Rigging and Control 4line LEI

[Purple Hayes]

I have a question regarding control of 4-line LEI kites.

I'm just getting started and per the advice that I keep seeing from the overwhelming majority, I'm trying to go as slowly and smartly as possible.

I'm living in southern Kuwait (not much help down here) and have spent the past three months learning to master a 2.4m Flexfoil traction kite. Before I progress to the next level, I'm trying to get as much info as possible.

I haven't been able to find much info on the internet that covers the complete rigging (from the bar, all the way to the kite attach points) of a 4-line LEI. From what I've seen, it looks to me like the control (outside) lines on the LEI are attached to the trailing edge (opposite of my current kite). I want to know if what I think I'm seeing is correct. If that is the case, what method of control is this (braking, increased lift)? I'm trying to get it straight in my head because it doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks in advance!

Patrick

[Skyway Scott]

Patrick,

Sounds like you are using a quad line traction kite with handles. I used those for use with a buggy. (Flexi.... yeah baby!!)

If you have mastered that kite, then you have a real good understanding of how a kite works.
You do have it right, in terms of the setup on a kite-board kite, with a bar. (it is backwards from your traction kite in terms of leading/trailing... steering/power control)

The biggest difference is that we use a bar and a loop attached to the center lines. The center line with loop runs through the middle of the bar and allows us to sheet in and sheet out (power up and spill power) when that center loop is "anchored" to our harness.
This is different than changing the angle of attack "manually" with each handle by leveraging the handle to increase back line tension for breaking. So, when "hooked in" to this center line loop, when we push the bar away from us, toward the kite, we increase lift and when we pull it towards us (in your mind now with your kite) we "break". The thing is, the kite is so much more powerful that the analogy doesn't stick. It's like trying to "break" a tarpon by tightening drag when you sheet in on a big kite. (It aint happnin')

So, on our kites, when you push the bar away toward the kite, it steals/kills power by spilling wind (increasing lift) and when you pull the bar toward you, it increases power in the kite (up to a point). We can't do this to just one side of the kite independently to increase turning speed like you can with handles on your quad, it's both sides at once for us when we sheet in and out.

You may possibly understand (more than others without quad line experience) that there is a limit to how much you can power up a kite changing the angle of attack, before the "breaks" literally get put on and the kite stalls. Not many of our kites can stall like this, but some can.
So, if you really understand your kite now, it will help you in the long run with our kites.
Especially the idea of efficiency and not "over powering" it to the point of having breaks on.

I think RealKiteboarding has a pretty good instructional video out. I know it was good, I just can't remember the detail they went into with rigging.
Someone may remember the other internet vid that showed how to rig a kite (it met with some controversy).
Let's see what the other guys think about it.

Teaching yourself can be done, if in a no-choice, isolated situation. Sounds like this is your situation.
Getting good information to work with is obviously critical and you know this.

The main difference you will experience is the tremendous power of a LEI, in 15 plus knots. That 2.4 is a great learning kite, but the power difference is nigh and day.
It's fairly overwhelming the first time you experience it.

Good luck.

[Purple Hayes]

Thanks,

Patrick,

Sounds like you are using a quad line traction kite with handles. I used those for use with a buggy.
Yup, that's it.

(Flexi.... yeah baby!!)
Yeah, it's pretty fun to fly. At first I was just looking at buying a small kite merely as a means to an end and wasn't really excited about it. Now that I've pretty well mastered it I'm having a lot of fun.

Teaching yourself can be done, if in a no-choice, isolated situation. Sounds like this is your situation.
Getting good information to work with is obviously critical and you know this.

The main difference you will experience is the tremendous power of a LEI, in 15 plus knots. That 2.4 is a great learning kite, but the power difference is nigh and day.
It's fairly overwhelming the first time you experience it.

Good luck.
Well, I figure I have a pretty good foundation. I was a skater (board) until I was in my late 20's (had to quit after falling started to really hurt (sucks gettin' old)). I've been surfing for 23 years (including four on the North Shore) and I’ve done some wakeboarding and skiing. I'm a pilot and a certified aircraft mechanic (so I figured that I have the aerodynamic understanding pretty well covered as well).
But....I'm trying to approach this from a very humble perspective. I’m planning on buying a 5-7m LEI next. My thinking is that; I can use it to train with and ,down the road, I’ll have something for the real heavy days.

