chris moore, WTF dude?

[bayflite]

who the f#*k do you think you are?
last night i was going through your "safety" section concerning the race and saw this:

There are buoys all along the coast, but the fastest lines are going to be inside these buoys. It is fair game to ride inside of them, but one must keep an eye out for the occasional swimmer or surfer that may be in the water.-chris moore


occasional swimmer/surfer?
trust me dude, with all the bad weather lately and spring break upon us, the swim zones will have more than the occasional swimmer/surfer today.

fair game to ride inside the buoys?
mother f'ker!!!

you better hope nothin happens in the SZ's out there today.
cuz it's on your head buddy.

it's unbelievable to me that not one race organizer bothered to point out this major lapse in judgment.
probably too f#*king busy setting up their precious f#*king demo day.
F#*king priceless man.

[uchuche]

I guess I don't see where 70 kiters ripping through the swim zone is a problem :confused: It's not like anyone would notice.

[robertovillate]

bayflite,

Good that you caught this, and you have reason to be upset...but I am certain Chris would not have ignored this issue had it been brought to him before race day.

I'm not involved with this event, however I would like to believe this was an unintentional error. I am sure Chris Moore and others involved are trying to do a good job and promote acceptable race standards. I sent a PM to Chris over a week ago with some suggestions/concerns and he immediately adopted and coordinated as appropriate.

It is too bad this was not caught earlier. Perhaps next time these notices should be generated much earlier so people can proof-read and catch the inevitable gaff. I am sure it's a bit embarassing to have let this slip thru the cracks, but nobody is perfect - and thankfully there was probably no harm done today since the race probably never happened.

While it's pretty obvious why you are upset and that it is commonly unacceptable to rip thru the swim zone it's hard to enforce this sort of thing on a massive downwinder...unless you set up some specific turning marks that require all riders to head off-shore a bit to put some gauge between the race course and shoreline. If people round the proper marks and try to return close to shore they would surely lose the race by sailing a longer course...but then you also have to station an observer to verify everyone rounding properly...tough to do in heavy air and seas. So it will still probably boil down to individual integrity to some degree. But sending the fleet offshore a ways might make it obvious who is not racing the proper course, which would result in DQ.

(don't taze me bro! :cool:)

hopefully we have some better wind tomorrow

cheers

[Steve-O]

This thread has some important info left out IMO.


At no time should kites be flying over the beach during the race. Race officials will be scattered throughout the course to monitor this all important rule. With the onshore winds that are expected, this rule can easily be the demise of the challenge. Riders that break this rule will be disqualified.

There are buoys all along the coast, but the fastest lines are going to be inside these buoys. It is fair game to ride inside of them, but one must keep an eye out for the occasional swimmer or surfer that may be in the water. Please keep in mind that the buoys south of John's Pass are designated swim areas and riders must begin to stay outside of those buoys until the finish line.


The buoys north of John's pass are no wake zones for boater's. The maritime rules for the "no wake" buoys are gray at best.

The buoys south of John's pass are swim zones which the rules recognize.

Furthermore, the beaches were packed today but I saw no one in the water swimming except for a few surfers here and there and I was out there all day. The water was cold and beachgoers stayed out.

The best of the best were in attendance today, and no one had any concerns with the rules. It wasn't even a thought. In fact is was reminded to all riders to keep a good safe distance from shore.

Finally, let's not forget that this event is a charity fundraiser for All Children's hospital.

I will be interested to see what other opinions are out there. I am sure this will be a heated topic of discussion. I just hope we can leave out the name calling and personal attacks.

[Water Monkey]

Agreed Steve-O. I would like to thank Chris and the other organizers for all of the hard work they put in and again acknowledge that the race was for a great cause. Any other name calling and finger pointing is not necessary and definitely brings bad vibes to the great community of kiteboarders we have.

As for the race....MAN! I was the last one to de-rig as I really thought I would be able to ride by 3! Oh well, its the nature of the beast!

[Unimog Bob]

I appreciate the effort that goes into making a race, and really appreciate that the race is for a charitable reason. I think that is the most awesome choice of all made in years.

