Setting up a 5th line for a bridled SLE kite?
 

I know some of you have done it.. can we get some photos??.. assume that I could just run a Q line to the center of my waroo and have the line go thru the bar and clip to that.

is it that simple?

any other tried and tested methods.

thanks!

I did some research on this and heard that it worked pretty well... BUT there are some disadvantages. If you accidentally pull on that line (which unhooked for example) the kite could invert. Also, the waroo is not designed to be loaded at that spot... and the additional drag in heavy winds may also lead to inversion.

Also, unless you have a stopper set on the 5th line, the kite will fly upside down (probably able to pull you but not with any real power).

Now for facts based on experience? I have none... I haven't tried it yet. I have been thinking about it though.

Thats how I set up all my kites.. including bows. It works great and helps with light wind relaunch.
If we REALLY want to make our beaches safer then 5th lines should be MANDATORY on all kites. Bows may have alot of range but they are more dangerous because they cause inexperienced riders to be over confident and they also can fail. Ask Gabe what it feels like to be on a 15 bow in 30 knots and have a front line break.

Cool. I used 5th lines on all of my C kites. When I switched to bows I knew there was a problem... no immediate kill switch unless you want tangled lines every time you miss the bar.

I may give this a shot on my waroo.

5th lines rock!

probably a good idea on the waroo... it's not designed for load in the center of the LE.

After Gabe's mishap at the Skyway, I too am interested in 5th line type safety. I learned on 4 and 5 line kites, but like many moved to SLE kites for there performance qualities, wind range, relaunch, ect. We discussed this issue in great detail at the PASA instructor clinic in Hatteras and it was agreed that this is an issue with safety and being overlooked by kite companies. The safety systems work when all is normal, but the problem is you need them to work when all hell breaks loose. For many of the SLE's on the market, it means chucking your kite and hoping it lands somewhere without consequence.

I am very excited about the SS Rev. They have been quite innovative over the years, so they may still have some fight left in them. If I can fly a kite with the range of an SLE, speed and feel of a C, and safety of a 5th line, then I am all about it.

I hope more companies will address this issue and realize that there is still much work to be done in keeping this sport as safe as possible. Think of all the issues over the past month with kites on the highway that may have been avoided with better designed safety systems on SLE's. Slingshot has set the bar many times in the past, and they really may be on to something for the future of kiting. With most things, it will be up to the kiter's to decide where the market is headed.

One thing I am concerned about with a 5th line on a waroo, is that once the kite inverts (release on the 5th line), how does it behave when you power it back up? There's a good posibility the rear lines will tangle on the trailing edge of the wing tips.

Fortunately you could just release to the 5th line again.

Maybe I'll try this out and give you guys a report. I 'll just hook up my 5 line C kite bar as a quick test.

im sure your aware of this already but there will be a big difference in you testing it and in real life, since in real life its going to be atleast 25-40knots that you woud be releasing it in.....

Are you suggesting I shouldn't test it at all, or that I should test it in 40 knots?

just remember that the results you get in normally powered situations wont resemble what you get in overpowered conditions....

Once again........ 5th lines work and save lives. Whether it be a C, Bow, Or hybrid. If you hook it up correctly then you will never go back to 4 lines.
You can discuss all the different possibilities til the wind blows but I've ridden 5th on C's, bow's and Hybrids for 3 years with no problems. Ya'll know how I ride so if it stands up to my crazy sh*t then it will work for almost any rider.
IT SHOULD BE MANDATORY IN PINELLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(4 line bows and hybrids will get someone killed here this year once the wind really picks up)

PS... Inferno: I got knocked unconscious in 35-40 knots last season doing a double back double kiteloop. The only thing that saved my life was the 5th line. When I came too it was sitting there waiting for me and not pulling at all. It DOES work!!!!

i have no doubt it will work, my only concern is that if you dont have a stopper placed on the fifth line in the right spot, then the bar will slide far enough so that when you try to pull it back the rear line may end up pulling the kite into inversion (hard to explain in writing) and this could also cause a bridle wrapping on the wing tip......

i just dont want any newer riders to think its as easy as adding a fifth line to a bow and attatching your leash to it.... thats all
(i personally switched back to C-Kites for there 5th line safety)

btw Jay what kite did you try that on..... i just got an 07 8m torch that im dying to try in 35+

Yeah if you are going to rig a 5th line, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. The right way is to know where to set the stopper ball... it's different for each kite, and to make the stopper ball adjustable. A double loop through an orange ball will work if you are using Q line. i used 5th lines on all my kites until I switched to bows.

Safety systems haven't received enough attention in the kiting industry, I agree. It almost seems like an after thought for some companies. Not bashing Best, but as one single example, that velcro attachment on the O-shit could have a warning to detach before use or something. They aren't the only ones, I am just using them as an example.
I also agree the current bow/hybrids can be more dangerous than C-kites with 5th lines when things go really bad.

I hate rigging a 5th line for a bunch of reasons, but would be interested in doing it for safety reasons, possibly.

