Fishermen seek kiteboard rules...flats are being damaged?

[Deferred Success]

Fishermen seek kiteboard rules
Upper Keys guides say water sport damages flats -

http://keysnews.com/node/15294

.....Brad Lange (http://www.fksa.org/member.php?u=3706), owner of Seven Sports, which rents kiteboards at Whale Harbor Marina,
said he welcomes a battle over the growing sport. He scoffs at claims from fishermen
that kiteboards are hurting the flats.

"Show me any kind of proof of damage on any level and we'll compare that to flats fishermen," he said.


Marc

[conchxpress]

You go, Brad. Being a flats fisherman myself and a kiteboarder, I can attest that there is more "bottom time" fishing the flats. If one is in a flats boat, the guide is usually poling the flats and the pole comes into contact extensively with the bottom. Frequently, you get out of the boat and wade, stalking the fish across the flats. How many kiteboarders do you know that would prefer to walk than ride on the surface? When in a stationary position on the flats, although most don't use an anchor, the guide will dig the pole into the bottom and secure the boat to the pole. This can't be good for the bottom structure. I think it's a case of everyone wants the space to themselves. Many fisherman will get perturbed when even another flats boat shows up in their area. Selfishness sucks!

[bigpimp'n]

Selfish......I couldn't agree more. :mad:

[ricki]

Wow, it would be to see the credible basis for some of these claims.

"But it has also whipped up concern among some fishing guides, who say the kiteboarders are damaging the flats, scaring away the fish and distracting beachgoers with ill-controlled falling kites."

http://www.fksa.org/albums/album432/Whale_Harbor.jpg

Look at all the turbidity, likely related to disruption of the sand profile through maintenance dredging and denuding of bottom cover on the Florida Bay side. Other turbidity happens with each passing boat of draft at susceptible tides. Kiters don't need maintenance dredging, who does? Fishermen among others.

Those numerous channels on the Straits side, each one denudes bottom cover and allows further destruction through boat props, the scars are notable and numerous. I would think Brad has some nice aerial photos from over the years of linear sand strips ripped free of turtle grass by boats "feeling bottom." These channels, meander and thereby take out even more bottom cover over time.

How about all the people that anchor on the sand bar and walk all over the flats? Lots of disturbance and destruction there.

Disturb fish? Kiters do this more than raging waverunners all day long and active powerboat traffic though all these channels?

Kiters confine activities for the most part to a narrow area off Whale Harbor. How many range more than a half a mile up or down Keys? Few. Most stay above the bottom, otherwise they're just standing still, what's the point. To my knowledge they stay well away from the Florida Bay side of the cut. How are they messing up fishing there? Does all flats fishing activity occur in this narrow area off Whale Harbor? Hope not, otherwise the guides owe their patrons a serious discount for lack of initiative.

Still more points points beyond these obvious few. IF PEOPLE ARE REALLY WORRIED about bottom community health, fish stocks and the like there are activities and interest groups far higher in order of negative influence and priorty than kiters, fact.

Facts in this argument would be good as opposed from unsupported allegations, what do you think?

[Steve-O]

I think the fisherman, among other assumptions think kiteboarders are a bunch of uneducated, thugs/beach bums.....all I got to say is they got another thing coming.

Good luck with the debate. Just hope more than the local kite businesses show up to the meeting to defend the right to kite.

"Kiteboarding is not a crime" should be the national slogan don't you think?

[Unimog Bob]

I have a Master's in Environmental Engineering, with.... what do you know, a strong understanding on grass flats ecology (Master's thesis). In addition, I worked in Florida Bay for 2 years on a continuing project to determine what was causing the sea grass die off in Fl. Bay.

One thing I can assure you - that's about the stupidest thing I have ever heard, and the statement is obviously being made because some fishermen simply don't want kiters around (can't really blame them). You don't a stupid degree to figure that one out. Good luck to these guys trying to prove that kiters do more damage than their boats popping "out of the hole".

After having said that, I quit "science" when I realized it was nothing more than politics. I have seen much weaker arguments "win" once put in the hands of bureaucrats, and much sillier ideas pursued because they made a buck. So, even though it's a pathetic argument, good luck. It ultimately comes down to who runs what.

