A "test run" for the Gulf Coast Event Anyone?

[kent]

I'm not sure of my plans or the long range forecast yet, but the current wind guru looks good for a test run. If the weather holds is anyone up for it? I was thinking totally unofficial but with a start. Everyone abiding by local rules along the way and watching for surfers, but it could be fun. It's a good chance to check your gear for the ride.

Anyone up for it?

[Russky]

Oh yeah...

[kent]

i know that there are a ton of riders in Tampa / St. Pete so I am assuming that a few would give it a go. Come on Billy P. after your Jupiter win you should be good to go! Raul, etc. wasss up? Ideally, i'd like to finish it off to Sarasota if possible, but I don't like the crossing of the mouth of Tampa Bay thing... I'd rather ride to Cuba! If anyone is into doing sarasota let me know as I wouldn't be doing this alone...

[Water Monkey]

I like the idea! Let's see what the wind does and we can definitely make something happen!

[Whitey]

Honeymoon Island to Trade Winds Resort or the other way around (+ - 30 miles), for a test run? I'm in.

Crossing the shipping channel without full on boat support is silly.

[kent]

it looks like the longest point to cross the channel is only 2.6 miles provided that you hit the key first. Am I missing something? I agree that alone it's not a good idea at all, but with a few kiters willing to tow it's just north of not a great idea. What ever the case, 30 miles would be a good hit to start. it sounds like we have a few takers. let's pump it up. thx.

[robertovillate]

Honeymoon Island to Trade Winds Resort or the other way around (+ - 30 miles), for a test run? I'm in.

Crossing the shipping channel without full on boat support is silly.


I'd agree with that. Also, crossing the mouth of the bay adds unnecessary logistical hassle. Transport takes 3 times as long, and the wind can change drastically on the other side....plus its pretty sharkey out there by Egmont Key :( Maybe better to start/finish PAG/Honeymoon or vice versa, or even go all the way to Ft Desoto. I'm up for it any day the wind is S/SW or WNW/NW - but not to race, just to play in the waves (if we can call them that :rolleyes:) I do DW's every chance I get...recently I was not let on the trolley though...wtf is with that...grumpy driver I guess. Otherwise the trolley is the sweetest deal going and a real treat for St Pete riders.

[Danimal8199]

I work until 12 Friday and have the weekend off, what day are you guys looking to roll? I'm game for it.

Danny

FRIDAY
SOUTH WINDS AROUND 20 KNOTS BECOMING WEST LATE IN THE
AFTERNOON. SEAS 4 TO 7 FEET. BAY AND INLAND WATERS CHOPPY.
A CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

FRIDAY NIGHT
NORTHWEST WINDS AROUND 15 KNOTS. SEAS 4 TO 7 FEET.
BAY AND INLAND WATERS CHOPPY IN EXPOSED AREAS. A CHANCE OF
SHOWERS.

SATURDAY
NORTHWEST WINDS 15 TO 20 KNOTS. SEAS 4 TO 6 FEET. BAY
AND INLAND WATERS CHOPPY IN EXPOSED AREAS.

[srq kiter]

Which day were they thinking to make this run??











http://www.watermankitesports.com/

[kent]

so far sat. looks the best, but we still have some time to go. we'll check tomorrow!

[BigR]

Sat lookin' good,

howzabout apollo bch to the skyway south?

solid 20 miles

[Whitey]

Apollo to Skyway South would be a reach to tight reach with the current wind direction predictions, very fast smoking run. Honeymoon to Tradewinds would be more of a true downwinder maybe even requiring a change of tack after passing Indian Rocks. I will do either one. Apollo to Skyway South on a tight reach for 20 miles would be over in less than an hour.

[BigR]

right, depends on the wind of course


To my knowledge only myself and my wife have made this run in the last 9 years, or so . both ways .
It is never a tight reach from NW, you always have to downwind back and
forth among the mangroves and open bay and sandbars anyways.

