Some ideas are in motion on how to better manage things. So have at it, our sport and your ability to pursue may be riding on how we do.)

lets try to stop this before some kid/mother/grandmother/friend gets killed...if you see something stupid taking place, call them out.

~patrick

Astounding, the guy is dealing with gusts and lulls rides within five feet upwind of that woman on a shallow sand bar. Then he throws a kiteloop over people's heads on the beach, landing in inches of water. Amazing indifference to the safety of others, much less yourself. Could see this guy going to jail in some other countries or even in this one if someone gets hurt. A dozen local kiters should have been having a serious heart to heart with this guy. Most of us realize what can happen in something like this, right? The water is so shallow, strike bottom and off he goes at light speed into the people, timber posts and parked cars. Or, he just screws up, the wind gusts, something breaks, he hits someone, etc. etc.. Luck doesn't last forever, or even much more than a few weeks at this launch.

astounding.

and do you mean that NOBODY there is willing to intervene?

wait a second... you called him a local. i think that we know who this is and he is not a Miami local. in hearing about all of the issues, i think Miami can thank Ft. Lauderdale for sending down some great kite ambassadors that are threatening our access.

i didn't see the accidents, but the video is pretty clear. what the video didn't show is the hundreds of people in the water and on the beach with their kids. the funny thing is that the conditions were far better out on the sand bar.

come on boys, we have all seen enough dangle kite loops. take it off shore until you learn a new trick and show it too us later.

I was thinking it would be good for a dozen local kiters to talk with the guy whoever he is. Maybe Neil knows the guy, looks like he was on a SS kite.

I know folks just want to kite and probably don't want to get involved. Still ... someone gets slashed by lines, someone's child, mother or as Patrick pointed out. Even more likely, who wants to volunteer their car get get some major front end work, smashed windshield, hood with an inbound kiter? It's happened before.

Is there enough interest at Hobie, really all our launches wherever they may be in the State for a bunch of guys to stop what they are doing long enough to talk some sense to someone like this? If a guy was riding a dirt bike like this through your neighborhood, you would just let him do it? It isn't someone else's job, it's our job, like it or not. If you see something like this, you should want to get involved, if for no other reason than preservation of your ability to ride.

So, how about it, would people get involved or just blow it off?

I was at Hobie yesterday. Man, what an awesome day for kiting. After 3:00 we had 20+, sunny, and "warm" weather for the first time in a long long mediocre season here.

To everyone who was out on the sandbar yesterday, props. It was a blast riding out there with everyone pushing themselves in the huge flatwater paradise. I saw some insane stuff being thrown down out there, wow.

I'm not sure why anyone stayed near the shore? The wind was flukier, it wasn't as flat, and there wasn't any room to push yourself because if you missed the bar on a pass it would be in the trees immediately. Am I missing something?

sad
 

One of the things , I find really disturbing is that the guy is not even a beginner , so he can not even claim ignorance regarding his behaviour,he just could not care ,all he wanted to do was show off, there were also a lot of other riders that should not have been riding where they were from what I could see on the video. I think it is great that this video was posted so we can at least put faces to the guys that are going to ruin access at certain spots for us,I do not ride there,but a bad accident there can definately affect other launch sites.

Greg

FYI, this is "a". He does not ride for Slingshot, he is not from Ft. Lauderdale. He has been a rider for x ago, then y then z now nobody, I wonder why???????????

Sorry Neil for calling out Ft. Lauderdale. I guess that the other guy was from around there. Not sure, but I'd bet that he got the heck scared out of him when he ditched his foil after nearly killing himself and at least 5 others. I hear that he's a pretty nice guy and is probably at home feeling stupid. As for "b", he's a good guy, but should know better. I hope he'll respect our riding area a bit more in the future. I know that you more than most have had to deal with riders like this when trying to preserve access. It's not easy.

Good seeing you in Tampa. As it stands, it looks like we would have been better off staying on this coast for the weekend!

I vote that we implement an IQ test for existing and new riders. The problems with "a" and "b" yesterday would have never happened because they would have never passed the test. Seriously, how many frickin' times do we have to write about this?

