what's up with hobbie?

[bigkite]

...

[ricki]

When did this begin?
mclavero82@hotmail.com

You're kidding right? It started over ten years ago, countless kiteboarders begged for something like this to be forced down their throats. Ignoring simple rules, accidents, incidents, kites and kiters flying inland.

ALL we had to do was mainly to ride outside the buoys AND to compel other kiters to do the same. This has been repeated countless times here, in meetings and at the beach. Way too few of us thought it was worth bothering with.

This never happened at Hobie worse some of the most experienced among us rode feet off the shore routinely, some even told off deputies and the Causeway authority. Telling someone to F off or words to that effect to an authority you know is suffering serious heartburn with poor kiter behavior is really dumb. Instructors teaching students inside the bouys, ignoring bans on unlicensed commerce and common sense. How many in the community reacted to bring these folks in line to protect their access? Way too few, it didn't have to be this way.

Stepping up to look out for your access tactfully and legally is becoming less of an option. Educate kiters, self-police and take care of business. LOTS of launches do this in other parts of the country it has been a more rare thing here. We're running out of launches so pay someone to mind our business for us at a couple of concessions or take on some responsibility like concerned people in the community ourselves.

[ricki]

http://www.fksa.org/albums/album597/No_Kitesurfing_Hobbie_Beach_sign_rules.jpg http://www.fksa.org/albums/album597/No_Kitesurfing_Hobbie_Beach_sign.jpg

Bruno sent these images around. I was down in Key West for the paddleboard competition and just learned of the posting of signs last night on the way home.

We have been warned so many times, too few of us tried to self-police. We were told months back the site would be posted. It would have been outstanding if the deputies had done more policing themselves but we were told early that likely would not happen. It was left up to us. Many areas around the state don't have problems like this. There may be lower numbers or more likely local riders self-police, something we need to do routinely.

We met with the authorities many times including a number of times within the last year. A reasonable set of rules were worked out posted here and in other places on the Internet. I am two counties away so I hope riders pushed it at the beach where it counts the most. This result suggests that we didn't work at it effectively enough.

Preserving access shouldn't be that hard. Usually there are a very few rules needed to do this. If we ignore our responsibility of helping to keep things going we can only blame ourselves in the end. In an ideal world someone else should take care of this, but it isn't that way and many of us knew this.

So, pull together to try to preserve what little is left in Miami or drive to a managed concession. Other areas more to the north and south should take note. Keeping things going shouldn't be that hard but you need to go at it as a group.

In many areas in SE Florida but not all, the MAIN thing needed is to KITE OUTSIDE THE SWIM ZONE BUOYS!

[cabdriver]

There is a 1:1 relationship between the IQ of the rider at Hobie and the distance in M that they ride from the beach. This is why the beach is closed. I and many others spent hours and hours in meetings, trying to rally people together to follow a few simple rules.

To put it in perspective, it's like having a road with a curb and sidewalk and the only rule is to not drive over the curb and on the sidewalk... At Hobie, most riders drove on the sidewalk!!!

It also doesn't help that guys like Lubo (paddleboarding concession) were super annoyed that many instructors were teaching at Hobie Beach without a concession while he had to pay concession fees to be there for his paddling business. Nobody is happier about the beach closure than Lubo.

I find it interesting that in an ironic twist, the winds blew like stink out of the West yesterday just as the signs were hammered into the ground on Friday.

South Beach, Bill Baggs, Hobie Beach, Rickenbacher, Virginia Key... The list of banned riding spots keeps growing in Miami. This is a wake up call. We do not have the "right" to go kiting. We must cooperate and act in an organized manner in order to maintain access.

[tonykite]

Went to Hobbie today to try these new awesome kite boards! $550 complete 2011!
and couldn't because of this new rules on the hobbie beach signs.

What's up with this? When did this begin?

Regards,

mclavero82@hotmail.com

Bigkite, I understand you want to show your boards by any mean but the pic you are posting is actually quite representative of the reasons why we have been banned. As this is a public forum, please take it out. I don't think we need this kind of publicity these days.

[ricki]

Sorry BigKite, I tried to call you on the two numbers that I could find to discuss this but had no luck. Still, Tonykite has a point, this site is monitored by folks in the public sector. We don't want to make a bad situation worse.

[japott]

Went to Hobbie today to try these new awesome kite boards! $550 complete 2011!
and couldn't because of this new rules on the hobbie beach signs.

What's up with this? When did this begin?

Regards,

mclavero82@hotmail.com


There's clearly a designated place on this forum to sell stuff yet this sales pitch/pics show up in 5 or 6 different threads that have nothing to do with selling stuff. I bet as soon as someone tries to enforce this the next post will be; " Whats's up with this, When did this begin? I can't sell my stuff any anywhere I want on a public forum that someone took the time to setup and organize?"

If you thought about it you probaly can figure out exactly why kite boarders mess things up and loose access to public places.

[kent]

I can't believe that anyone is surprised by this closing. Look at any thread about Hobie and tell me you didn't see it coming. There are really a handful of people that were directly responsible for this and a very large handful of locals that simply left the "enforcement" to a few of us that care about access at this location.

