Howard Park Proposal

[Brian360]

Hey guys I'm tired of kiting at Sunset beach and not be able to kite at Howard Park. Thus I decided to write a proposal/petition to the County Admin to open kiting at FHP. One voice won't make to much of an impact, however, many may persuade them. Here's my proposal so far... You can add or ratify the proposal until it is to 100% satisfaction to make the proposal or petition to Pinellas County. Advise and opinions will be appreciated. Thanks,

Brian


County Park Admin,

Kiteboarding is presently becoming one of the fastest growing water sports in the area. As an avid kiteboarder that kites at Sunset beach in Tarpon Springs, I would love to kiteboard at Howard park due to bigger space, and better wind conditions that Howard has to offer. I'm pretty sure that there is no particular rule on record stating that kiteboarding is not allowed. It's allowed at East beach in Fort Desoto as well as Sand Key. I noticed many recreational signs through out the backside beaches of Howard Park. Kiteboarding, windsurfing, kayaking, and etc. is commonly defined as recreational. From my understanding, approx. 5 years ago a kiter endangered the safety of a few patrons of which when the park supervisor banned the sport completely. One can argue the safety of kiteboarding is to risky, however, kiteboarding has evolved into a safety oriented sport due to requirements or prerequisite to take lessons from certified instructors.
In one proposal, there are many locations that require a rider certification card, such as Crandon Park in Miami. Without this card, you were not able to kiteboard. Rider certification cards are obtained by a certified kiteboard instructor that rate from a Level 1 to Level 3 kiteboarder. This tells the kiteboarders and enforcement officers in the park that they are experienced and acknowledged the safety of others. I would agree that Howard park should only have experienced kiters to launch/land from Howard. It would be no place for beginners. If possible let me know how I would be able to get a proposal in to open kiting at Howard park. Please forward this e-mail to whom this may concern. Thanks,

-Anonymous

[Tom Stock]

My suggestions, have a lawyer write the request (it'll be taken more seriously), and don't sign it as anonymous because it'll discredit you right off the bat. Use your real name.


You should probably Talk to E-Bone (he's a lawyer and a kiteboarder).

[Brian360]

Yea thats exactly why I posted it on here first. I rather have a lawyer write it up to make it more effecient and presentable. Thanks,

-Tax Paying citizen ;) j/j

[Tom Stock]

Right on. Send a PM to E-bone...

[Gui]

BRAVO !
This is a great initiative !
You have my support and you can count on my signature if needed.

[bzh]

Go Brian, Go.

Maybe, you can suggest an authorization from October to April only, ie when it is not much crowded (no lifeguards on duty)...but windy.

Olivier

[bryanleighty]

damn i miss ebone at the beaches...

where the hell is that guy!?

[Jake]

It's definitely worth a try. I've kited at Sunset Beach since 2002 when there were only 1 or 2 kiters there. Lately more are kiting at that location and last Sunday it was crowded, both beach goers and kiters.

Fortunately, we have had no major incidents/accidents, but with more coming there, it will probably be a matter of time. I've stopped a couple of beginners from launching and told them to come back after they take some lessons. One wanted to launch a 20.5 machine in 12m conditions. I told him he would probably injure/kill himself and others as well as getting us banned there.

An obstacle to kiting at FHP will be the Friends of Howard Park, aka windsurfers. Once they hear about our effort they will lobby the park ranger to oppose it. There are areas designated for the PWCs along the causeway and perhaps we can get an area designated for kiting. The windsurfers always want the windward side of the backside beach, so perhaps to get our "foot in the door" we could take the leeward side.

A rider certification card would be great. However, keeping the beginners out will be a problem. Who's going to "police" the kiters to be sure they have a card? How does it work at Crandon? Does the park crew enforce the credentials?