SouthShore Kitesurfing can sponsor this , we can start at the Bahia Beach TIKI BAR to the Southside Skyway.

meet back at TIKI bar after downwinder for drinks /beers /eats

Bragging rights. East Bay Champion?

Count to see who's in?

[BigR]

Still looking good on the forecast.

Who is on for the downwind run Sat.?

[Russky]

What's the transportation plan for Apollo -> SSW?

[Danimal8199]

I will be down for a gulf run, the trolley is just to easy of an option, makes the logistics that much easier and you can pull out anywhere!

Danny

[stpetesal]

I'd agree with that. Also, crossing the mouth of the bay adds unnecessary logistical hassle. Transport takes 3 times as long, and the wind can change drastically on the other side....plus its pretty sharkey out there by Egmont Key :( Maybe better to start/finish PAG/Honeymoon or vice versa, or even go all the way to Ft Desoto. I'm up for it any day the wind is S/SW or WNW/NW - but not to race, just to play in the waves (if we can call them that :rolleyes:) I do DW's every chance I get...recently I was not let on the trolley though...wtf is with that...grumpy driver I guess. Otherwise the trolley is the sweetest deal going and a real treat for St Pete riders.

What reason did the driver give you for not letting you on? My ribs are still hurt, will be down for a couple more weeks.

[Unimog Bob]

A few of us will be doing a downwinder tomorrow in the Gulf, if anyone is interested. You should come out Raul. There are waves in the Gulf. :D

Big Air Al and myself did one today. It was fricking AWESOME!!
Solid 30 knots, decent waves. The best.

Screw the trolley. They have f'd me over (and Roberto and others) a few times too many.
Bring 5 bucks each and flash it with your thumb out while at the trolley station.
We flagged down, and got a ride in the back of, a pickup within 3 minutes using this technique today. ;)

[stpetesal]

A few of us will be doing a downwinder tomorrow in the Gulf, if anyone is interested. You should come out Raul. There are waves in the Gulf. :D

Big Air Al and myself did one today. It was fricking AWESOME!!
Solid 30 knots, decent waves. The best.

Screw the trolley. They have f'd me over (and Roberto and others) a few times too many.
Bring 5 bucks each and flash it with your thumb out while at the trolley station.
We flagged down, and got a ride in the back of, a pickup within 3 minutes using this technique today. ;)

What was the reason for them not letting you guys on the trolley Scott? I called them today and they seemed to have no problem with what we have done in the past, I am sure that each dirver will have there own deal. Cornel and Dave and I had no trouble a few weeks ago, it is a very good deal when it works. I will do some more research and post later. I would agree if they do not want to take our money, well someone will.

[Unimog Bob]

No reasonable reason ever given.
I rode the trolley probably 50 times in 8 years with no probs.
Then, starting about 3 years ago, I have been denied maybe 4 times out of 12. That's way too high a percentage for me to count on the trolley.
Better have a back up plan or just a better plan A is my take.

I guess a good compromise would be to bring ten bucks (5 a piece if 2 or more) and go to the trolley pickup point. If you get picked up, great.
If denied, wave the cash while hitch hiking.

[Unimog Bob]

The forecast got changed to due West, so the trolley/DW thing may not matter for tomorrow. Upham and/or TI should be good. :D

[robertovillate]

What reason did the driver give you for not letting you on? My ribs are still hurt, will be down for a couple more weeks.


The really messed up part of the story is this:
When the bus stopped the driver looked at me like I was a Martian or something. I paid the meter and sat down with my gear. The driver goes about 5 stops and then says to me, something like "I'm not sure you can ride the bus with that stuff" and then he asks me to get off. I explained I had just taken the bus with my gear earlier THAT SAME DAY, and that I have probably done it 50 times before. But I did not want to cause a huge scene and got off. I asked him for my money back, but he gave me a "transfer ticket" which is pretty useless because it expires in 6 hrs...wtf?????

The happy ending to this: I went to the next bus stop and while sitting there waiting, some guy just pulls over out of the blue and asks if I need a lift. Turns out he is a long board paddler and gave me a ride all the way back from Reddington to PAG. That was nice!