(Scott Fears)

[b-rad]

yeah, kiteboarding sure is not a crime...

I think our slogan for this one is gonna be "don't pick a fight, go fly a kite!"
I have a great pic of a guide pushing his lawn mower off a flat with a nice scar behind him. I think it will look nice on a shirt. I'll let you guys know when they are available.

David killed Goliath with only one stone and a little faith.

We have the stone...

But, I DON"T WANT TO USE IT. There really are just a few haters out there that feel that God created the Florida Keys for them to fish...and only them. Most of the guides down here are really cool and most of them are my friends (and family). Heck, I'm a 4th generation fisherman in the Keys, I love fishing. But a few of these guys feel they have the power to do whatever they want. They don't. Legends in their own minds.

Don't get me wrong out there guys. I don't want to fight at all...at all. But if you (haters) back us (kiters) into a corner and threaten us with bogus claims to protect "your" territory, you will sleep in the bed you make.

I will talk to the "leaders" of this baseless attack and ask them respectfully to reconsider their perspective. And hopefully this discussion will end there... There will probably a discussion at the next Village Near Shore Water Advisory Comittee Meeting. I'll post the time so we can go throw a little party there and re-align some people's perspectives on reality.

Peace and chicken grease my peeps -

man, we need some wind

[greg meintjes]

Love the slogan Brad and will order a shirt when they are available. I heard on the radio that the flats fishermen have in the last few years also fought with the jet ski,s and the blue water fishermen. In one day there are more snorkelers or fisherman in the keys than there are kiters the whole year. One cruise ship proboably disturbs more silt off the bottom when coming into harbour than all our kiteboarders would do in years. A decent wind tears up the seagrass in a few hours much more than we will proboably do in years.

We are definately very eco friendly, but we still need to educate fellow riders that come down here and do not know how to treat all our marine resources. A lot of our local kiters in Key West happen to also be flats guides and I have never heard complaints from any of them. I think a lot of this is plain jelousy , fishing is a battling industry in the Keys (too many fishermen, and too little customers) that and if you just look at the average size of the fish they are catching nowadays. (they are tiny) So fishing in the Keys is not that exciting anymore.

Now kiteboarding is a growing industry ,and the last few years we have had a lot of wind, so while they are sitting on the dock , we are going out kiting and this is pissing them off. I agree with you Brad, I also do not want a fight, but if that what it comes to I will be right next to you. (well about 90 miles south actually) but you get the point. Good luck.

Greg

[conchxpress]

I once went fishing with a guide, in Key West, that had his kite gear in the boat with him. This was before I started kiting. I asked him what it was and he told me that when it's too windy to fish, he kites. Forget his name tho.

[b-rad]

right on greg- and yes, we successfully won the jet ski battle back in 00, 01, 02

and by the way, I was seriously miss-quoted...

I said compare damage to other damage like prop scars not "flats fishermen". I think he was being a "good" journalist and was encouraging the us vs. them thing by putting those words in my mouth...can you say libel?

But, apparently some guides are the ones leading the charge so...


Would some other guides out there talk to these few donkeys and ask them to quit making proplems. You guys know who they are...if not just ask around. If flat's guides get more regulation after this it will be because of them, not us. (and that would be a real shame after all the work we did with "alternative e") You other guides should blackball these "legends" as the selfish, arrogant, mean old bitter guys they are. Not because of hate, but that they might get the picture, learn a little respect and actually become productive members of society...and not just lawn mowers.

[Jake]

I don't know if they are still out there but years ago in the Tampa bay area there were bay shrimpers stirring up the grass flats. You could always tell when they were out there as the weed/grasses floating on the surface were horrible and accumulated in large floating islands. I think their nets have large rollers on the bottom that disturb the sea grasses.

Regarding kiteboarders tearing up the flats, we do have some areas here in northern Pinellas where it is impossible to ride when the tide is dead low. However, there are some kiters that ride across them and may do some minor damage. I admit I did it myself on my finless skimboard a couple of times till I hit something (sponge or something anchored to the bottom) and wound up taking a mud bath.

[jetpack]

Bump...

Anyone have any new updated info on this issue in the Keys?