Thanks again for the info and the detailed response. It really helps!

Patrick

[Skyway Scott]

:p

Sounds to me like you are a perfect kiting candidate.
Get that RealKiteboarding cd and go for it. It is obvious your attitude and approach are great.

You are in the middle of nowhere (kiting wise), so...you can't exactly get other kiters banned!! I say go for it man! Let us know how it goes, Patrick.

What wind speed do you encounter most often?
Is it hard to get stuff out there (tax wise)?


Good luck.

[Purple Hayes]

:p
.....You are in the middle of nowhere (kiting wise), so...you can't exactly get other kiters banned!! I say go for it man! Let us know how it goes, Patrick. "Kiting wise", and all together, really! ;) I'll definitely keep you up to date. It seems like I've heard about kiter "black-balling" more than a few times now. I'm guessing that's a big issue back in the States' and, I would imagine, the rest of the civilized world.?. What's the biggest problem?

What wind speed do you encounter most often?

That's the nice part about being a pilot. I have the best seat in the house to check out conditions. The other benefit is that you always have your finger on the pulse of the most current weather. I have access to the lastest, greatest weather equipment and information.
In the past I spent a lot of time looking out the window as we were making our final approach into certain destinations, looking for good surf spots.
These days, I'm looking for wind strength and direction and nice open areas to go kiting.
The trend that I've noticed here, is that, consistently, every afternoon during the warm season (...about Mar-Oct :( ) you can count on a 10-15kt onshore breeze. The combination of the desert heat and cooler Persian Gulf water means that there is a consistent seabreeze effect most of the year.

During the heart of the summer we also have sand storms once or twice a week (15-30kts+). The idea of going out during a sandstorm probably sounds a little whack'd but the dust here is about the consistency of talcum powder. People go about their daily routine during the sand storms, like any other day. You do have to get used to, on occasion, that feeling of grit in your mouth during the real bad days. :( I'm actually looking forward to getting to the level where I can go out during one!

Is it hard to get stuff out there (tax wise)?

...not exactly sure I understand... Do you mean import tax? If so, no.

Taxes aren't a problem. (There aren't any.) There's actually a little bit of a cash glut here (Did you really think you were paying $3/gal because the fuel was actually becoming more expensive to produce? ). So, at this point, their cash cow is making enough so that they're not getting creative with taxes.......yet.

That's one of the only "up's" to this gig (makes for a great paycheck). The way that I usually purchase big items is via EBay (EBay’s taking over the world!). Then I have my wife FedEx it to me (and FedEx is helping them). The only downside to this process is the fact that; the idea of a mail system and street addresses hasn't quite caught on here in the ME. It can be a real cr@p-shoot. (usually 60-70% odds for success)

While on the subject of wind strength and cr@pshoots; at 185#, what's the smallest kite I can realistically use (with regard to the previously mentioned LEI that I'm considering)?

Patrick

[Skyway Scott]

I know your area and Bush and buds are making a killing, it’s not rocket science.

I meant import tax, cool….

I would stick with those 10 to 15 knot days for at least 6 months, if not forever, if you guys basically have nothing in between that and BIG wind.
The step up to big wind is very dangerous, alone.
Get a buddy out there hooked, that’s the best bet of all to being safe out there. Ride together.

The launching becomes more hairy and everything else does too in 25 plus knots. The riding can be safe with practice, but it’s the getting the kite up and down that is real sketchy. The power of the wind at 25 is pretty unreal, mistakes are punished much more quickly and with much more authority. Basically, it’s exponentially more dangerous and things go wrong ten times more quickly in 25 compared to 15. 30 is really serious wind.

For the 10 to 15, which is great learning stuff and just plain fun, anyway, I would get a new 17m Waroo or a used 16m waroo and I would get a large board. Something like the crazy fly 145 by 44. Don’t get anything smaller than the 152 UG. Trust me on that one. Width is more important than length (plane-able surface). I think you should stick with the light winds and have a friggin’ blast in the safer stuff until you hook a buddy up.

http://oceanextremesports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_23_76&products_id=378

or Underground 152
http://www.watersportswest.com/shopcart/agora.cgi?product=Kitesurfing&user3=board

At 185, in 10 to 15, you need a bigger kite. You could make a 15m Waroo work, but as long as you have the discipline to not go out when it's a sand storm, I would get the 17m.