I am thinking of making a board sock out of some very thin material that can be rolled up and stuffed into my rash guard. If they don't see a "surfboard" maybe they will be too confused to start asking questions and imposing there illogical reasoning to the situation. I'll tell him it's an art project or something.

95% of the drivers are cool and friendly, but a few of them are just grumps I guess. I wonder if there are any written regs of what you can take on the bus. It would be cool if they had a rack, like they do for bikes. Maybe something can be developed along those lines? I'll have to look at their bike rack to see what might work.

Otherwise if the trolley system becomes untenable for us down wind junkies that would be a real shame.

[Unimog Bob]

Scott L. called and spoke with the manager of PSTA today. Maybe he has some info.

I strongly encourage anyone planning on the trolley to get you back from a DW to not put any more than 75% faith in that plan.
You have a 25% chance of getting shafted, imo.

[stpetesal]

Mrs. Shirley Howard, Manager of the trolley department PSTA 727-540-1857, left me a message. Mrs. Howard said as long as you can put the put gear under the seat and or put it between you legs to secure it should be fine. Mrs. Howard in no way said kiteboarders could not use the trolley. It seems they may need to get all the drivers on the same page. I will talk with her more on Monday. I have never had a problem but have not used it as much as others, as there is obviously a problem.

[robertovillate]

Mrs. Shirley Howard, Manager of the trolley department PSTA 727-540-1857, left me a message. Mrs. Howard said as long as you can put the put gear under the seat and or put it between you legs to secure it should be fine. Mrs. Howard in no way said kiteboarders could not use the trolley. It seems they may need to get all the drivers on the same page. I will talk with her more on Monday. I have never had a problem but have not used it as much as others, as there is obviously a problem.

That's encouraging news. It would be great to hear a detailed follow up after you speak with Shirley directly. If there are seats available I hold the board between my legs. Sometimes I have to stand, holding the board.

It would be nice to get this settled and take the ambiguity out of it for the drivers and us.

Thanks for looking into it.

[Unimog Bob]

Yeah, thanks Scott.

We did two DWs today (they were awesome, btw). The trolley wasn't even considered either time.
Hate to be such a wanker on the subject, but the only way I would consider the trolley (again) is if I had that manager's word in writing, on me, so I could hand it to the couple wanker drivers that have screwed me (and others) in the recent past. Leaving someone 12 miles from their vehicle is screwing 'em pretty good.
Still, I definitely appreciate you contacting her.

[robertovillate]

Yeah, thanks Scott.

We did two DWs today (they were awesome, btw). The trolley wasn't even considered either time.
Hate to be such a wanker on the subject, but the only way I would consider the trolley (again) is if I had that manager's word in writing, on me, so I could hand it to the couple wanker drivers that have screwed me (and others) in the recent past. Leaving someone 12 miles from their vehicle is screwing 'em pretty good.
Still, I definitely appreciate you contacting her.

OK, so lets get a note from her and make laminated copies, stick it in your pocket...the ultimate hall pass.

[Unimog Bob]

Yeah. As silly as that idea is (b/c we shouldn't have to do this lame stuff), it's the best one. To be honest though, since I gave up on the trolley, I don't mind meeting up with people and driving and dropping vehicles.

Having a backup in case of a break down is good though.

[robertovillate]

Yeah. As silly as that idea is (b/c we shouldn't have to do this lame stuff), it's the best one. To be honest though, since I gave up on the trolley, I don't mind meeting up with people and driving and dropping vehicles.

Having a backup in case of a break down is good though.

Only problem is I probably do 10+ downwinders solo...so it's pretty essential for me. Hate to start having to pay a cab fare from RB to PAG.

[Danimal8199]

Did a downwind run from IRB to the undertow with Eric and Roy Saturday, nice swells, a little choppy, but the wind was solid and i was lit on a 10m the entire time.

No problem getting back onto the trolley for the ride, the driver just asked us not to put the gear on the seats so we slid it under and everything was all good.