NO KITING INSIDE THE SWIM BUOYS AT HOBIE BEACH!!

This isn't even a locals issue, you shouldn't ride like that at any location. Props to Patrick for catching it on video. I watched both of those two cracking up 10 feet from the "beach" inside of an exposed sandbar no less... DUH. I drove down to see who died after "b"'s incident, but he had already packed up. Apparently he released his kite before "final" impact and miraculously, nobody was injured.

There were at least three lessons inside the swim buoys as well. That's brilliant too. The sad fact is that the other concessionaires at this location (windsurfing, catamarins, and SUP) have stuck their necks out for the kiters because they don't want regulation coming down on their sports if heavy regulation is imposed on the kiting. I somehow doubt that they will continue to support us after we continue to disregard any standard of safety at this spot, as well as to endanger their patrons.

individual bans
 

We have been fighting this sort of behaviour for years and nothing seems to stop it. It would be great if there was some way to get individuals who are reckless and a danger to the sport and the general public banned and not have the whole beach banned from kiting. Maybe if the locals at the trouble spots form a group / association and approach their respective town committees and get some sort of authority to call the law enforcement agencies who would then evict the rider from the location.

One problem with this would be to ensure that if there is a kite company that operates at a location, they do not abuse this system to shut out competitive brands and riders or that riders do not make personal attacks and try get someone band because they do not like them etc , one way to help avoid this would be the formation of an association or club for example "Hobie Kite Club"

As we get more kiters on the water we are going to get more new hotshots that want to be the big man on the water, and as much as we would love to just go kite and not worry about these problems, they are here and we need to put more effort in to preserve access.

Greg

Agree with all you guys. However, you're forgetting one thing. Nobody can see Mr. Beach Hero up close out on the sandbar. He doesn't really care if he can do the trick, only if the "amazed bystanders" can see him to the trick. It's called low self esteem desperately seeking the admiration of others. You saw this in first grade with the emerging class clown. Going to be hard to cure 20+ years of behavior with a stern talking to. But peer pressure is the only way to go. Post a picture of him on the beach labeled "unsafe kiter please avoid". He'll get the picture. No pun intended.

It's pure and simple "Look at me". Locals need to let him know they saw him and tell him and they are not impressed. Ask him to "STOP" nice the first time. Don't assume that he takes the time to read this forum. Hate to see you guys loose a spot down south, as there are so few left to ride at. Posting video is the first step to letting these starved ego's know that it is not cool, is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated, as much as surfing has become ugly in places we need to take a page from there book in these cases. It has to be taken up face to face, really close face to face. This is like watching a kid play with a loaded gun, and your access is in the room with him. Just one persons opinion.

Why is everyone saying it is not a local problem? I have seen plenty of locals inside the swim buoy. I understand that this guy throwing kiteloops over people's heads is taking it to the next levels, but I am sure there were plenty of locals riding inside the buoys, just in a slightly less dangerous manor. Also it is a local problem cause if the "non Miami natives" show up and shut it down with stupid actions, you lose the spot as well. I love to travel around Florida to kite, and one thing that is very clear is the Miami seen has more of a "Not my problem" attitude than ANY other local crew I have had the pleasure to ride with. Not saying everyone is bad, just in Tampa, St Augustine, Jacksonville, Jupiter, and even Pompano, when one person walks up to talk with a kiter, there is a pile of people behind him to enforce the severity of the issue. Most of what I see in Miami is one guy talks to a problem kiter and gets ignored. In many areas this beach enforcement is driven by the local shops and school, with support of the locals. Considering the ratio of closed to open beaches for kiting in Miami compared to other areas, I think I look at how it is handled elsewhere may not be a bad idea. I will say Matheson has got much better over the past few years. But still nothing like what you see up north. I don't want this to come off as a negative post, just trying to push some general observations. This is NOT an attack on Miami or the kite community there, just some constructive criticism. Also I would like to thank the person for posting the video, really points out the problem and gets people motivated and discussing the issues, even if the idiot (not gonna avoid a personal attack when someone is being that stupid) in it never sees it.

