ATTENTION KITESURFERS-Warning from Pinellas County Surfers

[jaco]

Found this on the GULFSTER.com website for surfers on the West Coast near Pinellas. Sounds like they're not to happy with the kiters. Probably something to tend to.

"ATTENTION KITESURFERS: Today I witnessed a few kitesurfers come dangerously close to literally landing on some surfers. I may not be the brightest guy in the world but then again it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that should a serious or fatal accident occur it could potentially invite a legislative response in the form of restrictions or outright prohibitions that would adversely affect not only kitesurfers but possibly surfers as well. So having said that please give the surfers in the water a little more room. After all, you have an entire coastline to play with, whereas surfers just have a few isolated spots to do their thing."

gulfster.com

[Chad085]

just get ready for beach closures and restrictions. Regardless of the efforts made by all of us who care, some a@@holes are still gonna ruin it for everyone. Hopefully they will only injure themselves and not innocent bystanders. We were just starting to gain some respect from gulfster, they were posting a lot of pics and giving us a lot of credit. Smooth move, whoever it was. Ignorance should be painful:mad:

[ricki]

Kiters should pass on the downwind side of surfers or well to windward with kite high, not threatening to closeline them. I would make sure there are no surfers ideally within a couple of line lengths downwind when jumping. Some of those jumps really get stretched out particularly on flat kites. I was amazed at how far downwind I went in a session today. Landing jumps near surfers or bathers is idiotic in the extreme and inexcusable. Always look around before you launch a jump. I would not ride routinely through the lineup either. People who do it are offering up their life's earnings and more as potential compensation to the avoidably injured parties. Believe it.

Who has greater numbers, surfers or kiteboarders and who has been around longer? Taking on surfers is also stupid in the extreme and highly unnecessary. We have vastly greater mobility and riding options. Crowding surfers is not smart or advisable and will likely lead to trouble.

Talk to the problem kiters, if they persist get some good video and put it up letting the clip do the talking. Kent might even give you some swag.

[Tom Stock]

Ok, fess up... who was it? You know who you are.

Having been one of those surfers almost run down by a kiter 3 years ago I can imagine how pissed of the surfers were. I sure was.

[bayflite]

surfers dont even give each other enouph room.

[Skyway Scott]

They don't fall from the sky on one another and can't go 30 knots, either. :rolleyes:

[bayflite]

i bet they wish they could.

[Skyway Scott]

I guess no one will take this serious until we lose the beach. Whatever.

[bayflite]

a ban wil make some kiters happy IMO
i'm just happy to kite free!!!

[Tom Stock]

a serious or fatal accident occur it could potentially invite a legislative response in the form of restrictions or outright prohibitions that would adversely affect not only kitesurfers but possibly surfers as well

Earth to kite surfers... this statement came from someone who is NOT A KITE SURFER.

Great way to promote the sport.

[WindRyder]

At our favorite spot up here, we have a lot of surfers. When the surf is up,those guys are spread over the course of several hundreds of yards. Yeah, at times it's a bummer that we can't ride some of the nicer waves, but there is a lot of real estate out there to be had. Last year, a couple of us kiters had some vandalism to our cars. We figured out that there is only a very small group of surfers who have an attitude with us. The vast majority are fine with us, BUT, we do stay out of the line, unless we are coming in or going out. We give them space, and often talk to them when on and off the water. Kill them with kindness has been our motto. And that small group of agro surfers, haven't had a problem this year. Good luck with your situation down there!!!

[Todd RT]

Surfing in Pinellas County??? Not too many waves here... wonder where they were riding??

[toby wilson]

Who has greater numbers, surfers or kiteboarders and who has been around longer?


As for numbers in Pinellas I'd have to say Kiteboarders Rick. The west coast isn't anything like the east coast for waves...

The surfers in this area are pretty cool with us for the most part though. I am sure something seriously kooky must have been done to upset them.

I hate to sound like a broken record but we may want to revisit the skills testing, rider level tagging, and putting up signs idea at our local launches.

This thread was NEVER responded to on Bobo's last post:

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=5997&page=9

If not that system, something needs to be put into place or the riding here is just gonna get kookier...

[inferno]

As for numbers in Pinellas I'd have to say Kiteboarders Rick. The west coast isn't anything like the east coast for waves...



not sure about that toby, i used to surf, and on an epic day, ie when a hurricane goes north through the gulf and sends overhead clean waves.... you literaly have to take turns on waves, there was a surfer every 5ft for a few hundred yards... hard to believe but true, im sure tom would concur....
there easily a couple hundred surfers in our area..... if not more...

[Woodson]

Friday night Bennigan's at Channelside... Tampa Surfer Meeting... FWIW...

