Self Regulation at Ft. Desoto [Archive]

shawnwar4586

10-16-2006, 10:20 PM

Rule 1 kite leash not an option must be worn at all times.
Consiquence cut lines
Rule 2 Stupidity not tolerated, i.e. Friends teaching friends, teaching to close to shore, newbie launching up wind of experienced riders and going down wind right through them.
Consiquence cut lines
Rule 3 no crashing kite on shawn due to stupidity
Consiquence board off to bitch slap
Perfect ridding at eb Pricless

But now on a more serious note i have seen a lot of bull shit and kooks in hatteras. Think its bad in tampa go to kite point on a weekend aka kook hole. I saw a guy let go of his kite without a leash and it wrapped around another kite and almost drug the into highway 12.

We need some type of rules. I dont think registering with the county is the smartest idea because it will be more a hassel for them than anything. But self regulation and asking for a sign on the west side of the road displaying kiting rules is not a bad idea. If its on the west side of the road it should not affect launching and landing. I think some of the rules should be

1) kite leash at all times no excuse
2) no teaching from shore (its already illegal to teach at eb per the taking money for a service at a county park law)
3) no standing on beach with kite in the air RIDE OR LAND
4) Launch un-hooked
5) launch kite pointed at water
Fill in as necessary

Optionryder420

10-16-2006, 10:54 PM

The **** with that shit.

I'm fully capable of meeting all of those requirements, but in no way am I going to even try to if they are implemented.

I stay out of everyone's way, others just need to learn the same. Steve was downwind teaching and I'd walk through the grass out of his way the best that I could. I was underpowered a little later on so I had no choice but to walk upwind through that area a few times.

People need to learn not to sit on the beach with their kite straight overhead. Some guy was waiting for someone to land his kite, I walked about 15' away from him and he flew his kite almost directly into mine, and mine was at about 11oclock over on the water side. The guy was sitting and bitching about someone sitting on a truck not landing his kite even though he patted his head.

Who was it sitting on the truck? My friend, whom doesn't kite at all and doesn't know what the hell patting your head means. I tell the guy after just walking upwind of him "That guy doesn't kite, he doesn't know how to land a kite." What kind of response do I get? "Well he needs to learn!"
Well you need to learn to put your kite low moron, not fly it RIGHT into the path of mine...

Make sure when you launch your kite, you're ready to go. Don't sit there looking like you're ready to launch waiting for a while with your lines up in the way. Once your kite is launched, HEAD OUT! Don't sit on shore blabbing with your friends about your new board or whatever. If you're going to talk, land your kite and wind up the lines. Make kiting a little bit easier for all of us.

I set my kite up, launch and am immediatly out on the water. If I have my kite up in the air and I'm not riding, I'm WELL out of the way of people launching. Hence why I tend to park farther away from other people and am usually by myself or have one person with me to launch for me.

Less jibba jabba, more kiting.

PS: Downwind=kite low
Upwind=kite high.

JoshTaylor

10-17-2006, 04:57 AM

4) Launch un-hooked
why launch un-hooked?? I fly bows, and launch hooked in everytime.

only problem i had was people not looking behind them before they turn around and almost running into me.

I didn't see any other incidents, I was to focused on riding.

bryanleighty

10-17-2006, 07:32 AM

this has come up before.. i think Scott or others could probably go into more detail..

here's the thing tho..

if the county was involved in anyway and if something did occur wouldnt they then be responsible and liable?

its been said last season over and over again..

EVERYONE SHOULD START SAVING THEIR MONEY TO BUY A BOAT...

its the only way to be sure you'll have access to a launch site.

:shock:

inferno

10-17-2006, 08:04 AM

only problem i had was people not looking behind them before they turn around and almost running into me.

just so everyones aware, it is not your job to look behind when you decide to change directions (its a really good idea though) the person being ovetaken has the right of way, not the overtaker, so if your coming close behind someone you need to anticipate that at some point they are going to change direction and you need to be out of there way,
correct me if im wrong...

bryanleighty

10-17-2006, 08:46 AM

i think you are correct danny per the "by the book" right of way rules.. but on a very very crowded kite beach riders ABSOLUTELY MUST assume that someone is behind them and ensure all is clear to turn. what if the rider behind crashed and is unable to give right of way.. at that point HE is to be given right of way due to the fact that he is at a standstill and has very limited ability to clear way.

i try to stay far enough behind someone so that i can veer off if they turn unexpectantly ..

also I look EVERYTIME i turn..

it should be a natural habit, just like changing lanes in a car.. glance back.. coast is clear.. make your turn.. everyone has fun..

turn w/o looking, tangle a line, does not matter at that moment who is too blame cuz you are both f**ked.

toby wilson

10-17-2006, 08:48 AM

....................

toby wilson

10-17-2006, 08:51 AM

Ok, now I see that the insurance is for the instructors. Agreed.