[Chad085]

An obstacle to kiting at FHP will be the Friends of Howard Park, aka windsurfers. Once they hear about our effort they will lobby the park ranger to oppose it. There are areas designated for the PWCs along the causeway and perhaps we can get an area designated for kiting. The windsurfers always want the windward side of the backside beach, so perhaps to get our "foot in the door" we could take the leeward side.

what is it with the poleboarders??? I don't understand why so many of them have such a bad attitude towards kiters. Of course not all of them feel that way, but i guess we must be the "black sheep" of the sailing community. They always ride from howard park over to anclote and 3 rooker to check us out, whats wrong with us riding at fred howard?? I made the "crossing" over to howard from anclote one day with a few others and it looks like a real nice spot to ride. Hopefully we can gain access there, good luck brian thanks for your hard work. Let me know if you need some signatures to help push your proposal

[kite-4-life]

I hadnt been back to crandon since the new deal there, but I am sure Christoph is trying to make it work, not sure if the park backs him up or not.I think its 25 or 30 bux, plus 89.00 IKO insurance that probably doesnt pay U.S. claims.
Windsurfers are pretty cool people and probably out numbered by now, so we do what it takes to get along with them.
Ultimately a "system" has to be enforced at the local level, by the locals. New kiters want to blend in asap, they will want a tag and have to earn it. Thats what it takes to be a kiter, and would be common knowledge.
Theres info posted in various threads about this system on here and on Kiteforum.com.
Lemmie know if you think it would work up there.

[Brian360]

[QUOTE=Jake;29555]
An obstacle to kiting at FHP will be the Friends of Howard Park, aka windsurfers. Once they hear about our effort they will lobby the park ranger to oppose it. There are areas designated for the PWCs along the causeway and perhaps we can get an area designated for kiting. The windsurfers always want the windward side of the backside beach, so perhaps to get our "foot in the door" we could take the leeward side.QUOTE]

I'm setting up a mtg with a few kiters to talk about all aspects and corners to open up kiting as well as launch spots and agreements with the windsurfers their. I talked to some of the windsurfers there. Thus far some of the windsurfers don't mind us kiting their when asked about the topic.

Jake,
Funny thing I mentioned that today to a couple guys, if there a designated area for PWC's along the causeway then you should technically be able to kite there. Obviously I wouldnt launch their, to many mangrove hazards, but in theory it should be open to us. Once again its going to take alot of time and effort for this to happen.

In addition, HP is going to be closed up to a year due to bridge contruction. Therefore, it'll only be boat accessible.
-B

[vstone511]

Brian,
seeing that the park is going to be closed can a boat even make it close enough to unload gear like we do else where will there be a problem with us kiting there while this construction is happening , when is the park gonna be closed ????

[ricki]

Wow, this is probably one of the first areas banned in Florida, over seven years ago. A summary about what kicked things into gear appears below from the kitesrf list on yahoogroups from March 2001.

Getting a petition together in support of kiting at George Howard is a good idea if you want to work towards opening things up again. I would suggest doing some groundwork first before submitting to Whom It May Concern. Try to talk with the Park Manager and explore what he thinks about the way things are going currently. Find out who he reports to and how rules are created and by whom. Ask about things like number of folks using the Park, particularly when strong winds are on and few regular beach goers are present. Is there a full house of windsurfers or have numbers been dropping in recent years? Is there still a local windsurfing club? You might try to see what the Park Manager thinks about the idea, concerns, etc.. Filling him in on how kiteboarding has grown, ideally "matured" and how it can coexist with other beach uses with reasonable management.

What would you think about proposing a designated launch/landing corridor on one end of the island? Looking at what has been made to work in other areas perhaps having kiters on one side (ideally downwind, which shifts with the weather here) and windsurfers on the other.

Are there swim area buoys there? Even if there aren't buoys, is there a watercraft exclusion zone near the beach? Figuring out some criteria in advance on how to help kiting coexist with other uses in advance would be a good direction to proceed in.

Requiring PASA or IKO Level III certification as in the case of Crandon is one approach, still without identifying someone to effectively manage things at the launch, it may not be that helpful. That requirement was instituted at Crandon years ago, no effective means of management was ever established however in times past.


In a message dated 3/28/01 6:52:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, an492@...
writes:


>
> While down in Florida (Tarpon Springs) for a week of excellent
> windsurfing conditions, I took out my kite to give it a try and was
> told rather quickly by the locals that kitesurfing had been banned
> from the area.
>
> When I asked what had happened, it turns out that one kitesurfer who
> had been in the area was very abrupt with the local beach goers
> yelling at them and taking up lots of space with his lines. As a
> result, the beachgoers complained to the park authority who banned all
> watersports from the area (including windsurfing). There is an active
> windsurfing club who quickly looked into the complaints and and talked
> with the park authorities to only ban kitesurfing from the area.
>
> Moral of the story: don't piss off other users of the area you use or
> kitesurfing may be banned as well.
>
> http://www.magma.ca/~richrdsn/p19.htm
>
> Steve.
>

[Brian360]

Brian,
seeing that the park is going to be closed can a boat even make it close enough to unload gear like we do else where will there be a problem with us kiting there while this construction is happening , when is the park gonna be closed ????