[ricki]

As a side note, this was very similar to what almost caused the effective banning of both kiteboarding and windsurfing in Hawaii recently. Small dumb acts can have large consequences.

Show reasonable respect and common sense or open the doors to having others do it for us. People that have no reason to give much of a damn about kiting, how and where we like to do it or anything else.

I heard a story about someone landing on a surfboard on the east coast recently. Fortunately, the surfer saw it coming and slid out of the way just before contact. Amazing stupidity on the part of the kiteboarder.

[Skyway Scott]

There are definitely more surfers, it's a pretty obvious no brainer.
Just looking at how many surf shops and how much business they get will tell you that. They may not ride every day, but it's not even close. They have a big voice.

Skills testing etc. is a waste of time in terms of this particular problem.
Let's get real. Do you think this is being done by noobs that couldn't pass a skills test? I am totally at a loss as to how kiting skills relate to common sense and courtesy anyway? There is no connection.
I don't make these comments as an attack on you Toby, but they are made as opinions directly against yours.
It doesn't matter in the end, this is useless forum chatter, truly useless.

Yesterday was only one day and focussing on who it was seems silly.
I have seen plenty of days where 20 guys (all at once or at different times in smaller groups) screamed down the coastline for 15 miles, the whole way coming close to shore doing tricks very close (you were there on one day Toby to see). As a community, complaining on the forum but just watching the days it happens is like talking about a fire that burnt down your neighbor's house the day before while you sat and watched it that day.
The big difference here is that your neighbor didn't care at the time and the whole neighborhood didn't care either, as they were roasting twinkies on the house's flames. That's how it feels around here for the last 8 months or so, and the major reason I and many others totally gave up on trying to stop it.

Majority rules and the majority has been saying for quite some time (not just yesterday)--- "Burn baby burn. Let's just burn this house down".
I personally can't relate to knowingly burning down your house (of riding), but it's impossible to stop it when so many seem dedicated to the cause.

This was a just another useless forum rant. Useless meetings, useless everything.
This stuff comes from within. People either have respect for the community (of kiters and larger community) or they don't.
We have plenty of riders who have none. That can't be overcome. Sorry to be such a downer, but it's a fact.

[BigR]

Scott wrote
There are definitely more surfers, it's a pretty obvious no brainer.
Just looking at how many surf shops and how much business they get will tell you that. They may not ride every day, but it's not even close.

Skills testing etc. is a waste of time in terms of this particular problem.
Let's get real. Do you this is being done by noobs that couldn't pass a skills test? I am totally lost as to how kiting skills relate to common sense and courtesy anyway? There is no connection.
I don't make these comments as an attack on you Toby, but they are made as opinions directly against yours. The only system that would ever work is for everyone to put a HUGE number on all their kites so that other people, including cops, could note which riders were continually doing the same actions. It's pretty much always the same people. Good luck with that one. I don't want to waste a perfectly good kite with a stupid number stencil, although I would.
It doesn't matter in the end, this is useless forum chatter, truly useless.

Yesterday was only one day. I have seen plenty of days where 20 guys (all at once or at different times in smaller groups) screamed down the coastline for 15 miles, the whole way coming close to shore doing tricks very close (you were there and one day Toby). As a community, complaining on the forum but just watching the days it happens is like talking about a fire that burnt down your neighbor's house the day before while you sat and watched.
The big difference here is that your neighbor didn't care at the time and the whole neighborhood didn't care either, as they were roasting twinkies on the house's flames. That's how it feels around here and the major frustration (and why I gave up totally) on trying to stop it.

Majority rules, and the majority has been saying for quite some time (not just yesterday)--- "Burn baby burn. Let's just burn this house down".
I personally can't relate to knowing burning down your house (of riding), but it's impossible to stop it when so many seemed dedicated to the cause.

This was a useless forum rant.

Totally agree

skills testing
signs
tags
talking
forums

none of these will work apparently. nothing will change the people that refuse to listen to common sense

like the song says "Second chances they don't never matter, people never change"

[ricki]

Why are there still skateboard parks, hang gliding parks, surfing zones on public beaches, snowboarding, designated hobie cat & sailing corridors on public beaches, sky diving LZ's, american football ... this could go on for a long time.

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist? Largely because people didn't blow off keeping them around as being hopeless due to the dumber, self-destructive side of human nature. If people get together for effect, this can be done and has been done many times before. Saying it's hopeless absolves responsibility or the need to try.

Many of the problem kiters (often well experienced guys too) seem to be driven by ego, appearances. Hit them where it hurts to work for reasonable change. Or, blow it off ... your choice.

[Steve-O]

I have to concur with Scott's stance.

I have connections with the boys at Gulfster....so I will do a little work trying to figure out what was seen. Again, it seemed to be a perception from the beach.