Who was giving lessons at Hobie?
I thought it was an accepted fact that Hobie was not suitable for teaching?
This is what should be documented and sent to the appropriate certifying organization. I have avoided Hobie for the obvious reasons plus the Keys and West Coast are so much better on a west wind. However, next time I am there I will make sure to bring a camera and document the teaching. Cause that is just plan stupid. The shops and school should be leading by example... which has not always been the case in Miami.

Ken,

Yep, there were locals in there too. The teaching thing is well documented and I'm sure that a simple search would pull up most of the info on this forum. It's generally the same crew and I doubt that many, if any are certified. You do have a good point though. Get some pics and send them into IKO and PASA. If this is against their professional guidelines they should know. Additionally, the poor person paying for the lesson wouldn't really know the danger that they are in.

Two of the guys teaching were on Best kites. One of them is surely not on the "A" list from Best and I'm sure that they have nothing to do with him, I don't know about the other, just that he teaches on a red Best. There are a ton of these "dealers" and "schools" around that operate on the fringes.

I guess it's good to give props to those that do not teach at Hobie.

Miami Kiteboarding
Wind Addict
etc. i know that there are tons more, just not sure what the school names are.

Heard some more about what went on that day. It was estimated that there were 70 kites on the water at one point. Winds were extremely gusty, typical for land shadowed winds out of westerly directions. Lots of guys were riding inside the buoys. There were lots of newbies trying to figure out how to kite in what amounted to pretty dangerous wind conditions close to shore. There were people giving lessons inside the buoys adding to the situation. It was a dense, crowed condition. Understand a foil stalled as they will do at times and wrapped another guy's lines. Another kiter went out in what amounts to a four line 20 m C kite!? Got overpowered and sent the kite shoreward. And on and on ...

For starters, we need to launch and land out near the buoys, ride out beyond them and NOT have a kite up near the beach. This alone would improve things a great deal.

There are other problems but this would be a great start getting things sorted out.

Hobie beach instructors
 

Hi Rick,

Here is a list of PASA Instructors who are legal in Florida. There are many people who have completed the course, but are not current or insured. If you have people teaching on your beach and they claim to be PASA check the web site. If they are not on it they are operating without insurance and you can have them booted from the beach.
Notice that there are NO listings for instructors in Miami. If you are teaching in Miami and are current and insured, call Chris Moore at PASA and have this list updated.

Stein Erik Gabrielsen
PASA Examiner

Laurel Kaiser Island Style Wind & Watersports
Sarasota
FL
USA
34234

Greg Meintjes Key West Kiteboarding
Key WEST
Fl
USA
33040

Steve Sipes Kiss The Sky Kiteboarding
Bradenton
FL
USA
34208
Jeremy Lund New Wave Kiteboarding
palm beach
fl
usa
33403
Kevin Wade
Key Largo
FL

33037
Brian Goldesberry Independent
Daytona /New Smyrna
FL
USA
32763
Mike Olness oTHErside boardsports
marathon
fl
usa
33050
Richard Peck Kiteboarding Sarasota
Sarasota
FL
USA
34229
Aaron Osters Marathon Florida Keys Kiteboarding LLC
Marathon
Florida
USA

I think the reason Hobie is what it is is that it is hopeless. It has gotten so out of control it is like the Mad Max movies. No body gives a shit anymore about that spot. I dont support what goes on there but it is very obvious what it has become.

I personally hope it goes away. Not a good spot for anyone...beginner or advanced. I would hope we voluntarily make it go away. It is dangerous there. Teaching is openly advertised there.

And by the way. I disagree with you Bizguru. Hobie is THE exception. It is lost and we will lose because of it. However, Crandon crew, Matheson crew, keys crew...top notch. And yes i do take it as a bit negative since this is my home turf.

Just so you know, you cant compare other beaches in Florida to Miami. It is so tightly regulated here because beaches=money=tourists...more so than anywhere. 60% (im guessing) of our bayshore is protected mangroves. Miami is a very difficult access spot. We have lost a few beaches but there are many other reasons behind. If your not local, PM me anytime and we can ride. I love to ride all over the Keys as well and Im not limited to beach launches.