I realize this was probably discussed at the race site, but if the organizers want to insure riders don't enter the SZs south of JP, I recommend strengthening a few words on the rules page. It could just state that riders seen within swim zones south of JP will be DQ'd, much like the current wording states regarding kites seen flying over the beach. "Must begin to stay outside" is fairly vague. "DQ'd if seen within" (SZs) is pretty straightforward. ;)
If all racers follow the same rules, it shouldn't affect the outcome of the race in terms of standings, one bit. (right?)

I do think staying out of the swim zones when going real fast with 70 riders is a good idea. What we are seen doing as a group definitely reflects to the public our (entire kiting community) attitude toward the SZs. If the public (there were thousands of people at the beach yesterday) sees 70 riders going 20 to 35 mph through the SZs as a group, they obviously draw the conclusion that kiters don't respect the SZ or people in it. Granted, there were few bathers in the SZs yesterday compared to a summer day, but imo, that's not even the point. If we make a conscious effort to stay OUT... regardless of the number of bathers in the water... we leave a strong impression of respect to our fellow beach goers (many of whom are kids) ;)

As Steve-O stated, many in this race are the best of the best. I doubt they will struggle with some West Coast waves a whole 80 yards from shore for only 16 miles. These guys are use to 60 miles or more in much worse.

I assume how we are perceived as a group (for various reasons, maintaining access being one) is still important? If so, just level the race for all racers and keep them out of the SZs is my recommendation.
Stronger wording is the key. If this was already agree to anyway, strengthening the language only makes it more apparent to the public that the organizers are strongly against riders entering the SZs.

[kent]

Thanks to Chris and Steve O (and others) for all of the work that you put into this event. Too bad the wind didn't work out this time. I'm sure it will come around and we will get off a large scale DW race.

Not being from Tampa, I don't really know who Bayflight is, but I'm pretty she/ he wasn't at the event. Steve O and Chris put out the correct info at the mandatory riders meeting and even indicated that there were individuals posted along the course to insure that riders were staying out of the swim areas.

I totally understand the need to protect our access by conducting ourselves in a manner that portrays us as a positive addition to the local community. I think that Chris and Steve O are doing a great job and have done just this and helped a good cause at the same time. My guys feel so strongly about this that we hit the road at 4:30 a.m. to attend.

Next time there is an event like this in your area, I'd stop by to check it out. I can see how some wording in the written rules may have lead to confusion, but I'm not sure what the heck is in the water up there. The Tampa forum is the only one on the FKSA that individuals can't seem to communicate like humans. A simple PM would suffice and would keep people from looking like cavemen. If you can't get through on a PM then maybe take it to the forum to discuss with other local riders.

We have gotten pretty heated at times with access issues in Miami and we have all (myself included) acted like animals when communicating openly. I will say however that this has generally happened after several meetings, emails, etc., and parties felt the need to take it public for support. Good luck up there and filter your water.

See you guys on the newt NW wind day for the race.

[Whitey]

The Tampa forum is the only one on the FKSA that individuals can't seem to communicate like humans. A simple PM would suffice and would keep people from looking like cavemen. If you can't get through on a PM then maybe take it to the forum to discuss with other local riders.



Well put! I'm glad I did not post my first thoughts after reading the out of control overkill. Thank you for taking the time to put proper words to the situation.

[bayflite]

kent, steve-o, i'm really not surprised at your reaction.

remember the 16 year old kid that zapped himself and almost broke his spine @ fred howard or honeymoon i think it was?

he bought that kite @ watersports west after admitting he had no proper lessons.
not online, right over the counter.

steve-o sold him the kite before the kid even had a clue.
then steve-o basically fingers the kid as the one to blame.
irresponsible at best.
negligent at worst.
your post after the incident was quite telling.

so kent,
you're one of those "crazy kitesurfers" that crazy effin chris and others look up to.
been to cuba on your kite, been to the bahamas on your kite.

tell me man, cuz i'm dying 2 know, what purpose does 70 kiters racing inside "no wake zone" buoys of a public beach serve?

do you need to take unnecessary risks in order to feel the stoke?