E-Bone

10-17-2006, 08:59 AM

I think Shawn's 5 rules are enough, even though a lot of people will argue the unhooked launching rule (yeah, I know Shawn, that rule is big in OBX because of what happened there on a hooked launch several years ago, I think to J.T.). Keep it simple. We've been over and over the pros and cons of getting the government entangled in this before and I remain opposed to it.

Self-regulation is the key. There is a big local scene here and it seems like whenever it is windy there are 10+ people around that I know. When a beginner or a visitor from out of town starts to do kooky shit at one of our few spots, we need to talk to that person and let him or her know that the conduct is not acceptable. If it continues despite all heroic efforts, get some back-up and cut their lines. If we stick together as a group on this, it should work.

I think that self-regulation can be hard to do because people typically don't like confrontation. It's easier to pass the buck and ask somebody else to regulate our conduct when a few of us are stepping out of line. It takes some bravery and conviction to tell another kiter that he or she is making bad decisions that are bad for all of us.

Cutting someone's lines is a drastic remedy and should not be done without some serious thought and unless all other approaches fail. Still, it is what it is. You take a drunk's car keys away. You take a punk's kite lines away. The old schoolers have been using this method in severe situations for years and it is a kiteboarding custom to deal with kookiness that way. A noob hitting someone with a 15m kite is enough, in my mind, particularly with having an attitude afterward, to merit at least a threat of same should the noob refuse to pack it up.

Finally, let me note that the persons that I perceive to be dangerous to our access are typically beginning kiters who don't know any better, visitors from out of town who don't care about access here, or a combination of both. The beginners will likely want to fit in around here and earn their spots in the lineup, and it is in our interest to help them to become solid members of the local scene. The visitors from out of town who are reckless because of apathy to our scene will likely be hesitant to take on 15 local kiters. Either way, peer pressure (the good kind) should work wonders.

shawnwar4586

10-17-2006, 09:49 AM

Josh I agree that bow kite users should launch hooked in. Danny right of way rules state that a rider with right hand forward has righ of way so if the ridder turning around has left hand forward or is downwind of the other rider than the rider has right of way no matter what. Also it says in sailng right of way that you should avoid collision at all times no matter what. So Yes it is your responsibility to look behind you. I know were all guilty of not doing it even me. But that is the right of way rules regarding that.

tomstock

10-17-2006, 12:58 PM

amber

10-17-2006, 03:40 PM

Steve- I think you have some good ideas, but i also think you are getting a little ahead of yourself on some of this. I will tell anyone and everyone that I am a certified "USA Waterski" waterski and wakeboard coach. I am proud of it and the training that i went thru, as well as the instruction I can provide. USA Waterski is the governing body of skiing. In order to become a member, you simply pay dues, register, and get a card in the mail. This membership provides accident insurance in any "sanctioned" events, as well as other benefits.(for more details visit www.usawaterski.org) At any tournaments, competitors must sign waivers much like the Tampa Bay Kitemasters waivers for each event, as well as prove USA Waterski Membership. That sport has been around for a very long time, and has gone thru several programs to reach their current status. Yes, it’s a much different sport, but they also went thru a lot of grassroots recruiting and development and could be a great jumping off point for a similar organization for kiters.

Now if I choose to go out on the boat waterskiing on my local lake, I cannot assume that every other boat driver on the water is certified or that they even know how to drive a boat, nor can I or should I. I can only assume responsibility for myself and I need to be aware of my surroundings at all times. Nowhere does it state in the worldwide sport of waterskiing that you can't come ski on this public lake if you're not certified. Sure, you can't compete in my event if you're not certified, but we can't control everyone and quite frankly its not "our beach" (although sometimes it feels that way).