As a surfer of 20+ years, surfers are just as dangerous to other surfers IMO. A hard surfboard to the head could do equal damage. I have been in crowded lineups all over the world, and it is dangerous.

Surfers have just learned to live with this and deal with it on the water with there own. However kitesurfing becoming as popular as it is maybe gives them the feeling that they have some power to shut us down. They are already frustrated with the crowds in surfing, now they have to deal with kiteboarders too. Yes we have way more options than they do. It makes them angry. Imagine being at a skatepark and some guys come through with dirt bikes. It would piss some people off.

I feel there pain, but I don't think they are going to have a leg to stand on if something did happen, because so many injuries and deaths have happened in the surfing world and the sport still lives on as one of the biggest in the world.

Shit, I almost got ran over with by a snowboarder going 50+ and if he did hit me, it would have been a trip to the ER. But do you think they would shut down snowboarding.......nope.

I personally feel our biggest concern is that innocent smimmer or beach goer. Surfers enter the water knowing the risks involved. Swimmers are a much different story IMO.

Final thought....go to the North Shore of Hawaii. Someone dies surfing there every year and many get mangled. Lifeguard rescues are a daily occurance. Do they shut down the sport because of the risks. Nope. If it put innocent people on the beach at risk, well that would be a different story.

The world is not getting any smaller.

[Tom Stock]

Surfing in Pinellas County??? Not too many waves here... wonder where they were riding??

Do you surf? There waves here any time there is any serious wind with any west in it.

Sunset, and Upham are the two best pinellas surf spots.

Since the wind was SW, I am betting this was a down winder starting from PAG.

[Tom Stock]

As for numbers in Pinellas I'd have to say Kiteboarders Rick. The west coast isn't anything like the east coast for waves....

We are far outnumbered by surfers.

I've been surfing here for 20 years. Kiteboarding didn't even exist then.

Speaking of which check out my new board she's a beauty:

http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/surfing/sano1.jpg
http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/surfing/sano2.jpg

[Steve-O]

For those that can't imagine good waves in the Gulf, check out this link.

Lets not forget 2 of the best surfers in the world, Cory and Shea Lopez were born and raised right here on IRB. Cory kills it on a world wide stage.

And the best surfer to ever live and considered one of the world's best athlete's ever hails from Florida. Kelly Slater!!!!! He has won the World title so many times I have lost count. 9X???

http://gulfster.com/Pictures.html

[toby wilson]

Exactly Rick. Proactive behavior is always better than reactive behavior when dealing with problems like these. But I seem to be outnumbered here, not only by the surfers but also by others who don't want to work toward getting the area regulated.

Scott, the regulation is easy. Wear the tags yourself and lead by example as one of the guys who is more experienced without protest. If you see someone on the beach without a tag, point out the sign that explains the rules and regulations of our launch as well as the tagging and skills testing. Let the instructors posess and hand out the tags and do the testing for newbs and out of towners. Problem solved. If someone refuses to wear a tag or do a skills test, a group of local more experienced riders approach them and insist that they put their kite down. Heck, you could even include Jim Wilson in this for Ft. DeSoto if you wanted, I am sure he would be all for safer kiting practices at Ft. DeSoto as he has seen some accidents there with some experienced guys getting hurt...

Or if any of you think you have a better approach to regulate, present it but staying passive is just like holding a ticking time bomb. Eventually it will explode and if you don't get rid of it, you'll go up in smoke with it.

Stop bitching about others if you aren't willing to change yourself...
Why are there still skateboard parks, hang gliding parks, surfing zones on public beaches, snowboarding, designated hobie cat & sailing corridors on public beaches, sky diving LZ's, american football ... this could go on for a long time.

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist? Largely because people didn't blow off keeping them around as being hopeless due to the dumber, self-destructive side of human nature. If people get together for effect, this can be done and has been done many times before. Saying it's hopeless absolves responsibility or the need to try.

Many of the problem kiters (often well experienced guys too) seem to be driven by ego, appearances. Hit them where it hurts to work for reasonable change. Or, blow it off ... your choice.

[Todd RT]

Do you surf? There waves here any time there is any serious wind with any west in it.

Sunset, and Upham are the two best pinellas surf spots.

Since the wind was SW, I am betting this was a down winder starting from PAG.

Not on this coast. I live in NORTH pinellas, so I don't know Sunset or Upham.

I just haven't seen any surfers on Pinellas beaches. Maybe I'll bring my short board down south one day!! ;)

[Tom Stock]

Why are there still skateboard parks

ALL these activities were confronted by bans in their day. Why do they still exist?

Huh??? Who wants to skate in the same stupid park every day.

We LOST OUR FAVORITE SKATING SPOTS.

The parks are all we have left.

How is that a proactive win? It was a reactive "damn we can't skate anywhere anymore".