Park is scheduled to close sometime after Labor day, probably in October. Again, sometimes these things get delayed. As far as bringing in a boat, well technically your not allowed to come inside the swim area bouys, but since theres no one going to be on the beach, it'll be much like Anclote Key, nobody around, no rangers, no nothing. Therefore, you'll probably get away with it. Its still a long ways away till contruction. I asked the park supervisor if it was ok to kite there when its closed, he said yes because there is no safety concern on the beach while its closed.

[Whitey]

Brian, Give me a call I will help you draft your request.

[bryanleighty]

this should show without a doubt what one a-hole in one situation can do to ruin it for everyone.

at the time tho, i'll bet kiters had next to ZERO representation to go against the park as the windsurfers did.

things have changed, we are a community now, i hope you are able to get this proposal at least considered.. at least get a chance to meet with someone that will give you time to speak your case.

it might just be put aside due to the park simply not wanting to take any risk.. understandable in some sense.

i never ride up there.. just quite a drive for me when i can get to ft. desoto or pass-a-grille in 10 minutes..

but i hope you are able to open it up. if there is any sort of a meeting where we need to represent ourselves in numbers.. absolutely count me in.

-b

[Brian360]

at the time tho, i'll bet kiters had next to ZERO representation to go against the park as the windsurfers did.

things have changed, we are a community now, i hope you are able to get this proposal at least considered.. at least get a chance to meet with someone that will give you time to speak your case.



Proposal has been considered. YEAH! got a reply from Mr. Cozzie, Director of Pinellas County parks.
A presentation is set for either March 20th or May 21st to the Pinellas County Advisory board mtg @ 9:30. I'm probably going to shoot for May 21st. for better preperation or should we speed up things and get a presentation in March 20th?? I'll keep everyone posted. l8er

-Brian

[Chad085]

I'd like to be a part of the effort, let me know what i can do bryan. I'll kite there for sure, so i'd like to see this thing through

[BigR]

get a presentation in March 20th



Pshycologically we would be better with the presentation on march, by end of may the board will be in the mindset of crowded beaches and the people must be protected from kiters.
Right now they are not so much thinking of that and may be more lenient towards letting kitesurfers "use" some of the uncrowded space.
Strike NOW , while the iron is hot!

[Tom Stock]

this should show without a doubt what one a-hole in one situation can do to ruin it for everyone.

fwiw, the guy wasnt being an a-hole.. his kite went down and wouldn't relaunch and we was yelling for some kids to watch out for the lines.

scared the parents and bang, banned.

[Robert]

Brian,I support the letter under certain conditions.
One, Kiteing is open to all kiters not just experts.
Somebody taught you Right??
If a beginer is on the beach he should have instruction with him or have the guys help him out so he does not get in trouble.
Two We as kiters are making judgement on windsurfing guys that they are against us I know for a fact that is not true.
Windsurfers can stay up wind from us for clean air I dont have a problem with that.
Launching and Landing needs to be roped off so we have a section of beach (so a tourist does not get hit on the head)
As for Howard he needs to do 100 comunity hours for starting this whole mess at Fred Howard Park.
Set up a meeting with the Park and we will be there in Force
Robert

[Robert]

Brian,I support the letter under certain conditions.
One, Kiteing is open to all kiters not just experts.
Somebody taught you Right??
If a beginer is on the beach he should have instruction or have the guys help him out so he does not get in trouble.
Two We as kiters are making judgement on windsurfing guys that they are against us I know for a fact that is not true.
Windsurfers can stay up wind from us for clean air I dont have a problem with that.
Launching and Landing needs to be roped off so we have a section of beach (so a tourist does not get hit on the head)
As for Howard he needs to do 100 comunity hours for starting this whole mess at Fred Howard Park.
Set up a meeting with the Park and we will be there in Force
Robert