A state park with a public beach is a place for people to come and do their own thing. Unfortunately that involves stupid tourists and non-locals who aren't familiar, putting us all at risk. We need to do what we can to "self-regulate", and be approachable enough to offer advice about the launch sites to people we don't recognize. I have seen Scott approach a new rider at the Skyway...step into the water and give him some advice about safety issues and make the decision that either the kite needs to be brought down and the rider needs some lessons, or if he simply needs to be pointed towards an area with less hazards. He did not need to cut the kid's lines or threaten him, but he got his point across and now the guy knows.

I think a sign at the beach with a "kite at your own risk" and a few general rules is a great idea, and would be very easy to implement. I don't think that you are going to be able to require me to get a level 3 IKO/PASA card to fly my kite at East Beach. There will be time between my lessons with instructors and when I reach level 3. I will not be paying 60-100 dollars per hour so an instructor can watch me practice body dragging upwind or relaunching my kite. I believe everyone should go thru lessons to learn the self-rescue, safety systems of the kites and information about how to read weather, hazards, etc.

Everyone should be STRONGLY encouraged to take lessons. I just don't think that at this point in time, you can stop me, or anyone else from launching at East Beach without my official Level 3 card. (however, I do think something like that could DEFINITELY be implemented in an event... especially a 25 mile race)”

I just wanted to bring some perspective from another sport that has resulted in many deaths and injuries, but is governed well now and has set itself up properly
8)

toby wilson

10-17-2006, 04:25 PM

..........

Optionryder420

10-17-2006, 10:38 PM

tomstock

10-18-2006, 06:15 AM

bryanleighty

10-18-2006, 07:05 AM

If you guys are talking about certifying regular riders as opposed to instructors, that's bullshit.

I have no certification of ANY sort and I haven't caused problems. And I don't see myself getting any certification ever.

I hear you man.. and i also am of the attitude that "its others causing the problem.." ..

BUT.

if we self regulated that you must have a cert card to kite in certain areas (even tho it might not be anything that could really be enforced) it carries with it some weight when talking to a newbie who is launching his kite..

"Do you have your certification to ride here??"

"Umm.. certification??"

"Yes.. you MUST have your certification to ride here..." etc.. etc..

might work for some.. might not for others..

I dont know.. seems like we need some way to sound official when talking to a new rider about responsibility and keeping the beaches safe.

then again.. i hit the beach.. i rig and i get the F*CK out on the water and dont come back into until i am ready to leave.

ricki

10-18-2006, 08:50 AM

We have already been kicked out of other state parks for not dealing with issues. If there is a problem, it would be good to plan to tackle it in the most effective way feasible.

What Steve described is an approach being used or considered for other designated launches with existing problems. These launches are on both private and public property. In time, as access is threatened in other areas, this approach may expand, ideally based upon need.

Is it right for Ft. Desoto? That is up to you to decide or more likely leaders among you. Building consensus is important as is action, when and where it is needed. Good luck, you guys have a great thing in Desoto, it is worth working to maintain access.

An article largely from a Park Manager's perspective appears in "Parks and Recreation" at:
http://www.fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=95

tomstock

10-18-2006, 09:08 AM

Optionryder420

10-18-2006, 09:51 PM

Protecting our spot is as simple as not ever speaking to any officials. Just make sure accidents don't happen and we'll be fine.

toby wilson

10-18-2006, 09:56 PM

...........

ricki

10-18-2006, 10:01 PM

Protecting our spot is as simple as not ever speaking to any officials. Just make sure accidents don't happen and we'll be fine.

Often, it isn't a single accident or even a series that force us out of a launch. More often than not it is a long series of complaints, observations by authorities of poor rider behavior and concern over possible accidents. These things have closed access many times over in numerous areas. Of course accidents only throw more fuel on the fire burning out our access.

So, in addition to making sure that there are not accidents. You should add some other things to your list, like,

- stopping the cause of repetitious complaints from other users of the park.

- stopping riders from showing issues to the rangers first hand.

- establishing good lines of communication between the authorities and responsible local kiters. If all they hear are complaints and see things that cause them concern, who will speak for us then? I believe there are kiters at Desoto that already maintain healthy lines of communication with the authorities in an effort to preempt problems. You are right in that you don't want to set yourself up for failure or overt regulation out of hand. Merely providing a responsible point of contact for the rangers if they have a beef or just want to compliment something that kiters have done can make a difference. This has been a valuable early warning system MANY times at launches all over like Ft. Lauderdale, Pompano, Key West, Crandon Park, Jupiter, Tybee Island, Oahu, Maui, Hayling, Island, England, West Dennis and many more sites that immediately come to mind.