D.

[Unimog Bob]

As it should be. Trust me, I wish it were always that way.

Again, I don't enjoy complaining. But, facts are facts and people should be aware of the possibility of encountering Miss Bitch driver. She exists.

[stpetesal]

I am still waiting on a call, Mrs. Howard forwarded my phone call to the Safety department, and they are going to call me with an answer either way. I did tell her I would be more than happy to bring some gear and show them just what we have, not much really. I hope I did not open a can of worms, but I would rather know one way or the other so I do not get stranded, if I truly have to be someone where on time. Mrs. Howard said her son Eddie is a kite surfer, so I am sure she is aware of the gear. I usually go with friends so we can use our cars, but as Roberto stated when you are solo it is a great resource, and is great for all if they let everyone use it. BTW If I did not screw of two Sunday ago and bruse some ribs at EB, :( I would be with you guys kiting, mowing the lawn sounds good about now.

[robertovillate]

I am still waiting on a call, Mrs. Howard forwarded my phone call to the Safety department, and they are going to call me with an answer either way. I did tell her I would be more than happy to bring some gear and show them just what we have, not much really. I hope I did not open a can of worms, but I would rather know one way or the other so I do not get stranded, if I truly have to be someone where on time. Mrs. Howard said her son Eddie is a kite surfer, so I am sure she is aware of the gear. I usually go with friends so we can use our cars, but as Roberto stated when you are solo it is a great resource, and is great for all if they let everyone use it.

Let me know if you need any help making a presentation or educating them. Also, If we had a way to demonstrate/proove/convince them that - over the last 5+ years i have been riding the trolley with my gear - I have yet to hear of one incident or potential safety issue and that we are all very good at keeping our gear from being a hazard. In fact...we are probably more worried about our gear than our own safety :rolleyes: and they don't even have seatbelts on those trolleys, so where do they draw the line? airbags? carbon fibre tubs for each passenger? ejection seats with parachutes would be cool too...but in all seriousness I think we could easily show them that we are not creating a hazard for anyone and that 95% of the drivers who do allow us to ride exercise enough good judgement to permit us to ride.

Maybe if we did a quick poll here:
-how many times have you ridden the trolley with gear?
-how many times a safety problem?
-how many times denied boarding?

Sometimes these people like facts and figures. Seems silly we would have to take this approach, but if that is what it takes I'm happy to do it.

[stpetesal]

I just talked with the Safety director and they are still working on an outcome. Mike said most drives have no problem and that kiters are polite and have even waited for the next trolley when one is full or partial full. He said the only thing that may be a problem is the surfboard, like my NSP, which is 6ft. the twin tips do not seem to pose a problem. He did say some drivers my be sticklers and that is why they are trying to come up with a solid answer. He did ask that we not give them a hard time if one drive says no and one says yes, they will have an answer soon. He may take us up on bringing some gear to show what we carry on the trolley. I gave him the measurements of one of my twin tips and he said that would not be a problem. I get the felling they will say yes, but will be a size limit, but twin tips and smaller directionals I think will be a go, JMO.

[robertovillate]

I just talked with the Safety director and they are still working on an outcome. Mike said most drives have no problem and that kiters are polite and have even waited for the next trolley when one is full or partial full. He said the only thing that may be a problem is the surfboard, like my NSP, which is 6ft. the twin tips do not seem to pose a problem. He did say some drivers my be sticklers and that is why they are trying to come up with a solid answer. He did ask that we not give them a hard time if one drive says no and one says yes, they will have an answer soon. He may take us up on bringing some gear to show what we carry on the trolley. I get the felling they will say yes, but will be a size limit, but twin tips and smaller directionals I think will be a go, JMO.

This is good to do some "discovery" on their concerns so that we have valid responses.