And WTF Toby, last I checked you were one of the people riding in the swim area at PAG right after the "Stay out of the swim zone" thread along with a dozen other guys.

So what exactly are you doing to help if you can't even stay out of the swim area? Oh a tag would have made a difference right.

I do my part. I try to stay outside the swim area and stay the F@#$ away from the surfers.

Every surfer on the gulf coast is looking at that website now thinking kite surfers are total kooks.

They are totally 100% right.

[BigR]

Or if any of you think you have a better approach to regulate, present it but staying passive is just like holding a ticking time bomb



I like Kent's idea of using the STICK rather than the nice CARROT approach we've been using





Does anybody realy believe that us kitesurfers are unaware of the common sense rules of kitesurfing?
There are people that just refuse to follow them, that's where our efforts should be, IMO

[Alex]

I think a big reason for no action with this sign and these tags and stuff is the fact that the percentage of kiters using and reading this forum regularly is about 7%, in the end its going to take some beach promotion when we are all out there riding. Does anyone remember the tbksa, where it was about 35 of us and we were being reactive after olga's kite went into the skyway(from gear failure). forum talk is forum talk and it should be taken seriously but it isnt. we need to have face to face conversations. Do you guys know how many people showed up to the pre race party at WSW? A sh!t load. If we can get them to hold something like that again in reference to the recent ban talk, then we could get some stuff done hands on. promote the "kite night" on the beaches and advocate all riders to try to attend, because you arent going to be attending for "us" but rather for "you" because a beach ban is everyones problem. I'm sure there are a bunch of people with good ideas as well as people who would be able to put them into action. blabbing around on the forum, will just make this case go around in circles.

[Alex]

and seriously the ridiculous forum callouts need to end. everyone has at once done something "wrong". ive done my fair share, but calling out toby, when he is trying to help, for one thing he did wrong a couple of months ago is absurd. plus that kind of negativity is going to steer alot of people away from trying to help.

[<jason]

All this is going nowhere.....if some of you havent already noticed...

If we dont come together on this somehow...we might as well find a new sport..imo

[shogun1204]

and seriously the ridiculous forum callouts need to end. everyone has at once done something "wrong". ive done my fair share, but calling out toby, when he is trying to help, for one thing he did wrong a couple of months ago is absurd. plus that kind of negativity is going to steer alot of people away from trying to help.


Amen!


Alex, saw you in the new Ecplise ad in Kiteboarder!!!!!! Freaking sweet!

[Alex]

<jason, i believe i offered up a pretty good way of "coming together"

[toby wilson]

Agreed Alex.

I saw that ad too, way to throw down!!!

Roy, saw you in the latest issue of Gaysians Digest. That Gayley you were doing up there in Panama City was pretty limp-wristed!!!

[Tom Stock]

Maybe we should have a new tag. The "i know better but it's ok today" tag.

We could wear it every time we ride.

Ok, seriously, Alex you are almost right, BUT kiters follow by example right there on the spot.

Go out and set an example. A newb for example would not want to be the only one riding by himself like a kook in the swim area while the pros are out throwing 30ft jumps and handle passes beyond the buoys off the big swells.

It's all about perception. If it's perceived to be "cool" to ride in the swim area, everyone will do it, if it's not, they won't.

Surfers and skateboarders don't learn by sitting around talking about rules.

They learn by example from watching the veterans.

If the veterans would set an example I really think it would make a huge difference.

[<jason]

Your idea is good...not saying its not... but we are going to have to get a big turnout...for this "kitenight" and actually do this thing... and not have it turn into "BeerFest" within 15 minutes:confused:

It will have to be orginized...and have an agreed upon result at the end....

Like the first hour everone pontificating thier point of view...second hour weeding out the one's that are unrealistic...third hour voting on the easiest one with that will produce the greatest results.....tho just my opinion :)

[inferno]

my two cents..

signs and tag systems would work well in areas such as SW LP and EB, maybe NB too..
i have no problem with the idea,

but i dont think there is anything we can do about people riding in swim zones on the gulf coast, especially when most are doing downwinders....
only teh beach law enforcement can and eventually will take care of it...

[Tom Stock]

but i dont think there is anything we can do about people riding in swim zones on the gulf coast, especially when most are doing downwinders....
only teh beach law enforcement can and eventually will take care of it...

Well in my neighborhood one single person pushed to make feeding the ducks in the neighborhood illegal and succeeded by getting some supporters:

Look for yourself:
http://www.thegreatseparation.com/newsfront/2007/11/illegal-to-feed.html
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/18/Neighborhoodtimes/Duck_if_you_feed_wild.shtml

All it takes is one pissed of person with money, friends on the city council, and time. There are plenty of these people who live on the beach.

Ducks don't hurt swimmers. Count your days fellas.