It isn't all that simple or easy to accomplish. Some ideas are being passed around, I would continue to explore viable options. Doing nothing has been proven already by lost access in other areas, NOT to work.

shawnwar4586

10-18-2006, 10:08 PM

Just so were clear desoto is a county park not a state park. If it were a state park then you would pay more money to get in.

tomstock

10-18-2006, 10:18 PM

Optionryder420

10-19-2006, 12:39 AM

I don't think we've had complaints from anyone. People love driving by, stopping, and watching us kite.

Only thing I believe we have to worry about are accidents.

bayflite

10-19-2006, 06:26 AM

one of the best preventative measures we all could do is warn lookilou's that they are in a danger zone.

i dont feel like i should have2 pay to recieve the blessings of pasa iko cia or nambla. Y

you pasa/iko dudes/dudettes are a great asset2 our community, but whats wrong with a day where everyone gets evaluated no charge...that is more palatable IMHO.

why should an obviously squared away rider have 2 pay $20 for someone with half the expierience (just cuz they have taken a course) to give em the nod.

it just doesn't pass the smell test.

also...and i'm guilty of this, but please please stop drinking alcohol at desoto...go2 MAD beach if your into Xrated kiting, drinking is leagal there.

peace

amber

10-19-2006, 08:09 AM

Certification is MORE THAN LIKELY to be required in future organized events. It would not be a bad idea to get certified if you plan on competing. However, if you have had basic instruction and are comfortable on your own, I see no reason for someone to decide to require certification if you are riding for recreation.

Things like large turnouts for pinellas county beach cleanups are a way for the kiting community to show our appreciation for the use of the beaches and keep a positive image in the eyes of rangers, etc.

We don't need to hide from the authorities, but at this point, I don't think we need to ask them to enforce a rule that hasn't even been agreed upon. I think Bryan L's idea of having a good attitude and approaching someone and taking it from there is our best bet right now. Chances are that if its blowin, there will be a large group of "local experienced riders" goin'. As a group, decisions can be made on a case by case basis as to the best way to handle a situation/person if it appears to be a dangerous situation.

tomstock

10-19-2006, 08:56 AM

bryanleighty

10-19-2006, 11:06 AM

Protecting our spot is as simple as not ever speaking to any officials. Just make sure accidents don't happen and we'll be fine.

hey man.. i do not want to be calling you out on this, but this is really not the attitude that we should be having..

accidents are by definition events that occur without warning, by mistake, etc. you are as prone to this happening as anyone else and dont ever think you are not. equipment failure, unexpected weather changes, injury.. you cant say any and all of this cannot occur..it does and it will..

with experience you greatly lessen the chances for these to occur by recognizing potential problems before they occur. BUT .. look at the number of serious injuries .. most all are experienced riders that got relaxed about safety and thought they could overcome situations where they should have been more cautious.

a new rider is just as dangerous as an experienced rider that thinks he/she is beyond getting caught in a bad situation..

look at the guy w/o a leash on saturday.. he is a great kiter.. his kite got away twice.. flew through the beach with children playing on it..

Can you imagine what could have happened if the bar had caught one of those kids???????

we would lose skyway for sure. absolutely and without question..

my plan is to do what i can to help and keep the beaches as safe as possible and be as responsible of a rider as i can be. i know you (and others) are doing the same.. just need to understand that no one is beyond an accident occuring.

i am not in favor of involving park officials or anything like that w/o some serious discussion by both sides of the table and a VERY clear understanding of what each side would be responsible for.

toby wilson

10-19-2006, 12:34 PM

..........

tomstock

10-19-2006, 01:20 PM

inferno

10-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Question is, what in the world can we ever agree on?

simple....
if its blowing 25 from the east, we ride at EB

we all basically agree on that
:lol:

Skyway Scott

10-19-2006, 02:51 PM

look at the guy w/o a leash on saturday.. he is a great kiter.. his kite got away twice.. flew through the beach with children playing on it.. .

I realize I am not there anymore and I have stayed out of this thread (til now). To a large extent it is of less consequence to me now and I am more focussed on protecting areas around here now (pretty easy to do). I also realize how close to impossible consensus is, in some areas, anyway.

I don't know who that "great' kiter is mentioned above, but IMO, he is a crappy rider for jeopardizing your guys spot... twice in one day? whatta joke. Did anyone talk to him? Or is he so "great" he is somehow above the "common sense/courtesy" agreements that most of you indeed agree on (because they are so obvious and common sense oriented, such as use of a leash?)