Teaching and riding close are the two largest offenses at Hobie. The management there asked all of us many times to police ourselves. We put their request of via this forum and others, but anyone trying to protect the area genarally got bashed.

Do you think Patrick's photos of the idiot riding on the inside were too harsh now? We should have left them up and fired the idiots that couldn't control themselves.

For those of you that are so against the rules of Matheson and Crandon, I guess you can see now why they are needed. It's just too bad that Hobie wasn't viable financially so that someone could have taken control and managed the area before this happened.

I agree that the stuff Big Kite put up with the "fingers" toward the county are exactly the type of actions that put us in this position. We all need to learn to ride "right" and act "right". The majority of us are not hot heads and idiots, but posts like Big Kites and others make us look like meat heads. As Rick and I know, park management often look at these sites for info on our sports...

[OttoNP]

I hope you all don't give up silently access to this beach. You tried to work it our with the city/county, now that they banned it, what's next? It seems like a lawsuit may be in order to get access back and force the city to police it themselves...

The city can not logically expect the community to police itself when the members lack the authority to enforce the rules. Now that it has gone past that, the law abiding responsible kiters are paying the price due to the city's failure to control the problematic kiters. I agree we should do what we can as a community, but some people just don't listen and beating them up, taking their kites, etc... is not something the community can legally do. Kiteboarding are paying tax citizens as well and simply banning kiting is not an acceptable solution, do not accept it as such!! At some point the city has to do their freaking job and use the authority that they have (not us) to stop the reckless ones and allow others to continue to have access.

[kent]

Otto,

I'm not sure that you understand the situation exactly.

2 points:

#1: We met with cswy management several times to try to resolve the situation. They encouraged us to "self" police and gave us every opportunity to do so. I must say that we didn't get much support from anyone else to help in this effort. Aside from ASM, Rick, and a very small local riding group, everyone just thought that it would handle itself. The kite gypsy's kept teaching and idiots kept riding and jumping inside the marks. Management had no other choice but to enforce the rules. Had they left it as it was, something bad was bound to happen. This likely would have lead to other venues being closed as well.

#2: There really wasn't any new law or rule made banning us from the cswy. The cswy is simply a right of way and nothing else. The ONLY responsibility that management has to the community with respect to this piece of land is keeping access to transportation open. Furthermore, unless an activity is "expressly permitted", it is prohibited. Kitesurfing has never been expressly permitted, but was generally allowed as long as it didn't negatively affect the right of way, permitted cswy vendors, or endanger beach goers. Unfortunately, we were unable to control our actions and despite numerous opportunities for our community to come together, we failed.

The unfortunate part is that no one took this seriously until the closure. Just look back on this forum for about the last 5 years to see how many times we took the topic to task. Neither Adventure Sports nor Rick got much support in maintaining access on the cswy. Sadly, it is not even attractive for a vendor to apply for a permit similar to Matheson or Crandon as SW - W winds are very rare and the site is not suitable for instruction. Additionally, permits have already been given to vendors for kayak and sup rentals. I don't see that we have any real viable options to regain access at this venue anytime soon.

For now, I can assure you that Miami Beach is on the block as are potentially Crandon and Matheson. What can we do? I don't ride at Miami Beach much, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't tolerate anyone teaching at this beach as it is too crowded to teach safely. Riders also need to ride farther offshore and take care to stay away from swimmers.

At Crandon and Matheson, local riders need to abide by the rules and help to enforce them. Matheson is pretty much under control as the venue is quite small. Crandon on the other hand is often far out of control and I don't see many locals helping MKB to enforce the guidelines. It's everyone's beach regardless of who has a permit to do business there. We would all benefit to help both ASM and MKB to avoid accidents and maintain access. Next time you see someone riding too close to the beach and you find yourself quite, recognize that you are the problem.

My 2 cents...

[OttoNP]

I'm talking about the beach... The sign references Miami-DADE, indicating they are the ones prohibiting kiteboarding there. I agree that kiting community should try to work with the city, county, whoever, but once it gets to the point where they actually institute a ban I think that is when action needs to be taken to show that the responsible kiters will not go silently in the night. Self-policing only works if the community is small and tight, I have seen it on forums again and again. As more and more people get involved, it breaks down because other than peer pressure we have no legal authority to enfore the rules.

You say "I don't ride at Miami Beach much, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't tolerate anyone teaching at this beach" I'm curious what you would do to stop it?

I do speak up when I see others do dangerous things, break the rules, etc... Most of the time they did not know and my telling them helps, but some of them don't care and continue on. Short of refusing to launch them, I'm not going to start cutting lines or starting fights, which is what it would take to stop some of these idiots. I have seen people refused a lunch just self launch themselves, the truth of the matter is the problem kiters are usually quite good at kiting. At some point, for the people that don't listen that are the problem, the authorities, that are funded by us as tax payers need to get involved.

Do drivers of boats, cars, planes, self police? No, because at some point is it just not possible anymore and that is the state of affairs at many kiteboarding spots. My suggestion is that the kiteboarding community take a stand that we will try to self police, but an outright ban is out of the question, and if self policing does not work the city/county needs to do their job.