[Alex]

<jason,I truly believe "kitenight" would indeed work if everyone goes and if we go to accomplish the task at hand. The kitemasters party, was indeed a party. I am pretty sure everyone would be in favor of going out and seeing all their buddies from the local spots and talk about a way to preserve our area.

Tom, to be honest, wherever these newbies are looking to get inspiration it can't be at me, especially at the beaches. I rarely ride in the gulf, and you'd be hard pressed finding me out there when there is anyone(bystanders) in the water. I don't do it. I know i ride up to the beach everytime on my tack in, so if there is anyone in the water i am way up wind or way down wind of them. If there are people where i am riding i will ride outside of the swim area upwind of them.

it seems as if everyone thinks that the vets should step up, but what are we being asked to do? I throw all my tricks off shore. I ride courteously on the water, giving right of way to anyone. I can safely say that most of the people who have been pushing the envelope around here for a while are all pretty safe riders. I think the main problem is newbies not knowing what they are doing wrong. The instructors do their part teaching and educating these people how to ride, now we should be the ones teaching them specifics about our locations. Im not saying it is our responsibility, but we have to do it if we want access too our beaches.

basically i think we should organize a rider held rider organized event at hopefully WSW, and get a large portion of the kiting community out there to figure out some specifics. to give up and tell everyone to prepare to lose their beaches is ridiculous.

[stormatzio]

I email trying to find out what color the kites were. They said " I don't recall what color their kites were. I happened to take some photos (which I later deleted) of them doing some pretty cool jumps but I was so disgusted by what took place that I didn't want to post them on the site as I normally would have because I didn't want to condone what they were doing. "

In over 4 years of riding in the gulf I have never heard of a fellow waterman calling out a kitesurfer!

[Tom Stock]

basically i think we should organize a rider held rider organized event at hopefully WSW, and get a large portion of the kiting community out there to figure out some specifics. to give up and tell everyone to prepare to lose their beaches is ridiculous.


http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4529&highlight=safety+meeting

[CrazyJay]

....

[ricki]

It is good this isn't an issue where you are Jayson. It is curious but so be it. Kiters threatening surfers is an issue, either actual or perceived in many other areas in the USA. What surfers do to harm their access is there lookout and welcome to it. They've been fighting access issues a lot longer than kiters have, say about forty years worth in some areas.

What kiters do to threaten our access is of more interest to me. I have heard lots of stories, many likely true that I will not get into here for practical reasons. They never should have happened, but did.

Perception is everything in our society. It can even have more impact than fact sad to say. Surfers far out number kiters and have been on the water much longer than us. Their advocacy groups are far larger, better established and more effective than anything in existence for kiteboarding. In short I wouldn't want to take them on as the recent experience in Hawaii supports. We have been working with Surfing advocacy groups to maintain kiting access. They were the first to pass along the invaluable information of the Pompano ban even before kiting interests.

Kiters need to keep their distance from swimmers, surfers and other water users. To do otherwise with our growing numbers is to beg for trouble.

I was speaking to Robby Naish about this subject just last week during an interview. He said we need to "stay invisible, have fun and work to protect access." By invisible he meant stay out of official scrutiny and ire. Pete Cabrinha has similar sentiments in his interview.

I don't consider any of this thread a waste of time. At least the parts working towards a solution.

[Skyway Scott]

It's obvious that some people have different views on where/when they can safely ride and how it may or may not affect our access. It's also beyond obvious to me that all kiters (they don't have to be on the forum) are aware of the prevailing problems in FL and the concerns that exist toward riding near the shore and bathers. We do talk at the launches and you'd have to be under a rock not to know what's up.
Despite being aware, some guys have decided our concerns are not valid, and that's their right. They feel riding near others is not a problem.
We can't force them to change their minds. One more safety meeting won't do anything. A sign stating a few recommendations won't either. A tag.. well, that might get jammed up my ass on a bad landing, I will pass on that one.
Until someone is willing to literally hold Jay down and not let him ride (never going to happen) he will ride like he wants. Jay is far from alone in his views, so try holding back 30 riders who don't feel it's a problem to consistently ride within 20 feet of shore each tack, get close to swimmers/surfers and other stuff. Maybe a few of you that don't ride the beach much are starting to get it - Most guys riding out there don't feel it's a problem to do what they want. Jay is just the only guy that has expressed this very common belief.
I hope that he is right and that I am just a nervous ninny. I definitely don't want to lose the beach, it's always been my favorite spot. But I don't think there is a point to fighting over ideas anymore either, since it's pointless.

[amber]

scott, are you wearing your cranky pants today? There is so much negativity in this thread, i can't even believe it! Especially knowing that for the most part this sport is made up of a bunch of laid back, level headed guys.