Those boards I mentioned won't do so hot in the bigger winds either. You are going to be limited to 20 knots and under, and I really think you should promise yourself to stay in less than 20.
The gear I mentioned will be a blast in 15 knots, not schlogging barely having fun, but a blast. The gear I mentioned will start to become unmanageable at 20 knots. That's good, imo. Built in safety mechanism forcing you off of the water.

Extreme kites will more than likely ship to you. They have shipped to Qatar, Kuwait, you name it. I remember shipping to some places I had never heard of before.
Watersports West might as well, I am not sure. Call and ask both places.

Ebay is reasonable. Ikitesurf.com has more selection.

The kite shipping fee won’t be that bad, but the board fee will be bad (possibly not even “legal” by USPS size standards).
But, maybe a pilot buddy can fly it in for you?

To your smallest kite question and using it down the road. I am against going out in the heavy stuff alone and want to make that clear. But, a 7m Waroo is the answer.
It would be a good kite to get the feel of LEI kites with, before just hopping on a big 17m kite.

In 12 knots, with reasonable kite control (I think you have it), you aren't gonna get whacked too bad, even on the 17. Don't get me wrong, treat it with respect, you can get hurt! But in 20.... dude... it'd be close to suicide to put that 17 up on your virgin flight.

Oh, quick release on your kite and kite leash. Dream about them at night. They are your friends.

If you decide to do business with Extreme kites, tell them Scott sent you.
I don't get anything from it, just a warm feeling knowing Rob and Daryl's faces would turn sour.
(they have had some bad situations come out of Qatar and places where you think ---- "sand") :confused::cool::eek:

To cover my own butt here. I have a made a judgement call on giving you advice. It is based on you seeking info and you appear to have a good attitude, approach etc. Not giving info would be dumb.
You don't have access to lessons. AND, you can't get other kiters banned, so ..... this could be fun hearing of your exploits.
Buy some good instructional vids, a wind meter, and shoot for days where it is blowing 13 to 15 knots and get ready to have a blast, Patrick.

If you were here, I would be leaning on lessons and cold shouldering you if you didn't.
But, you aren't.

Black balling etc. Nah... we help each other out, by recommending lessons and keeping it safe.

You are about to experience the most excitement possible in sports. I am jealous.
It's the learning that was the EXTREME fun in this sport. I still love to kite and do all the time. Nothing is better. But, the first 2 years are by far, the best. Let us know what happens. I know I am interested. You will get a lot of advice on here, hopefully from others too, in the future.

Bleighty and Invisible and Toby and all others on here are great.
The instructors can't just hop on and give info for liability reasons. I can. Patrick, I really want to hear these stories. Keep us posted.

[Purple Hayes]

Actually, it sounds like you and I are on the same page. When I surfed the North Shore, I had a buddy that liked to go out on the biggest days possible. I went out on a few times and it felt, to me, like being towed behind a ski-boat at 60mph (just skipping across the face of the wave).

I was assuming kite size and wind speed were inversely proportional (stronger wind+smaller kite=same speed). I suppose that idea probably stands true to some degree but I think I see your point. Just like with surfing; I'd rather be out carving on a small to medium day than getting flung across the water, out of control, on a big day.

As far as a buddy, as luck would have it, I just found out that one of my new copilots decided he wants to try it also. He just picked up a 16m kite. He can't remember the manufacturer (we're on the road right now), and he's Danish, so he'd have a tough time explaining it anyway. jk

I appreciate your vote of confidence. I have three young children, trust me, my days of going out blindly into the abyss are over (they were fun while they lasted).

My buddy has a Boost II DVD, so I'm going to check that out. He's also taking a very safe approach. He told me that he's watched the video twenty times already and plans to watch it "a hundred more." Also, I found a pretty good site with free downloads of instructional tips and tricks.

http://kitefilm.com/eng/weeklytrick.asp

Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Skyway Scott]

Cool. You should share his kite for awhile.
You are "clear for take-off". Keep us in touch.
Maybe a photo of you next to a camel or sumtin.

[ricki]

I think that there may actually be shops in Kuwait and still others in some of the Gulf States. If you google "Kuwait kiteboard" you'll see some prospects.