Getting overly nervous about noobs and ignoring that particular situation (if that's what happened) is way off. I basically agree with Brian is my statement. I am curious how you guys intend to handle (if at all) the above, quoted scenario.

bryanleighty

10-19-2006, 03:10 PM

simple....
if its blowing 25 from the east, we ride at EB

we all basically agree on that
:lol:

lassing baby.. lassing.

inferno

10-19-2006, 03:14 PM

simple....
if its blowing 25 from the east, we ride at EB

we all basically agree on that
:lol:

lassing baby.. lassing.
man
we cant even agree on that!!!!!!

BigR

10-19-2006, 03:23 PM

inferno wrote:

simple....
if its blowing 25 from the east, we ride at EB

we all basically agree on that

lassing baby.. lassing.

man
we cant even agree on that!!!!!!

Thats right!

If its blowing from the East Then the Skyway REALLY SUCKS!

Stay away from Skyway and goto lassing or EB instead on an easterly!

LOL! :lol:

shogun1204

10-19-2006, 03:32 PM

Well I think it does not hurt at all to get a Certification card. I am a noob, but I want to fit in as much as possible. I have made some great friends and if I have to get a certification card to keep riding then I am in.

Hey Steve,
I was talking to Toby and he said that you could show me what I need to do to get my card. PM me when you get a chance.

Eagle

10-19-2006, 07:00 PM

Inviting the park, or any sort of authority to regulate our sport is a bad idea for our area IMO. We already have too much government intrusion into our lives; let’s keep the govt out of our sport.
We have been fortunate to have for the most part unrestricted access to all the beaches in our area. Let’s try to use some common sense and work together to protect our access. I am sure that most will agree that rules established by US will be more palatable than rules established by THEM.

I do support the idea of establishing some common courtesy rules and etiquette at the crowded launch sites for the sake of everyone’s safety. There is strength in numbers, and if the majority of us agree to establish some civilized order at the crowded riding spots it will be much easier to enforce as a group rather than one or two concerned riders.

Regarding a certification, if you are a competent rider without a card, catch me at the beach and I will confirm your level and issue you an IKO card. I would do this for free, however the cards aren't, so for $5 its yours.

tomstock

10-19-2006, 08:35 PM

toby wilson

10-19-2006, 09:03 PM

..............

BigR

10-21-2006, 02:59 AM

First- the only way the county would be involved would be to keep a logbook of who is riding in Ft. Desoto at the office. A ONE TIME per season registration would provide them with a signed waiver of liability and emergency contact info. I have ridden with all of you for years, but if anyone of you got hurt, I wouldnt have a clue who to call. NONE of us would. We all have each others cell numbers in our phone, which is fairly useless in an emergency situation. Let's be prepared..

Second- I have suggested kiters insurance for LIABILITY purposes only. Is 89.00 per year too much for peace of mind? Suppose no leash guy at the Skyway had his kite go into the road and caused an accident? His liability ins. would cover it. What if it decapitated someones child with his kite lines? Wouldnt you feel better knowing that the childs family would at least get something for their loss? You guys all spend 2000 or more per season on new gear, and you dont have 89.00?

These are exactly the rules for bieng allowed to ride at Crandon Park, Miami. Except that you missed one. Over there they also Make you wear a helmet in addition to signing in at the park office B 4 U go kiting and having insurance + IKO cert.

Wolfie

10-21-2006, 07:00 AM

Don't they also make you use a leash? The helmet is a good idea (I wear one always), but if I was king at least the leash would be manditory.

tomstock

10-21-2006, 07:39 AM

toby wilson

10-21-2006, 08:17 AM

.........

BigR

10-21-2006, 10:02 AM

I know that the rules and regulations really worked out well for the school in Miami since they worked out a monopoly for kiting at Crandon Park with the rangers.

I'm sure that it would work out similarly well over here and make money just like they did in Crandon.