Danny's post about the tags/signs working at EB, SW, lassing, etc. was totally on the mark for me. I don't think that anyone suggesting a tag system thinks that it will be a solution to people riding in swim areas or near surfers. Places like east beach and the skyway are places where riders of all skill levels congregate. People like Jay and Alex all the way to joe schmoe who bought his kite off ebay.

The tags/signs were designed specifically for those launches, not the gulf beaches and to address specific problems, not a solution to every issue we'll face. Alex-great call on the WSW preparty. that was a good representation of our local "regular" riders.

Scott- if you choose to wear your tag up your ass maybe you should head over to the backside more often. I think most people can tolerate a luggage tag attached to their harness. Lets show each other some RESPECT both on the forum and at the beach. That should be a great first step for all of us.

[Skyway Scott]

I am a laid back and level headed guy, which is exactly why I find nothing more than humor and irony in your posts.

[Unimog Bob]

I'll wear a Tag, a wrist band or even de ribbon, and I'd like to see us preserve access, I just don't think it will matter. I can't tell you how much I respect Jay for openly stating his position. He is one of the very best riders in our area and puts only himself at risk when ridding. At least he is not a hypocrite talking a lot about safety first, and preserving access, then doing the opposite and actively undermining responsible riding. If that doesn't describe you, then no worries. If you feel you're being called out then maybe you should indulge in a little introspection. I for one am going to do my best to enjoy my time on the water responsibly, have fun, and enjoy the good people I meet. The rest is a waste of time.

[Alanis]

Scott- if you choose to wear your tag up your ass maybe you should head over to the backside more often. Lets show each other some RESPECT both on the forum and at the beach. That should be a great first step for all of us.

Comment: Promote respect.
Action: Show utter disrespect in preceeding statement.
Result: IRONY.

[Tom Stock]

Summary:

hypocrite:

Hypocrisy is the act of condemning another person, where the stated basis for the criticism is the breach of a rule which also applies to the critic and of which the critic is in breach to a similar or greater extent. A person engaged in hypocrisy is called a hypocrite.

[Danimal8199]

Rode north clearwater beach today...

Turns out they mark their swim zones with giant telephone poles.

You think I am doing anything like riding or jumping near a 15 foot barnacle covered pole? Heck no! They have these things like every 50 yards or something.

No becasue I am scared to jump one while doing a triple kite loop handle pass, more so becasue I don't want to wrap my kite around it!

Now they just need to replace all the swim zone bouys down the coast with these things!

But not to be confused with the "idle speed" bouys like at Indian Rocks

[bayflite]

kite free or die!

[Unimog Bob]

Not you Steve no worries there, and no one who has posted in this thread. Enough of this it is blowing, I'm of to have some fun, hope to see you all out there thrown it down in your own style. Give me kiting or give me death. Don't tread on my lines.

[amber]

Unfortunately, we all share space and with more riders, it means more mistakes, more attention drawn to us, etc. So in an effort to be able to continue to enjoy this sport IMO, trying to respect each other needs to start now. I apologize for telling you to take your tag over to the backside. I agree that wasn't very respectful. But hey...we all make mistakes, right? Its just frustrating to hear someone with such a strong voice in the community be so negative about others' efforts to make things better/safer. For the most part we all have good intentions.
peace...

[Tom Stock]

Ok, you guys finally won.

If we can't call someone out when they screw up (even though Crazy Jay admitted to it), we can't video them, and they won't do the right thing if we ask them nicely, then there is really nothing here that is going to change.

So, rather than swim upstream and always look like the dick for saying something when someone does something dumb I decided I am going to make a big change in my riding style and just go with the majority. Plus it'll make me cooler since I'll be with the cool crowd, no matter how ugly or kooky my riding style is.

True story:

Yesterday I went out to Redington to "share the stoke" and rode all the way down to John's Pass in the little waves 10-20 feet from shore. It was light and side off, but the waves were peeling in nice lines, and hell the chicks digged it, except for the old farts who complained when I buzzed 'em with my kite. WTF do they know about kiting anyway... I wasn't that close. I saw a few surfers and sprayed em a little so I could get mad props. Too bad there wasn't enough wind to jump them they would have loved it.

The cops didn't say anything to me and I didn't hurt anyone so everything is cool.

I can't wait until I get my tag cause you'll be able to read it from the shoreline next time I am riding. I can't wait. I'm dead serious. Just wait. It feels f@#$ing great I can't believe I was missing out on this all along.

Don't bother calling me out... it's against our only rule.

PEACE OUT

[BoBo the Safety Clown]

Have a BAN-tastic day, everyone!

[Tom Stock]

say no to drugs

[bayflite]

nancy reagan rocks!