How much more safety would a fifth line represent over a flag out system using one of the front lines? Some of the bows allow for attachment on one front line. I have modified my kites to use this approach. I am curious to hear some inputs.

5th line drops the kite instantly without tangles. It's not necessarily safer or less safe than a flag out safety, but it does make it possible to relaunch the kite. I started using 5th lines after I did the swim in heavy surf a few times because I accidentally unhooked and the kite crashed with lines all twisted and I was unable to relaunch.

5th line has the advantage that you can pull in 2 feet of it to fully depower a C kite... on a waroo however we can call it the manual inversion handle.

nice... :rolleyes:

Inferno.. I was on a 7m Fuel. Be careful trying anything in over 30 knots. It can really hurt!

Tom, Have you tried using a "V" 5th line bridle? Have Keith make some attachment points on the front about 3 feet apart off center and bring the lines down 6 feet to a v then attach 5th line. This helped with my wipika and kept it from inverting

im thinking your best bet is to copy the 07 instinct.... about 5ft down the 5th line is another line that connects about half way down the center strut.... this makes inversion not possible... just ask scott

I am still curious about the front line v. the 5th line flagout on a hybrid.
I am honestly clueless about the difference and hoping for input on this.

Actually Danny, the Instinct relies on front line flagout, even though it has a fifth line. It's also has a "span line" or anti-inversion line attached to the fifth line. This span line runs from one wing tip to the other, near the trailing edge.
The fifth line doe split off like you mentioned to form a "tpripod" at the LE, with three points of attachment. This is primarily to allow the 5th line to be used to trim the angle of attack of the kite effectively using the 5th line trimming system. If it didn't split off, it'd probably just fold the LE.
To my knowledge, it's the only kite that uses this trimming system (with 3 points of attachment to avoid the LE from "folding") and also the only one with the the span lines to help to stop inversions.
It makes the kite look very weird and most people look at the kite and then never want to ride it, 'cuz it's different :)

Ozone riders are notorious for mods, and some did modify 06 kites for 5th line flagout.
Interestingly enough, the first year of the Ozone (06), it had neither front line nor 5th line flag out systems.
Again, not picking on one brand, could pick on them all... this is another example of "shit hits the fan safety" kinda being overlooked until riders spoke up and Ozone is very safety conscious, imo.
Once riders spoke out, a 5th line flag out kit was offered.
I did the front line flag mod on my 06 and Ozone incorporated that mod on their 07s.
I am trying to figure out why they went front line instead of 5th line for flagout.

I haven't been in any thing outrageous on any hybrid or the Instinct (Instinct in my mind is a highly adjustable 5th line C kite with a very simple bridle) yet, hence part of my ignorance as to what would happen in say 50 knots if I flagged the kite out to one of the front lines.

Any one can comment on what will be a good SLE with 5th line option? or an SLE that could be modified to use a 5th line?

Daniel

The first one that comes to mind is the Flexifoil Ion2.
Awesome kite. I doubt it's the only one, but it was the first to come to mind.

That is the system the North Rebel 08 has. Is a V fifth line bridle. I flew Cornel's Rebel this past week and really like that kite. I'm also a big fan of 5th lines mainly for safety reasons. I feel safer and from experience that additional line has helped me many times in different situations. I remember once when I was riding at Picnic Island and wind picked up maybe to 25 knots and I was flying my old "Machine". There was no people at the beach, so I self landed the kite just by unhooking and letting go the bar. Like Jayson has said it is a system that save lives.

Cornel let me ride that Rebel. It was very nice.
I really liked the bar, 5th line system, and the ironheart QR system.
It's interesting how some really good kites never get much market penetration/exposure in some areas and a lot in others.
In other words, worldwide that's a very popular kite, but I think Cornel is the only local to have a Rebel. (maybe another person does and I missed seeing it)

I don't know of another Local that owns a Rebel. I've seen a couple of people that own Vegas. Like Scott mentioned there are kites that seemed to be popular in some places but not in others. Also I haven't seen any Airush here.

are there any locals with the new rhino's?

I had last years vegas, great flying kites however would never buy another north because they had bad customer service, took them the better part of 3 months of the kite sitting in norths warehouse to replace a defective 2 pump bladder system that had failed on me 2 times about a month apart. sold them both and got cabrinha. All kites are great but its really the customer service that sells kites.

I agree Sam. It's going to come down to C.S.

I now make most of my decisions about kites around the warranty reputation and customer service reputation of the company.

I would rather buy a kite that is "almost as good" as the "absolute best kite available" with a damn good backup plan (the company's support). I learned pretty quickly while at EK that some companies give lip service while other's give real customer service.

You are right, most kites these days are pretty good. I think the customer support we get is going to be the difference between a successful company and a one season wonder. It's amazing how many companies are making kites at the moment, isn't it?!

I wonder how many there will be in 3 to 5 years?
I can't imagine it still being as high as now. Mainly because wakeboarding and windsurfing have much fewer (don't they... maybe I am wrong).

Anyway, interesting stuff to me. A little microcosm of marketing/business to watch change over time.
Now that it is main stream and hitting critical mass, it is a huge curiosity to me to watch how different brands market and stuff.