:roll:

http://www.miamikiteboarding.com/New%20Rules%20for%20Crandon.htm

http://www.miamikiteboarding.com/

:roll:

bryanleighty

10-21-2006, 03:53 PM

tom you are 100% right.. no one said anything (that i know of).. and i am not going to let that happen again for myself.. i was trying to work out the right thing to say in my mind but he got back in the water and was gone..

i personally have forgot to buckle my kite leash a couple times and i have been called out on it (Ebone!) and i seriously appreciate his sharp eyes for catching my mistake.

i guess i have heard a few "go f**K yourself" stories and im the no-confrontational type.

no more..

and yes.. i usually have an extra leash in my car.. i would suggest that everyone should grab a second leash and have ti with them incase someone might need to borrow it..
get some sort of collateral so no one forgets to trade back...etc..

Optionryder420

10-21-2006, 05:00 PM

Did my post get deleted or did I just not post it?

What rules did I violate with my post so I can be sure not to do it again.

tomstock

10-21-2006, 08:10 PM

Eagle

10-22-2006, 02:56 AM

Did my post get deleted or did I just not post it?

What rules did I violate with my post so I can be sure not to do it again.

Kev I can say that I know nothing about a post of yours getting deleted. Deleting of a post should be few and far between, unless you resort to spam, playground tactics and name calling there really shouldn't be any deleting.

Regarding the official rules here, I didn't make them up but they appear to be pretty simple:

Do not advertise outside of [COM] Forums.
Do not show disrespect for others in your postings.
Users can be denied access to this Site without warning.
FKA, Inc., it’s officers and moderators are not responsible
for the content of the postings and any links or pictures posted.

I know that the rules and regulations really worked out well for the school in Miami since they worked out a monopoly for kiting at Crandon Park with the rangers.

I am no Crandon Park expert, but from what I know of the situation, it actually worked out well for the local kiteboarders who are limited in beaches to kite at in the area. Kiteboarding was banned at that park and it took the proactive measures by concerned kiteboarders to negotiate with the park to allow access. Maybe Rick will shed some light on the past and present situation at Crandon in order to clear up any biased opinion and rumor.

The real issue for us locally is preventing access restrictions and bans BEFORE they occur. This should be simple to achieve if the majority agree upon, respect and adhere to reasonable and common sense based guidelines and order among the kiteboarding community.

Nobody likes "rules", however I do believe our rules will be more in our favor and interests than Pinellas County (DeSoto) or the FDOT (Skyway) rules or outright bans on kiteboarding.

mermaid

10-22-2006, 09:38 AM

One other thing occurs ot me at least in reading here. While most of us agree there should be some kind of regulation in kiting, you have a bunch of people who may kite regularly (not even visitors) that don't read the boards or even realize that access may be restricted. I would commend all of us for making the community what it is, however even if you have concurrence here, the ones that really need to know probably aren't reading this, and most likely won't have the same "investment" in our spots. I was talking with a co-worker and he said at TI a while ago some guy was trying to learn on his own and slamming his kite down everywhere, he said that seemed really stupid. It is that kind of person we need to reach out to and encourage to become a part of the kiting culture here in TampaBay and beyond.

I definitely know if and when I decide if I am brave enough, I wouldn't go it alone.

Optionryder420

10-22-2006, 12:25 PM

I may have just not hit the submit button and exited out without realizing it, but I guess my post could've fallen into the catagory of disrespect (IE profanity.) Sorry if that was the case.

But I was just stating I don't want ANY officials involved in our rules at East Beach. The only way we should need to establish rules is if there IS an outright ban and we need rules to get the place back.

Don't mess around with mentioning anything to the rangers because that'll just get us in more trouble.

It's more of a don't ask don't tell policy, we need to better self police ourselves.

toby wilson

10-22-2006, 01:06 PM

..............

BigR

10-22-2006, 01:06 PM

ricki

10-22-2006, 01:52 PM

I am no Crandon Park expert, but from what I know of the situation, it actually worked out well for the local kiteboarders who are limited in beaches to kite at in the area. Kiteboarding was banned at that park and it took the proactive measures by concerned kiteboarders to negotiate with the park to allow access. Maybe Rick will shed some light on the past and present situation at Crandon in order to clear up any biased opinion and rumor.

You can take my word, I have been kiting there since 1996. The sites in miami are all under constant threat of closing from officials. That county park was led into a "relationship" that was exclusive to an entity. The other kiteboarders in the area that didn't agree said " $#@! " this and now kite elsewhere like matheson hammock

Raul, what the hell are you talking about?