I think we really need to make a case for surfboards allowed - since IMO they are as safe (or more safe) than a twin-tip. Twin tips usually have harder edges, surfboards are lighter and have rounded edges. Personally I would MUCH rather be bashed by my surfboard than a twin tip. Aside from that, I wuold say many down-wind riders are now directional board riders. I forgot how to ride a twin-tip :confused:

[stpetesal]

I think the size will be the issue, not the material, but a very good point. I need to ride my directional more so I can do DW's with it, they are a very nice ride for sure. Either way I would want an answer so you don’t get left 12 or more miles from your vehicle when I could have made other arrangements as Scott F stated.

[Unimog Bob]

Thanks for all the time and effort, Scott. I know you mean well.
I don't know what will happen though.
As is right now, some people get rejected on occasion. Would hate to see all kiters always get rejected. :mad: But maybe all kiters will always be accepted.


Anyway, I think one of you nailed it. I rode the trolley probably 50 times (maybe 75) without incident (with TT board) over an 8 year period.
Then I started using surfboards for DWs about 2/3 years ago. That's when I started having a 25% rejection rate (3 of 12).
That was never verbalized as a reason for leaving me hangin', but it probably is what is going through the driver's mind.

My primary goal with "bitching" was to alert people to have a good backup plan if your primary plan was the trolley. 15 bucks and a thumb is what I found works well. If we get guaranteed rides, always, that'd be sweet. :mrgreen:

[stpetesal]

Believe me, this is one of the least important things in my life, just wanted to do some DD for myself, being that I am not able to kite now. I know most of us plan ahead and if things do not work out, it is not the end of the world.

[robertovillate]

I think the size will be the issue, not the material, but a very good point. I need to ride my directional more so I can do DW's with it, they are a very nice ride for sure. Either way I would want an answer so you don’t get left 12 or more miles from your vehicle when I could have made other arrangements as Scott F stated.

My biggest surf directional is 5'-8" (172cm)...so please make sure I fall under the limits :cool: ...or should we pull out an old Litewave 179 TT?? ahhrghh:rolleyes:

[stpetesal]

If anyone would like to take the time out to do more research then please do so, I have never been rejected but, always can get a ride

[robertovillate]

If anyone would like to take the time out to do more research then please do so, I can get a ride

Scott, if you can brief me on exactly how things were left with Shirley I will pick up the ball and see what can be done. Now that the issue has been brought to them it's better to follow thru in a somewhat organized manner, so they don't base any final decisions on the perception that this was an isolated or whimsical call from a single kiter.

I just don't want to call her out of the blue and break the continuity. Even if you can introduce me/or tell her I will call. But keep in mind these people are probably busy and don't want to be bothered with the same questions and inquiries over and over from different people, when we could show some group interest.

I think there are plenty of good arguments (aside from our own self-interests) for us to ride the bus which include:

- good use of taxpayer resources - better than seeing half empty buses driving around
- increase ridership for their system, good for their stats
- saves energy and emissions for us to drive vehicles back and forth
- demonstrates the diversity of the transit system and reasonable access to all who want to support mass transit.

If anybody has other thoughts and ideas please share them. There must be more than 4 or 5 people who have enjoyed this over the years. This is one of the unique features of living/riding at our Gulf beach's. It would be a shame to lose the privilege.

[stpetesal]

Scott, if you can brief me on exactly how things were left with Shirley I will pick up the ball and see what can be done. Now that the issue has been brought to them it's better to follow thru in a somewhat organized manner, so they don't base any final decisions on the perception that this was an isolated or whimsical call from a single kiter.

I just don't want to call her out of the blue and break the continuity. Even if you can introduce me/or tell her I will call. But keep in mind these people are probably busy and don't want to be bothered with the same questions and inquiries over and over from different people, when we could show some group interest.

I think there are plenty of good arguments (aside from our own self-interests) for us to ride the bus which include:

- good use of taxpayer resources - better than seeing half empty buses driving around
- increase ridership for their system, good for their stats
- saves energy and emissions for us to drive vehicles back and forth
- demonstrates the diversity of the transit system and reasonable access to all who want to support mass transit.