[sparkyman]

Can't we all just get along.........Rodney King

[srq kiter]

It's like Rick and Kent sd in the recent Podcast. It is the top 10% that will ruin it for the rest. For a local ambassador of the sport to be riding in the swim zones with the surfers doesn't seem right.

Certainly, two riders with 15 yrs of training can find a spot that is less conjested. I can see your need to air-it-out for your old surfing buddies, but please. Do it somewhere else!!

Although i hear that Pinellas county surf rocks... not..

[toby wilson]

Do I have to make another 'Days of Our Kites' post...? It seems like we have a doozy of an episode brewing here... ;)

[Skyway Scott]

Scott Wolfe and I got the green light from Superintendent Jim Wilson more than 6 months ago to put up a sign and implement the tags out at East Beach. We got the green light after much discussion on here about the signs and the tags.

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4518&highlight=east+beach+sign

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=4572&highlight=wilson

(there is a lot of stuff there, but it's all there)

After many people put in valid ideas and we got the go ahead, several instructors said they would take care of implementing the ideas. They used words like ASAP and urgent when they volunteered.

Six months later, don't point the finger at me Amber and say my "cranky pants" is why this idea never got put in play just because I won't wear a tag at this point (are instructors issuing tags to newbies?).
These ideas never became reality for other reasons, none of which deal with what you and I did back six months ago.
Maybe the sign can still go up? It just honestly seems like no one cares. If they did, wouldn't it be up by now?
I know I don't care much anymore. I just do my own thing. My mistake was posting on here about it in the first place.

[toby wilson]

If you and Scott Wolfe got the green light and made enough effort to get Jim Wilson involved, then why didn't you just take the reins and run with it when you saw nothing happening? I admit, maybe I didn't push as hard as I could have a few months back to make things happen. But neither did you. We all need to stop pointing the finger and start looking in the mirror more.

So it's pretty clean cut Scott. You are either supporting these efforts or you aren't. You haven't even tried working with it and have gone as far as to say that you won't wear a tag. Like someone else posted, newbs usually look up to the more experienced guys and if there are some veteran riders that are unwilling to wear a small tag on their harness, then what do you think newbs are going to say? They aren't going to either. So yes, you are impeding the progress of people trying to implement the tag system Scott.

I know you are a positive person when you want to be. There is no productive reason not to support an effort to make things safer. If you have ideas as to other ways to make it safer to kite around here then the rest of us are all ears. I am open to suggestion and I think that *most* others are too. Maybe we should all just have that meeting that Alex suggested. No alcohol, no BS. Just riders getting together and sharing some ideas that we can build on. I think that Steve S. is organizing some meetings in the coming weeks. You should come, I think getting everyone together will keep all points of view visible and we can get to work on establishing some of the things that 'fell through the cracks' a few months ago, or something completely new that we can ALL agree on...and lets keep it positive! ;)

[Tom Stock]

Quoting from those 6 month old threads Scott linked to:


08-23-2007, 02:03 PM
TritonKiteboarding TritonKiteboarding is offline
Senior Member

Kite-4-Life and Triton Kiteboarding are in the works of organizing signs and a band system. We are using the suggestions from this thread to base our decisions. We will have a meeting this weekend with a number of instructors agree on a final decision about what should be mentioned in signs and how the band system will work, the progress will be updated on the forum and if anyone has any questions call me and i'll fill you in 203 918 6637. We realize the importance and the urgency and were handling the issue asap.
-Matt Sexton
www.TritonKiteboarding.com

I think that pretty much covers it.

[toby wilson]

Cool! Thanks Tom!

[kite-4-life]

I will take full credit for the signs not being installed yet, please keep in mind that since the meeting, I have pretty much been on my own, and I do not have the finances to do this properly. Its not a 10 dollar sign, either, nor a 2.00 tag that will solve our problems. Its building something legitimate and long lasting that doesn't fall apart when the wind starts blowing. It takes the efforts of many, and I am only one person.Startup costs are not cheap, and I have used every extra penny I have to knock out these expenses as I can. My issue isn't time,motivation, dedication, lack of knowledge... its money. I know some have offered assistance, but I can't afford to make a mistake with Uncle Sam in setting up this organization, so I have not pursued it. Old Sambo is kinda picky about taking money before he says its OK. I am trying to balance my existing business,startup kite school, and a non-profit all at once, and make them all work LEGITIMATELY.