I've spent several hundred hours of my time over many years trying to preserve access at a place that I ride at maybe once a year and before less than that. This includes traveling hours across two counties to numerous meetings with officials to negotiate the means of maintain access. A hundred faxes, emails, group meetings, advisories, finding insurance, losing it after a few years, working up a solution and making it stick, preparing and negotiating guidelines in the hopes that it might work this time. There was more than this of course. We lost it quite a few times and it took talking and a fair amount of work to restore it each time.

All this time and effort was donated by me not to make money but to try to preserve access. Failing money a bit of respect and regard would be appreciated. I will admit I am out of touch currently, the manager has changed again and for what I know things are still moving forward. So, I'm going to stay out of it until and if things start to show signs of distress again.

Make sure you know what you are talking about and more critically, who you are insulting.

tomstock

10-22-2006, 07:04 PM

toby wilson

10-22-2006, 07:36 PM

..........

tomstock

10-22-2006, 07:43 PM

Cborges

10-22-2006, 08:25 PM

Geeeeeez.. :shock: whenever I launch my kite..that means I want to ride...chattin on the beach to amp your egos ..is soooooo lame...show the shizzle on Z water...actions DO speak louder...show me the dizzle on the water and get off the beach bitches...if your not launchin or landin....your FIRED...have some respect...remember that word..if not look it up!We all have this one thing in common...let it bring us together and not by tangling our lines...

Big G

10-22-2006, 09:09 PM

Finally,
Someone speaks up that makes sense-izzle. Thanks for clearing things up... for shizzle!

kite-4-life

10-25-2006, 02:39 PM

123

toby wilson

10-25-2006, 06:18 PM

.........

tomstock

10-26-2006, 10:08 AM

The most important thing I've learned from kiteboarding is that kiteboarders cannot self regulate. They will get banned, and then move on to ride somewhere else until they are banned there too. How many people have tried to regain access at Howard Park beach? I know, there are other places to ride... and there always will be... until all of the good spots are gone.

Face it, we will kill our own sport.

There is a constant supply young egos which makes it impossible to agree on anything or do anything to protect our sport.

I gave up a long time ago when I tried to help "protect our image". We had some journalists hanging out on our forum collecting info for magazine articles when suddenly a civil war errupted ... I tried to filter it out by moderating posts and well you can see how well that worked out. I finally had to shut it down before everyone ended up enemies. That was just a forum.. imagine trying to enforce rules on a beach!

So my conclusion is, why bother. It's like bailing water from a river. There is an endless supply of people who just don't want to agree on anything or who will just ignore the rules.

At one point I wanted to be an instructor and teach people to kiteboard... then I realized that the faster our sport takes off, the quicker we will loose our favorite spots. Is making money on kiteboarding worth loosing our spots? I'd rather work a 9-5 job and have a place to ride than spend a couple of years cranking out students only to have our spots over crowded or lost altogether.

Kiteboarding will not be regulated until it's banned. Don't worry, it'll happen soon.

Wolfie

10-26-2006, 10:57 AM

Just 2 more of my cents:

1) Is that Liability insurance is very important in any dangerous to semi-dangerous sport. Not just for the help it provides in keeping "the man" off our back. But, more so in saving you yourself from paying for an accident for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. I don't think it matters if you are very well off or dirt poor. Either way with out some liability protection your ass is very much on the line for the rest of your life.

2) Though I'm not so much for forced regulation. I don't see why people are so against at least having an open line of communication with the Desoto people. Is it fear that even talking to them will have bad consequences? From what I gather they are happy with us being out there. Why not have a line of communication with them?[/u]

bryanleighty

10-26-2006, 11:11 AM

guys.. friends.. fellow kite addicts..

Lets not let this thread turn sour.

It has been a long time since I've seen attitude on this board and I think its childish and unacceptable. Keep obviously personal issues off the public threads. Debate is encouraged, sh*t slinging is not.

While I don't agree entirely with Tom's point of view on the forecast of where we are heading.. it's not helping if a good thread with good (and differing) points of view are brought forward turns completely negative.

I am not taking sides or calling anyone out.. just be adults about this stuff.

None of us want to have limits put on our fun. But with the growing number of people that are getting into the sport, some sort of regulation will have to be done. And its going to be on our terms or someone else's ....

Decisions we make as a group today might protect our favorite kiting spots for years to come.