If anybody has other thoughts and ideas please share them. There must be more than 4 or 5 people who have enjoyed this over the years. This is one of the unique features of living/riding at our Gulf beach's. It would be a shame to lose the privilege.

Very short with Shirley, she has nothing to do with making the decision on what can and cannot go on the trolly saftey wise, she is the manager of the drivers. Mike Gloss (not 100%of the spelling of last name) is the Saftey director and I am sure if you would like to call Shirley at the number I provided, she would be glad to get you intouch with Mike, he was very nice on the phone. From what Mike said there is no way we will lose the privilege of useing the trolley, just may be a size on the board, may be that they will not allow 8ft boards, I have no idea, anyone is free to call him. I am sure they are well aware of the many benifits of keeping the trolleys as full as they can,

http://www.psta.net/beachtrolley.html, also, one being their jobs.

not saying there are not some jackass drivers by all means.

whimsical call? Keep in mind I have never got kicked off the trolley, if I had and was that concerned I would have done my own research as to why one driver would let me on and another would not, being that I live 1.5 miles from TI and was born and raised here,and plan on using it much more than I have, I wanted to get the facts for myself. I am in no way a great kitesufer,, just have fun with friends.

[robertovillate]

the perception that this was an isolated or whimsical call from a single kiter.


my point is that it was NOT a whimsical call...anyway,

I'll give Shirley a call tomorrow and see if I can provide any info they may want and a reasonable viewpoint for all those interested.

I've already spoken to another kiter who used the trolley today, with a surfboard. He actually called Shirley in advance of his DW and checked with her. She told him that if he encountered trouble boarding that he should instruct the driver to radio her for authorization. That's very encouraging - for now. But hopefully we can get it past the point where even that type of encounter is necessary. It would be really nice if we can just plan on getting on the bus without a hassle, every time - any time.

[robertovillate]

Don't mean to stir this up... just find it funny. :-)

Last time I was told "no" I was with 2 other guys. I did ask the driver to call her boss and check. She said she would, picked up the on board phone, seemed like she was calling, then literally slammed the door closed on myself and the two other guys faces and drove off - before getting a response or saying a word to us. She barely missed running over my foot.
It was lame how she did it and left us hanging there.

So, asking for a call once denied may not work. :cool:

I think that what could make a difference is being able to say "call Shirley"***, which now might carry a little more clout (?)...or they just tell the drivers in general that we are allowed as a group and reduce it to a much less frequent conflict. I'm hoping that with a little effort we can remove the ambiguity amongst the drivers.

I'm actually thinking of keeping Shirleys number with me just in case, even if she tells me tomorrow that we'll never be denied. Damn, I'll even have her name and number tatooed to my ass if that seals the deal :rolleyes:

[robertovillate]

I spoke with Shirley today, who said I should still speak with Mike Gloss - the safety director. I left a message for Mike to call me and will speak or meet with him at the earliest chance possible.

Before Shirley transferred my call I asked her for an interim procedure. She said, if we have trouble boarding, have the driver call the radio room. She said as long as you can hold your board between your legs and on your lap you should be fine.

I think, for now anyway, some guidelines we might follow

- be courteous to the drivers, even if they don't let you on.
- pack your gear down as small as possible
- don't let it swing around on the bus (probably their biggest concern)
- smaller groups probably better that a huge pack of kiters
- carry coins, not wet dollar bills

I'm sure most of this sounds obvious, but the more acceptable our behaviour/conduct/attitude seems at first the better.

Let's see how it goes...and I will update on any further contact with PSTA.

Again, if anybody has constructive input- now would be a good time.

Thanks

[stpetesal]

This is no big deal I know, but works well. I think I got it at a local dive shop. Change is the best for the trolley, but I myself like to bring enough cash for lunch or what ever may come about. Good to here you got to talk to Mrs.

Sounds like you want need that tattoo after all;)

[dwnwndr?]

Interesting thread guys - wish I had this sweet deal near my house (other than the lousy Miami-Dade bus). What's the best launching/landing spot for a good downwinder that I can do in an hour or so and catch the trolley back to where I started?