Believe me, if I had a fat bank account, this would have been done and in place a LONG time ago and we would be talking about the next great event, what we did to help someone, or what we did to impress the "officials", instead of slinging mud pies back and forth.
I really don't think I have gotten sidetracked by the wind, events, lessons, new gear, or anything else. Some people get excited about the fastest looping kite or the newest light wind boards or whatever- I do not. I get excited about safety, preserving access, and bringing this fine group of locals together as a group. Simply because thats what I know best... I look for solutions, and despite my clownish forum games, I think my posts have shown that, and offered some darn good solutions.
Something else I would like to say is that I have tried to find ways to make this FREE foreveryone and will continue to do so. That has been something VERY IMPORTANT to me and I don't know why. This sport has an average income of probably 60,000+, with kiters spending 2-3000 a year on new gear, so why do I bother? Because I dont want to be accused of ripping someone off or seem like I am trying to make a quick buck off of fellow kiters.If I did, I would be charging top dollar for a lesson and force feeding kites to newbies.

Signs and tags are the best idea presented so far, if you want something else, please figure it out.

There are many launches that could use signs, and the ARE ways to get them installed by working with the "officials", but getting on the same page is first. I don't think signs and tags will immediately solve ANYTHING, especially in the Gulf, but at least is shows an effort to unite.
I have other ideas to contribute,on keeping hot doggers out of the swim zones.
It has nothing to do with forums and calling out, but it does require unity as a group, just like everything else I preach.
It takes the majority of safe kiters to draw a line and stick to it.
More details coming soon.


About meetings:
I am preparing a post to call some meeting(s) to bring together the ones who have been helping me, and the ones who want to move forward.
My goals aren't a secret and never have been, and begging for help has always been a part of it. We need everyone's help by giving this a chance.
I am taking my time on writing the post because I don't want it to be overwhelming or piss anyone off. (imagine THAT!) Theres a lot of things to be discussed, and I want to make sure that everythings covered so we can all just get back to riding and being friends again.
Thanks for reading.
Steve Sadler (813)389-3683

[BigR]

Great Post!

Move things forward, not back!

[Danimal8199]

Jackie Moon once said "Everyone Love Everyone!"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/danimal8199/jackiemoon.jpg

[amber]

scott- i certainly wasn't pointing the finger at you for the tags/signs not becoming a reality. All is was saying was that if this thing can come together again and take off, it would suck to have someone with such a strong voice in the area to mock the effort. Steve and I did product research for the tags,etc but we're both broke and just couldn't front the money to get it off the ground. They did have that meeting and a lot of the instructors did meet up. I wasn't there so I'm not sure what happened/didn't happen there.

Lets stop trying to place the blame on someone and put all that energy towards something positive. please? Making someone a scapegoat for a group effort not being initiated isn't fair. There were MANY of us that could have stepped up but that is all in the past. If the issue has come up again, its probably worth giving it a shot. it probably won't be perfect when it luanches, but there's no reason we can't be flexible with it...

[bayflite]

spoke 2 a freind 2day.
convinced me that i am wrong.
swim zones r 4 swimmers.
not powered vessels.
my bad yawl.
kite safe
its cool
honest

[Woodson]

Edit:

Steve,

I reread your post. Is it possible to request a sticky thread that shows your "business plan" and well as capital needed to make this reality? Being able to review your plan of action will help in shedding light and building community confidence in your plan...


Thanks,


Bryan W.

[kite-4-life]

Right on B!
We all need to realize that kiteboarding evolved from surfing and that surfers in this area are very limited on choices on where to go. Let them enjoy their spots without us buzzing them. Since we are totally mobile and have the entire coast to ride, why don't we agree to not kite at Upham Beach and the other places they go. Give them space and respect and we can minimize confrontation, injuries, and bans. We have enough risk of that already!
On a downwinder with a fellow kiter a few days ago, we had the entire beach to ourselves, with only an occasional swimmer or body boarder in the water. The lead kiter would signal to the upwind rider the location of the swimmer, and then point offshore- as in "Thats where we need to be!" Since we already use universal hand signals for launching and landing, and know the right of way rules, adding another signal to aviod certain areas is easy. Let's try to stay out of any swim area with people in the water and make sure that fellow kiters are aware of the situation, before they send a big one and land on somebody. I don't think giving up a few riding areas is a big deal, either. We are unlimited!

Maybe some fellow surfers could chime in and give us the spots the surf the most, so it is common knowledge where we should avoid. Otherwise, if you see a surfer, please go around their riding area, outside the buoys, and we should all get along just fine!
Any local surfers that are curious about kiting, gimmie a shout and I will hook you up with an intro to kiting class at no charge.
B-Safe
Steve Sadler
(813) 389-3683
IKO Instructor #3481

[kite-4-life]

I would love to Bryan! I am searching for a solution to that problem, as I don't want to put too much info on the forum, it contains some specific info,and some of it should not be public info at this time. If anyone has ideas please let me know ASAP.

send me an email at steve@kite4life.org to get on the mailing list, so I can get everyone interested in the same spot.
Meeting is definitely on for Sunday at 6:00 PM, location will be in central or south Pinellas.
Thanks for your interest!
Steve (813) 389-3683