[kent]

Otto,

Peer pressure does work to some extent. In truth, this problem really has less to do with those that don't know the rules, and has more to do with showing off. To discourage lessons being taught in areas that are no acceptable, informing arriving students that the location is really not suitable for learning goes a long way. This has worked successfully in other areas for sure.

There is no beach on the Cswy. The sign is from the parks because they manage "permitted" activities (which kiteboarding is not), but the authority is under the D.O.T. The only reason that it took so long to enforce is that the rules come from the county, but enforcement is under the jurisdiction of the city. (Rick can probably speak to this more that I can.)

Additionally, how on earth do you propose that we would all ride "better"? I agree that if the marks were exclusion zones that prohibited all other activities other than wading and swimming we may have a foot to stand on, but the marks are "no motor" zones.

Why would our local government want to take on enforcement of this activity? They don't make a penny from it and it exposes them to potential liability? Our taxes only go so far and our actions thus far make us pretty unattractive.

A bit more friendly enforcement from local riders would have gone a long way toward education. It doesn't have to be as aggressive as surf breaks around the country, but it does have to exist at some level. I'm not sure that we really want to rely solely on our government deciding how and when to enforce safe riding guidelines.

Thus far, most of our local community acts like kiteboarding is a rite. We would all best be served if we recognize that it is actually a privilege.

If I thought that we could sell ourselves to management and prove that we would only use the cswy as a launching and landing zone to ride well offshore, I'd be right there with you. I just don't know how we could commit this to the authorities. I'm all open to good ideas that won't jeopardize our access to other locations and that won't focus the spot light on our sport any further.

[kent]

ps. boats, planes, and cars all pay license fees adn receive certifications to some level to participate. Until we have our government provide permits to ride, we may be out of luck.

In short, I'm totally on your side as I used the cswy in all wind directions due to the fact that I use a raceboard 90% of the time. It's tragic that this ban had to happen, however I recognize the fact that it wasn't going to end well for us if we continued on the same path as we were on.

[OttoNP]

I think everyone here is on the same side and wants to preserve access, I'm just saying that perhaps taking the stance that kiteboarding is in fact a right and demanding that first and foremost access must be maintained could be a possible strategy with city/county. I want to eliminate a "ban" from the list of possiblilies a city/county is considering. I'm not sure how best to do that, there is typical writing officials, etc... as well as more drastic courses with lawsuits, etc...

[ricki]

The trouble is kiteboarding is not a right, far from it, it is a privilege. There is a tremendous amount of history and negotiation involved with trying to maintain kiting at Hobie. It goes back TEN years. The means of keeping the place open were presented then and many times since then. Kiters roundly ignored them. Also, everyone is not on the same side to preserve access. There were a few very experienced kiters who deliberately rode in a way that would take access away. They knew it, were warned, but ultimately they succeeded and we all lost. They didn't take the threat seriously or perhaps didn't really care either way?! Kent, Todd, myself and others have been negotiating with authorities for many years. Some reasonable accords were reached regarding Hobie, basically to stay outside the swim zone buoys and to curtail unlicensed, illegal instruction, we ignored this and so we were shut down. If peer pressure had been stronger and applied by far more kiters in the local community this might not have come to pass. It is in some areas, just not here.

[OttoNP]

The trouble is kiteboarding is not a right, far from it, it is a privilege.

This is the sentiment that I think we should change. Kiteboarding, access to the wind and ocean, is an undeniable right for every human being. No one should be allowed to deny anyone access to the world's oceans or the air we breathe. I would accept that if a person endangers others, that person can be jailed, banned, fined, etc... but another person that does not can not be denied access. The government is charged by its people to manage natural resources. Banning a resource from use it not managing it!!! The approach is that we should be self policing to avoid government regulations or restrictions and if self policing fails then we have to succumb to some government involvement (rules, fines, etc...), but never ever an outright ban.

Once a ban is imposed I think more drastic measure should occur, including maybe a "kiting protest" where many people show up and kite responsible. Or, if you wanted less conflict, maybe you don't kite but get a bunch of kiters to show up and clean up the beach, and keep doing that publicly involving the media until you get access back. If that fails to restore access, then it seems like the industry or a group should file a lawsuit. These days lawsuits seem to have large effects on cities...

It seems like we are a bunch of kids asking to play on someone's elses playground when we should be acting like adults demanding our tax dollars are spent serving us.

[greg meintjes]

Reading about the ban and reasons behind bans, I was just looking at the last video posted in the section "photo of the day" Here is a question , would this be regarded as responsible behaviour , and if so why is this responsible and different from some of the riding actions that have caused problems at other locations around the country and world. The video is of riding etc over memorial day with ASM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28Wasxylc0&feature=player_embedded

Greg

[lawless]

"Kiteboarding, access to the wind and ocean, is an undeniable right..."

This is true, but the access to the land in order to access the water is a privilege. This is where they have control to limit access.

If you take a boat out and water launch you won't have a problem, but how realistic is that for most people?

The main problem down there seems to be a very limited number of launch areas so problems are localized.