"hey guys, how about crossing the mouth of tampa bay and ending the race in sarasota"

wasn't that your idea kent?

don't you have a responsibility to us paranoid kiters and our concerns? i guess it's so much easier to make a joke about stuff in the water up here in st pete.

racing inside "no wake" or "swim zone" buoys down the shoreline of public beaches does more harm than good to preserve access. sorry to disagree with you scott.

i hope my friends billy, mike , matt, alex, and all the other st pete shredderz agree that the most important thing is to continue to lead by example.
-bryan

[Unimog Bob]

racing inside "no wake" or "swim zone" buoys down the shoreline of public beaches does more harm than good to preserve access. sorry to disagree with you scott.
-bryan


Bry,

You lost me on this one. I have been, and continue to be against races being run inside the SZs. It's been a vocal issue for me for years, as you know. It actually caused me quite a bit of grief in years past sticking up for it on this forum (which ultimately proved pointless). It's the main reason I deleted my account from this forum.

Even so, after seeing the concern, I thought it might help to make a simple recommendation to make the language stronger in the rules so that it was clear (to all, including you) that no racer would be permitted in a SZ for the GCC. So I logged in as "Bob". Not sure it really matters who makes the rec, a good rec doesn't depend on a guy's name (I would hope not).

Instead of a few guys just saying something like "seems easy enough, just change a few words and stay out", it seems it's gotten nowhere but Kent throwing (more) names after Chase made the obvious statement that this was a bad idea, and now this.

I am beginning to wonder if someone hi-jacked your account as a (twisted) joke to get things stirred up.

Whatever, this forum has always proven useless to me at best, more of an annoyance than anything else. I won't make the mistake of checking it or logging on again.
(Scott)

[BSween]

I think this is a misinterpretation at best. Buoys are for more than marking just swim zones as stated earlier by Steve-O. No racing was allowed in the swim zones and riders in the SZ were to be disqualified. The buoys that riders could be inside are not swim designation buoys, they are no power boat buoys. By your rationale surfers should also stay outside the no wake buoys??? Are we allowed to ride inside crab buoys or is that off limits as well?

[C. Moore]

Brian and others,

I have linked the Official Rules from the GCKBC website. It has not been edited and it was discussed in great detail about staying out of the SZ last Saturday. I refered all riders to read the rules before sending me their signed waiver. I also think my rules need to be ammended to say "Kites are not be flown over the shore line and maintain a 300 yard safety barrier from any swimmer or surfer, riders will be DQ'd and asked to leave the event if you are caught."

http://www.gulfcoastkiteboardchallenge.com/docs/rules.pdf

Yes, the release that was posted on the forum should have been stated better or infact should have just refered to the website for the rules.

Brian,
I wished you would have contacted me prior to posting, I could of then edited or made the rules more clear. Feel free to call me to discuss, in case you forgot my number 727.507.1013

I love our beaches and our access to them. I will approach people that I know or don't know when I see something that could put that in jeopardy.

Thanks,

[tomk]

Hey Bayflight

What is with all the hate? It appears that you are using this forum to carry out some personal vendetta that you have.

[@u$tinVille0420]

Sun is shining, the weather is sweet
Make you want to move your dancing feet
To the rescue, here i am
Want you to know, y'all, where i stand

[Steve-O]

Bayflite

You need to get your facts straight.

"remember the 16 year old kid that zapped himself and almost broke his spine @ fred howard or honeymoon i think it was?

he bought that kite @ watersports west after admitting he had no proper lessons.
not online, right over the counter.

steve-o sold him the kite before the kid even had a clue.
then steve-o basically fingers the kid as the one to blame.
irresponsible at best.
negligent at worst.
your post after the incident was quite telling."

Your attacks towards me are bordering slander and I will take legal action if need be. We can argue about buoys till the cows come home, but as soon as you jeapordize my ability to make a living with false facts, expect a battle. I will be contacting my lawyer today. It will be easy as it is a family member. Nothing like some free consultation to deal with this.

The kid that got in the accident has a family that has been long time customers of the shop. They are good people and love the water. They live 5 minutes up the road. This same kid saved all his money to buy these kites before his annual summer trip up to the great lake. It was something that was in the works for years.

This wasn't just some random kid that walked in the shop, we sold him kites and we told him to go have fun. Are you kidding me? Do you really think that is what we do here? Is it possible we have had no access shut down in our area actually due to our leadership role that we have taken? Is it possible that we chase people out all the time that want to buy kites without lessons? I have said this before...call the shop and try a buy a kite. Tell us you live here and you don't plan to take lessons. See what you can buy?

For the record, John knows the family very well, and as been friends with the family for years.