If you can do a weekend trip to a good facility over there from some quality instruction I think you will move well along the learning curve. If not, your progress may be slower and risks greater but nothing new there. Not all instruction is the same in terms of quality. You would do well to ask them some questions, some ideas appear at:

http://www.fksa.org/showthread.php?t=656

Next, I would recommend spending some time looking over the guidelines that appear at the link below. Virtually all of these guidelines have been derived from past accident analysis. Just as it can hard (impossible) to summarize safe flight procedures on an index card for powered aircraft, the same might be said about kiteboarding. Details.

http://fksa.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29

While your at it, look over some of the case studies. It is always good to try to learn from the mistakes of others rather than volunteering for first person experience. There are still more case studies in other parts of the site.

You might do well to hook up with a "flat" kite around 12 m. If you are targeting winds that are 10 to 15 mph you may want to go a bit larger. For appropriate winds you should find your learning progress will be faster. You don't want to go out overpowered particularly while you are learning.

[Skyway Scott]

Keep us posted Patrick.

Rick offered great advice. I think in 10 to 15 you will be walking back a bit on a 12, but probably better safe than sorry. Don't go out in sandstorms. ;)

[jimb]

Purple Hayes, you may want to check out totalvid.com, they have several instructional videos you can download and either "rent" for a week for $4-5 or join for unlimited downloads for $10 per month. I think it's well worth it either way. Good luck!

[Purple Hayes]

Thanks guys.

There is a shop in Kuwait City (about 45 miles from me) but I've been told that they sell gear only (and at 1.5-2 times the regular price). I don't have much faith in "all things Kuwaiti", so I may have to plan a trip to Doha or Dubai.
.....Just as it can be hard (impossible) to summarize safe flight procedures on an index card for powered aircraft, the same might be said about kiteboarding. Details..... It is always good to try to learn from the mistakes of others rather than volunteering for first person experience....
I agree, I've made a safe living in airplanes by adhering to that philosophy. I fully understand why you guys would be apprehensive about offering pointers. As you say, if the tables we're turned, I wouldn't want to encourage someone to go fly an airplane after only having read a book about it.

I'm going to look into a trip to Dubai or Doha.

Thanks again....

[ricki]

sounds good Patrick. there should be some good operations somewhere in the Gulf.

just had a thought about kiting in sand storms, electrostatic shock. we sometimes have shocks over water. it can be more intense in snow. I imagine sand/dust might generate some strong discharges. do you have issues with that off airframes in dust storms?

[Purple Hayes]

sounds good Patrick. there should be some good operations somewhere in the Gulf.

just had a thought about kiting in sand storms, electrostatic shock. we sometimes have shocks over water. it can be more intense in snow. I imagine sand/dust might generate some strong discharges. do you have issues with that off airframes in dust storms?

That's pretty interesting! I've worked around helicopters a lot, so I have some pretty good (and painful) experience with static discharge and "flying things." ;)

Actually, the static (with regard to aircraft) isn't really an issue during sandstorms.

I'm originally from south FL. By that distinction, as I'm sure you can appreciate, I've flown through quite a few thunderstorms. Flying through heavy rain (even w/o lightning) is much worse! In heavy rain, the static being "wicked" off of the airframe makes the radios completely unusable at times.

We do experience static shocks around here a lot but I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the dry air (the jolts don't appear to be any more intense when there are heavy visible particles in the air). I think it's more akin to what you experience up north during the winter.

[Ron]

Hi Patrick,

There are others in Kuwait that Kitesurf and/or Groundboard/Buggy. We have an informal group that mostly communicates via SMS messages or just turns up when the wind blows. Your certainly welcome.

Some folks here taught themsleves to kite, others have gone off to Egypt or Europe to learn. I'd be glad to assist you with the basics if your serious about learning.

Here is a link to a forum that will give you a lot of the information you'll need to know about kiting in Kuwait such as safety, riding spots, where to get gear, etc...

http://kuwaitkite.10.forumer.com/index.php

I'm in Salmiya. Mobile 788.4934

[Ron]

Rick,

This has nothing to do with airframes, but kiting in the sandstorms here in Kuwait is a blast. In the summer, the best winds in Kuwait (The Al-Baraweh Shamals) are often accompanied by sandstorms.

One of my most memorable sessions was in a sandstorm that limited visbility so much that the local fisherman dropped anchor on their Dhows (traditional arab boats) because visibility was limited to about 50 meters. It can be a bit unerving to be out to sea on a kite with that kind of limited visbility.