PASA left Greg Meintjes off the list, slow accounting to be sure. Just put him in.


Wow, that is a short list. Thanks for posting it Stein, had no idea how many instructors have been certified but don't have insurance. There are a lot that aren't current and uninsured.

Kent talked years ago about a voluntary ban at Hobie for the reasons you cite. It made sense then, still does particularly with the wild west indifference that has been so characteristic of the place almost since the start.

I tried to promote sea taxi runs out to Biscayne Bay for the last several years. There are so few easily accessible public launches in Miami. It just hasn't taken off for a variety of reasons. Too bad as the shore side list is still shrinking. When conditions are good out there, they're great and right in Miami. People just don't get it, maybe someday they will.

Just to be clear I'm not the Chris Moore he is referring too. I get a lot of calls and people complaining that think I'm passing myself off as PASA certified. It's the other bro, I'm the one being tazed. :)

Stilts taxi runs havn't taken off becuase who can afford to do it with the current prices. Given this year it would cost a small fortune.

In the Keys its $20. Thats affordable.

PASA list
 

With regards to the list of instructors, I would not pay much attention to it, we all know how bad PASA is when it comes to Admin etc, I paid the bill they sent me and renewed my insurance ,but I do not see my school up there .

Greg

I am still surprised there is not an affordable taxi in Miami, even $40 would be reasonable and with minimal advertising you should be able to fill boats. In this economy no one can run a boat with a captain for $480 per day?

Hobie beach
 

Good job to the people that are concerned about the hot dogging on Hobie beach. I am surprised that most kiters do not get involved in policing the situation. We intervened a few times and got nothing but grief and frowns. Civility and manners are forgotten by a few reflecting on all the other kiters that stayed outside buoys.

Instructors teaching at Hobie in on shore conditions are to be blamed as well.

Rick,

To be clear, I am not of the opinion that we need to agree to ban hobie any longer. I really like to ride this place. It offers access to 5-6 great riding spots that are fantastic.

I will propose that there should be no "feet in the staps" inside the buoys. I.e. at low tide riders should walk to the buoys before getting on there boards, or at high tide they should body drag to the buoys before "boarding". This is the easiest way to police and have it enforced. This would allow open access and would probably discourage the riding behavior that we saw on the weekend.

Thanks for the clarification Kent and your help over the years Ovidio. I totally agree, I think more self-policing among kiters in general is what it will take to try to preserve this launch. What about doing assisted launches and landing as close to the buoys as the water depth will allow? Having kites up near the beach has preceded all the accidents that come to mind over the years.

This may seem like an ax job but the reality is there have been tons of guys doing the same thing for a very long time. "a" just was caught on video and "b"'s kite going down came out at the same time. There have been dozens, hundreds of other cases over about ten years here.

This is a long term problem, guys with the skill and knowledge to stay outside but may not, compounded by all the newbies that shouldn't be there in those conditions made still worse by instructors giving lessons in the middle of all of this.

We need to get this situation under control to try to keep this place open. These same riding issues cause problems at other spots as well to varying degrees.

what i learned
 

There are two lessons I am taking away from this situation

1.) I like Kent's rule. "No feet in the straps" inside the buoys. Period! I will spread the word as I will likely be riding at Hobie a lot over the next month.

2.) I am going to get way more involved on the beach while I am there. The mistake I made in all of this is not walking over and challenging this behavior. Next time, I will.

it's time to get pro-active, and since there is a good chance I will be working at RSMAS and the AOML Lab, I really, REALLY want Hobie to stay open for kiting.

time to be motivated

-patrick

People teaching at Hobie should never have started, there are several "so called" schools that teach here......I wonder if this kid understands the dangers? On this day if this child was injured the so called qualified and professional Instructor would be jailed under the Child Protection Law!!!!! People step it up!!!!



http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...id=83535201089

In case folks missed it, it looks like the authorities are banning kiting along all of Rickenbacker Causeway. Once the signs are up which are being prepared, enforcement through deputies and the marine patrol is to start.