I think we should call a meeting at a local restaurant and get as many of us to come down with ideas and just talk about this stuff. If you have facts and figures or examples .. bring em all! ..

tomstock

10-26-2006, 12:11 PM

The problem with forums is that they are all talk.

bryanleighty

10-26-2006, 12:38 PM

ya, but you gotta get a good, full conversation going to ensure that all sides are spoken for.

funny thing to me is that is that i know that we are all in agreement on so much of this stuff and we argue over the tiny little details.

i think the first step is that if everyone makes a conscious effort to do their best to go talk to people that are or look to be about to do something unsafe.

it does not happen all the time.. on a busy day there are tons of people out that are all fine kiters and we all might kite a little close to shore or maybe lay our lines out when we should be wrapping them up..

but..

if you see a rider about to launch a kite incorrectly or in an unsafe manner, you should go over and start up a conversation.

I've seen this done with great success.

If you see someone riding without a leash.. do what you can to get them a leash to borrow...

small step for man. giant double kiteloop for a kiteboarder

amber

10-26-2006, 12:51 PM

well put Bryan. Thanks.

tomstock

10-26-2006, 01:30 PM

Well, hopefully that's what anyone with some common sense would be doing already. I know it's something I've been doing since I started riding.

As for rules (insurance, launch/land area, helmets, leashes, cert cards) good luck. The only way it's going to ever happen is if the parks get involved, otherwise there is no enforcement.

The leash is a good example. Some lost a kite 2 or 3 times because they weren't using a leash. Obviously someone helped them recover this lost kite, and probably helped them launch again a second and third time.

bryanleighty

10-26-2006, 02:17 PM

agreed 100% tom..

and tho i didnt relaunch the guy.. i didnt say anything either..
and i'm not going to let that happen again w/o trying to see if i can offer to help out.

some might not respond to help as well as others.. but i think most just honestly forget or they are new and dont know better...

ive said my piece.

here's a shout out to good winds coming up and a great party this weekend!

after the winds from Monday afternoon I am AMPED to get out and ride. its been MONTHS of sea breezes and light winds.. gimme 25+ baby..

tomstock

10-26-2006, 02:28 PM

Well, next time if I'm there, come get me and we'll both walk over and have a chat if someone needs it ... maybe a few more will come along to make it clear we are serious and not just trying to be assholes on our own.

Kiteboarding Tampa Bay

04-14-2011, 07:57 AM

we have already been kicked out of other state parks for not dealing with issues. If there is a problem, it would be good to plan to tackle it in the most effective way feasible.

What steve described is an approach being used or considered for other designated launches with existing problems. These launches are on both private and public property. In time, as access is threatened in other areas, this approach may expand, ideally based upon need.

Is it right for ft. Desoto? That is up to you to decide or more likely leaders among you. Building consensus is important as is action, when and where it is needed. Good luck, you guys have a great thing in desoto, it is worth working to maintain access.

An article largely from a park manager's perspective appears in "parks and recreation" at:
http://www.fksa.org/viewforum.php?f=95

bump

FloridaBoarder

04-15-2011, 10:40 AM

From scanning through and reading everyones post it looks like some thing has to happen to insure that the riding spots stay open. I think that Tom, Bryan, Josh, Steve and SOME others have valid points.

Some of the riders have positive things to say and others just want to immediately shoot others down. Some want to over regulate when others want there to be little to no regulation.

I RESPECT all of it.

The last time I was at EB I had a kiter slam there kite in front of me and I rode right through the middle of there kite. I felt bad bc there kite was wrecked but at the same time I was upset that the beach has gotten so over crowed and unsafe.

Whats the answer?

There has to be a balance between having regulation and not having to pay when you want to go and ride at a public park.

Get a board of people that want to volunteer there time to set regulations and then have the riders of the area vote on what they think is right through online forums.

BigR

04-15-2011, 07:06 PM

I have my own private beach

WatersportsWest

04-15-2011, 10:05 PM

http://paullangphotography.com/2008/09/06/etiquette-why-you-need-to-be-a-responsible-kiteboarder/

ricki

04-15-2011, 10:45 PM

Steve, I just put it up per your request. I didn't see it until now. As far as childish games, I don't play any and don't plan to tolerate much here. I hope you folks secure access over your way. It is a group project with no one individual or few individuals having much hope of success on their own speaking from personal experience. Consensus building is what it is about. It is easy to say but folks need to focus on the problem, a short list of solutions and make it happen. Splintering into factions will likely defeat such efforts as readily as more wide spread indifference we experience on this coast. Good luck.

p.s. - Paul did put forward some good ideas in his article. I would pass it around and talk about it.