Fortunetely, there isn't much traffic on the water during sandstorms. The potential for problems is actually much higher in Kuwait, on certain beaches, when the weather is clear, as there are more pleasure craft on the water and people on the beach. In the sandstorms, there are usually only one or two kook kiters out:)

[ricki]

Hello Ron,

Thanks for the input. I guess that despite having all the moving particles for friction something else isn't right to cause static buildup. Perhaps it's related to higher humidity or something. That seems to have been a factor in kite line discharges in the past, more about kiting and shocks HERE (http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=669). Glad it isn't an issue for you though.

Kiting in limited viz., that has to be a trip. Particularly since it sounds like your odds of a collision diminish rather than increase. I would not want to run into one of those high bowed Dhows at speed, ouch! In your case the wind serves as a good point of reference I would guess? I remember doing a reef survey 20 miles off Tampa in December. We were working from Zodiac's supported by a 175 ft. research vessel. A heavy fog had set in and we would lose sight of the mother ship under 100 ft. away. It was a bit unnerving without ready point of reference, compass, GPS, etc..

Ron I just sent you an email regarding your kiting experience in Kuwait, it would be great to learn more about it.

[Purple Hayes]

That's good news!

Thanks Ron.

That's funny that you mention the visibility, I thought (before listening to Rick's points) that would be my only reservation. I had this image of launching off of Salmiya losing sight of land pretty quickly, tacking back after a little while (but a few degrees off of my original line) and landing miles from where I started.

I think you really have to experience the dust, first hand, to appreciate it. One of my strongest memories of it was when I first got here; it was 3am and I looked out my window and saw what I thought was FOG (I didn't think sand storms occured at night and there wasn't much wind blowing). I could see halos around the street lights and the visibility was down to around 50m. That's the funny thing about the dust, it doesn't always require a strong wind to bring the visibility down. (there are a lot of factors such as convective lifting that stir the stuff up) When I stepped outside though, I could literally taste it!


Hi Patrick,

There are others in Kuwait that Kitesurf and/or Groundboard/Buggy. We have an informal group that mostly communicates via SMS messages or just turns up when the wind blows. Your certainly welcome.

Some folks here taught themsleves to kite, others have gone off to Egypt or Europe to learn. I'd be glad to assist you with the basics if your serious about learning.

Here is a link to a forum that will give you a lot of the information you'll need to know about kiting in Kuwait such as safety, riding spots, where to get gear, etc...

http://kuwaitkite.10.forumer.com/index.php

I'm in Salmiya. Mobile 788.4934

[Skyway Scott]

I want to see pics of you riding in this stuff. I guess the photographer will have to be close to see anything at all?

[Purple Hayes]

I want to see pics of you riding in this stuff. I guess the photographer will have to be close to see anything at all?

Welp.... the hot season is rapidly approaching.
Learning to kitesurf might take a little while but going down to the beach and taking some pictures shouldn't take much effort.
I'll see if I can deliver on that request.


:cool:

[Ron]

Rick,

The info on the lightning is very informative. I learned to ride in Kuwait and have never ridden when the potential for lightning is present. The rainy season here is quite cold and damp and mostly puts one off from kiting in the rain and cold that are present when there is lightning in Kuwait.

The Al-Baraweh winds that bring the duststorms will start around June and can continue thru August-September. During this time, Kuwait City receives very fierce NW winds that blow down from the desert interiors of Iraq and northern Kuwait. The average wind speed during these storms is 20-28mph with frequent gusts into the 30ish mph range, The highest gust that I've personally measured was 42mph but are reportedly much higher in the interior. These northerly winds are most often accompanied by wicked dust storms that can reduce visibility to a few meters.

As Patrick said, one really has to see them to experience the full sensation. At night, these duststorms are just plain eeire and they can literally turn day into night. The worst duststorms I personally experienced in Kuwait were touched off my movement of forces into Iraq in 2003. I was working as a US contractor at the time and the duststorms were so severe that they set of the US troops chemical alarms.The dust is so fine that it blows thru window sills and doorframes and leaves everything with a fine coating.