We need to step up to preserve access at contested launches through self-policing. If you don't have problems at your launch, great. If you do, kiters need to band together to try to keep things sane and safe of the beach avoiding complaints and threats to access.

More at:
http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=9434

so it that a 10 year old being taught by 12 kite at Hobie?

Seriously WTF are people thinking?

I am gonna start calling names, so if this is not 12 kite, please defend yourself, cause in 24 hours if anyone googles your name they are gonna find various post about your teaching practices.

So Rick,

Hobie is then banned for sure?

I only wish we would have done it ourselves. Its never good when the authorities have to do the ban.

ergh....
 

http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=9434

well this totally sucks

It is looking pretty grim, they've made up their minds to ban it. You can see the language in their post at: http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=9434

A voluntary ban would be pretty daunting, how do we do it? We may try to negotiate something with the authority if they are willing to listen. From comments received at two meetings over the last five years, it could be a real push to reverse this thing.

If it is possible to negotiate a conditional ban reversal, it seems unlikely at present, the riding inside the buoys would have to stop entirely at a minimum, with no exceptions. Been asking people to do this for so long, they just blow it off. Congrats, you finally made your point, and lost access.

that skinny runt needs sorting, you regulate your spot like the ol boy surfers, you behave or get beat down period :confused:

Who exactly are the "local kiters" they consulted with on this matter.

Is it true there was also a confrontation with law enforcement?

Look at this from almost nine years ago, Sep 12, 2001. Would have been great if we picked up on some of this.

From: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/FKSA/message/130

Steve,

The current ban extends to the entire area of Crandon Park on the east side
of Key Biscayne and the launch to the north of that area off Virginia Key
Beach. Bans are currently being considered for the area to the south of
Rickenbacker Cswy, i.e. Hobie and Windsurfer Beaches largely because of a
kite that was allowed to fly across traffic on the Causeway and other past
antics. We are supposed to have moderate to high winds out of the SW this
weekend. These winds are ideal for Hobie Beach. Considering past behavior,
kitesurfing at speed inside the swimming buoys, losing control and letting go
of kites with the onshore wind, we could well have a ban on the Causeway in a
few days.

To try to avoid this ban, I would suggest the following:

1. Everybody uses kite leashes and follow the rest of the kitesurfing
guidelines.

2. Kites are launched and landed with assistance near the swim buoys, about
150 feet offshore. No kites are to be in the air inside of that area.

3. No kitesurfing inside the swim buoys. This last guideline is probably
backed up by a county ordnance anyway.

4. Only intermedite to advanced kitesurfers should kitesurf off this area.

If we want to keep the only decent launch for SW to W winds south of Ponce
Inlet, we had better take charge of the situation and act carefully and
responsibly. Otherwise, bring on the bans!

As to other areas to kitesurf off Miami. I will post alternate spots and
guidelines following Saturday's meeting at Crandon Park.

Good luck,
Rick

<<
RICK...
the ban on crandon..does it apply to the south side of the causeway just
west of the seaquarium? or is it further into the park...
we are headed down their the 23rd..if the ban is all along that beach..do
you know of any alternative launch sites nearby that we can use...
thanks..and i hope you are doing great..
Steve Pere
kitesrfer@aol.com wrote: Currently, it is planned to have a short meeting
with area coordinators that
are available and other interested parties in the convention center at 9 am,
Saturday, September 22, 2001. The exact location within the Center will be
announced that morning. The meeting agenda will include meeting area
coordinators in attendance, review of FKA goals and methods, seeking
membership and related matters.

Thanks,
Rick Iossi
>>

thanks guys!

I shouldn't write the rest of what I really feel like writing........................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................

Todd was at Hobie that day as well, although he was way offshore on the sand bar where everyone else should have been. He posted the following:

"I would like to say that I was at Hobie Beach that day and watched "a" and "b" riding next to the beach, kitelooping, etc - basically riding like neanderthals. If this had been the first incident at Hobie Beach, then I doubt the authorities would have instituted the ban. The fact that there have been consistent problems at this location required intervention by local authorities, it's the only riding location in SE Florida for SW to W winds (and thus people like "a" and "b" will drive from other counties to ride there), and there are no posted rules or warnings, the ban isn't a surprise to me.