His mom and him came to shop on there way to the Great Lakes for the summer. He was enrolled in a 2 week summer camp with Bronea Kiteboarding. A highly respected kiteboarding school. 2 weeks of lessons "bro". Then he rode up there all summer long almost every day. We agreed at the shop that he wasn't to use the kites until the lessons were complete and mom was in total agreement. That's how we do it here. Whatever you have fabricated in your mind, is simply false and again, bordering slander.

He came back at the end of that summer tearing it up. He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some more facts, he was at the Dunedin Causeway upwind of powerlines. How is it my fault that he showed poor judgement that we all feel aweful for? I even made the offer to the kid to call me upon his return home and I would show him some spots. He didn't take me up on it. A simple call to the shop to find out where a good place to ride that day would have avoided the disaster all together. See that's the beauty of a shop. We pick up the phone 6 days a week and answer any questions you might have. We will spend the time with you and warn you as well. The family continues to shop here, and I am proud to say the John and I personally took him back out on the water after a long recovery. The look on that kids face was incredible. It's unfortunate that you don't get to see that side of what we do. You just state useless facts, and bring others brothers down.

Talk to any of my students and they will tell you that their safety is my #1 priority. We have chased plenty of people out of the shop wanting to buy kites without lessons.

In addition I have invested $6000 of my own personal money towards a jetski in order to provide safer lessons for my students. I now have the ability to chase them down, stay right with them, and get them away from crowded riding spots. Who else in the area has made this kind of dedication to their students and to the sport?

You attack me brother, expect a fight. You are messing with my livelyhood and that is crossing the line. Your comments have nothing to do with the race but how I run business and instruct on the water.



Regarding the race, to all that have made comments, this is the first race that I have been a part of from an administration side. I made sure that respect would be given to the SZ. I even wanted to get it in writing. I have been to past races and I don't recall anything being said about SZ. That is one of the reasons I wanted to get involved. I wanted to make a better race . I recall Scott's comments last year about the SZ and wanted to incorporate them into the rules.

[pascokite]

As a beginner who doesn't know most of you it is disheartening to see this, doesn't make me jones for the karma on the beach. Bayflite the attack from an ignorant observer
's viewpoint(mine) was harsh and you got called out for it. Probably could have been done in a more effective way, Steve-o I have met you once and you were helpful and nice but you are attacking in a childish way, and not much different, everybody chill for a day, you probably agree more than you realize we all want the same shit. Peace and I wish the posts asking for help got this much attention and energy. I hope I can chill with all of you after a great session and buy you both a beer but w less staging than Obama at the white house. Sorry just felt someone should try and stop the shit.

[Steve-O]

Pasco,

Totally agree. And I went back after I cooled down and took some harsh things that I said out of my original post. It was childish and stooped to Brian's level.

I think we do all want the same thing ironically enough, it's just funny how we can get caught up in the wording of it all.

[BigR]

Please Steve , Bryan and anybody else that wants to name call or point fingers.

No more drama on here please.......keep it Kumbaya

Please use the phone to communicate respectfully with each other instead of letting us partake ,

Call me , call each other, but don't RePeat what we have gone thru in the past so many times, i'm closing this
813 786 2041 Raul

[Cborges]

"i hope my friends billy, mike , matt, alex, and all the other st pete shredderz agree that the most important thing is to continue to lead by example."

bryan

Funny how you are eager to name drop and associate yourself as being along the same caliber of rider/person "shredder".. I personally know that they would never come on the forum and act out as you did..with the name calling and huge ego...why don't you take your own advice and lead and "BE" a good example... One has to wonder what your true intentions were from your post...preserving beach access is a serious reason to have concerns, but you went about it all wrong.

[BigR]

This is not productive

[ricki]

I've been asked to move this to the Chill Zone and lock it. Done.

We won't agree over everything, that is given. One thing we need to try to do is to stick together and work out constructive compromises. Non-kiters if they have issues with us, as few as we are, will have little trouble steamrolling over us if we are divided and arguing harshly among ourselves.

Show reasonable respect and restraint and try to work it out, one on one if feasible. On here if not, but govern what you do with respect and restraint to preserve credibility and perception of a credible intent.

Besides which, you guys on the west coast have ALL THE WIND AGAIN! Enjoy some water time over there.