Patrick, I wouldn't recomend going out in these winds until you've mastered riding upwind and are familiar with Kuwaits waters and riding out a gust. It's a bit disconcerting at first, not being able to see the shoreline because of reduced visibility. I remember my first session in a duststorm, my buddy just disapeared into the dust about 50 meters from shore and it took a couple tacks for me to get used to riding in the reduced visibility:D It's often very gusty during these winds so a helmet and impact vest is also highly recomended.

Scott, I don't have any pics of riders in the sandstorms but I hope to take some when the sandstorms come this summer. Until then, I'll post a pic of a sandstorm and a pic of one of the local kite spots, just for visual reference.


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3852/sandstormyw0.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandstormyw0.jpg)
Sandstorm at a military base in Kuwait

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7084/knownothingsdv4.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=knownothingsdv4.jpg)
Some locals kiters on a clear day

[Skyway Scott]

Cool pics. What is the average wind speed you ride in if you are not riding in the storms?

[Ron]

The average wind speed in Kuwait is about 14mph from the Northwest. However, Kuwait rarely gets clean consisent winds. 90% of windy days are gusty days. One learns how to spot and ride out gusts really quickly here.

About 60% of sessions are light to medium wind (10-20 mph) sessions.

[Skyway Scott]

So, what is your guy's approach to making the gusts manageable?
I would probably be on a 13m kite with a slightly larger board to ride out those lulls.

Have you found a "magic gust muncher" kite yet?

St. Pete isn't so gusty per se (moment to moment), but we encounter changing wind speeds (over time) throughout the day a lot. Having the wind jump from about 13 to 20 and then back down and then back up (in waves of 25 minutes) is moderately common.

You guys must be thankful that alternatives to C kites exist. :)

[Skyway Scott]

So, what is your guy's approach to making the lulls manageable?
I would probably be on a 13m kite with a medium sized board (43 wide) to ride out those lulls. That has to be a topic of your guy's conversations there, the best approach to gusty winds.

St. Pete isn't so gusty per se (moment to moment), but we encounter changing wind speeds (over time) throughout the day a lot. Having the wind jump from about 13 to 20 and then back down and then back up (in waves of 25 minutes) is moderately common. So, we deal with that here too, just on different time frames.

You guys must be thankful that alternatives to C kites exist. :)
I know kiting for me is much more pleasurable now than a few years ago.

[Ron]

I started learning with a C kite. However, I switched to ARCs (Guerilla I and II's) while learning to kite after having one too many leading edge bladder punctures and bladder leaks due to excessive heat. The gust absorption was a pleasant surprise discovered afterwards! My personal opinion is that nothing eats a gust like a Peter Lynn ARC kite. I still have one C kite but haven't pumped it in ages. I just can't be bothered with it. But we have the occasional ARC vs C vs Bow discussions here:p

I now ride a Venom 13 and 19 quiver. These two kites allow me to handle 95%of the wind speeds encountered in Kuwait. I'm about 90k so I don't have much trouble holding down the 13 in 25-30 mph winds. Around 30 mph wind speed It starts to get dicey as teh gusts can hit upwards and over 40 mph. I've often thought of buying a 8m or 10m for days when the 13 is just too much, but can't justify the added expense as I'd use the kite maybe five or six times a year. However, I am thinking of buying a Flysurfer Speed 17 or Speed 2 19 to use as a light wind kite. If I bite the money bullet, I'd probably be able to get about 20-25 extra sessions a year in as my Venom 19 is not really a proper light wind kite. One rider here has a slingshot machine 25.5 and he is able to get a session in when I'm sitting on the beach.

As far as I know, I'm the only rider in Kuwait that rides ARC Kites. Every one else I know rides a C or a bow as that is what they learned on, don't really understand ARCs', and ARC's aren't sold in Kuwait. I laugh every summer while people are repairing bladder nipples and heat induced bladder leaks. It's amusing to watch the look on someones face that has just asked me "what the hell kind of kite is that?" spend ten minutes pumping a kite in 120 degree heat heat only to find that the glue on the bladder has melted away.;) The Venom also suits my riding style and is quite an improvement on the Guerilla's but I'd prefer the ARCs for kiting in Kuwait just on durability issues alone.

[BigR]

Thats just too hot for me, I remember moving to/ living in Tucson in October and as soon as May/ June came, Argh!!!!! 115 deg middle of day!

Thank goodness we scrambled for Mex every weekend where it was cooler and windier :o and more water!