I agree that "a" and "b" were a big part of the problem this weekend, but there were plenty of other riders breaking the law or just plain riding stupidly. I'm by no means sticking up for them, but I am saying that it was a matter of time before this beach was closed because it was totally out of control. There are swim buoys at this location and we are obviously not allowed to ride inside the swim buoys just like anywhere else in Florida. Also, there were at least three lessons being taught inside the swim buoys which is just downright dangerous for the students that put their lives in the hands of these paid professionals. There is a highway less than 200 feet from the water's edge and the wind was side-on shore and about 5 to 20 mph in the morning increasing the 20+ in the afternoon. West winds are always very gusty and dangerous in Miami. In clear skies, we often see gusts in excess of 20 knots over the average wind speed. My point is that rather than making this a witch hunt, there is something that can be learned here.

Here is what I have learned from this situation:
1/ If you are a local at a spot and there is someone riding like an idiot, protect your riding spot - say something. If they don't listen, call the police if you feel that they are either endangering lives or are going to cause a ban to the spot. It's a lot easier to keep a spot open than to try to get one reopened. I wish I had done more over the years to help save this spot. Instead, I stopped riding there for two years and just recently have been going back.
2/ Just because a rider is very experienced and has been doing this for a long time doesn't mean they are smart or know how to reason. Clearly this has been the case at nearly all beach closures in Miami spanning from Crandon Park to Virginia Key and now to Hobie Beach/Rickenbacher Causeway with "a" and "b". Be careful who you choose to look up to in this sport. Riders who think they are cool are often the lame ones.
3/ The people that may seem the most obviously connected to a banning like at Hobie Beach generally are not fully to blame. In this case, there have been plenty of people that knowingly rode wrecklessly over the years because they had a "right" to do so. Now they have the "right" to play Xbox on a windy SW wind, or pay Christophe at Miami Kiteboarding whatever he charges for his water taxi service to go to Stiltsville or West Point to kite (these places are only accessible by boat and work well for SW-NW winds).
4/ Beginners rarely are to blame for beach closures. Generally, people point the fingers at beginners because they tend to get in the way while they are building their skills. However, I don't know of any instances where a beginner has caused a beach to be closed to kiting. If they are with an instructor, then they are the instructor's responsibility and you should be pointing the finger at the instructor if you see bad behavior.
5/ Casual observers that don't understand the danger of kiteboarding and often reward bad behavior. Of course if you don't understand that your kid could be decapitated, or someone's loose kite could pick you up by the chin and throw you onto a four lane highway, you would be thrilled to see someone doing tricks right up at the beach. Observers were seen clapping, fist pumping and whistling on Sunday not knowing that they were one butt check away from getting maimed.
6/ Just because someone is a certified instructor, that doesn't make them right. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion if you see inappropriate behavior by an instructor. Remember that organizations like PASA and IKO don't need bad press and you are doing them a favor if you consistently observe instances of inappropriate instruction and decide to inform them.
7/ If your riding spot requires rules, see if you can have them posted on a sign if possible, temporary sign, and/or if local schools and retailers will post rules in their facilities. Most importantly, spread the word. We have a lot of visitors in Miami and it's a constant job to let visitors and tourists know about the local rules. I welcome all visitors, but there are rules - no biggie. Also, inform the local authorities of the rules and have THEM enforce the rules.

Get organized and think about what will happen to your own kiting spots as the kiting population grows..."

Not sure what kiters were consulted previously, but we're trying to have discussions with authorities now.

Yes, it is my understanding there were incidents, frustrating deputies and inspectors with the authority in the past, more than once. I haven't been there during these incidents and so can't say with certainty who did what. This is a real bad way to try to protect your privilege to do anything. Kiters have been arrested before for what has been reported. It isn't that hard if the authorities set their mind to it. We would do well to spare them and ourselves this exercise in disrespect and stupidity on the part of the kiter. This is yet another area where peer pressure is needed to keep things sane and respectful. 99% percent of kiters won't do this, why allow yourselves to be represented badly by those that do? Get involved.